Research Missing DOD or DOB for League players (AFL)

[GreyCrow]

Updated 12 October 2020


6 *Desmond 'Des' Clyde Bell b:23/5/1923 Melb 1946-1948 alive in 2016

13 *Alfred Joseph Callick b:14/8/1925 SthMelb 1943,1946-1950 alive in 2016
36 *Gordon Stanley Green b:31/5/1925 NthMelb 1942 alive in 2017
68 *James "Jim" Malone b:13/11/1925 NthMelb 1945-52 still living as of March 29 2018


11 Henry "Harry" John Brown b:16/10/1903 St Kilda 1927
12 Samuel Otto John Buck b:15/11/1876 Carlton 1897
18 Jack Louis Cliff b:23/5/1919 StK 1940-42
21 Eugene Francis "Frank" Corby b:24/12/1924 Coll:1948
22 Frederick "Fred" Rowland Coulsell b:17/12/1905 Nth:1927,Ess 1931
23 Robert "Bobby" Ritchie Craig b:29/3/1882 Melb 1902
33 James "Jimmy" Gaynor b:17/5/1877 Carl 1904
34 Maxwell "Max" Herbert Glass b:2/10/1925 Sth 1945
39 Roger"Bill" Musgrove Hearn b:4/3/1914 Rich 1935
40 Edward "Ted" Page Heffernan b:16/5/1869 Carl 1897
49 Charles "Charlie" Herbert Jenkins b:17/6/1878 Fitz 1898


54 Edmund Kirwin b:31/3/1876 StKilda 1898
59 William "Billy" Francis Roy Leahy b:7/3/1911 Foots 1934-1936
60 Thomas "Tom" Francis Lee b:11/12/1874 Coll 1897-98
63 George Lockwood b:6/12/1872 Geel 1899-1901,Coll 1902-04
71 John "Joe" Albert Marchant b:11/9/1884 StKilda 1904
72 Joseph "Joe" Thomas Marr b:9/08/1880 Carlton1900-02, Ess:1903 Died Prior 1918
74 Charlie McCartney b:26/2/1874 SthMelb 1897,Ess 1899

76 Patrick "Paddy" John McDonald b:27/3/1897 Ess 1918-19
78 John "Jack" James McKenzie b:19/8/1908 Ess 1929
84 Alfred "Alf" Carl Frank Neeson b:15/6/1914 Fitz 1935-36, Haw 1936-38
87 Michael "Mick" Joseph O'Hagan b:22/1/1878 StK 1897
88 *George Henry Prismall b:10/3/1915 Ess 1935
89 *Robert "Bob" Reid b:8/6/1924 Footscray 1948-49
90 Samuel "Sam" Alexander Reid b:17/6/1872 Carlton 1897
94 Archibald Robinson b:9/7/1890 Richmond 1911
95 Raymond Paul Ross b:2/5/1900 Ess 1921
97 Alan James "Ginger" Ryan b:26/9/1909 Melb 1932-33,Coll 1934-38
103 James "Jim" William Smith b:11/2/1887 Sth 1906

110 James "Jim" Scott Sutherland b:10/5/1900 Sth 1924
116 *Albert "Alby" Joseph Williams b:3/8/1916 NthMelb 1943
117 William "Billy" Francis Williams b:2/5/1888 StKilda 1907
118 William "Bill" Henry Woods b:21/8/1890 Geelong 1909

7 *Ronald "Ron" Arthur Bickley b:21/10/1926 - 11/10/2020 Fitz 1949-1951
52 *Geoffrey John Kerr b:7/4/1925 Stk 1945;1947 26/5/2020

32 *Harry Leslie "Les" Gardner b:30/9/1923 StK 1947 alive 2014 passed away May 2019
53 *James "Jim" Francis Kirby b:21/12/1922 NthM 1946 passed away 24/8/1998 #post 796

75 *James "Jim" Kenneth McDonald b:24/6/1916 Melb 1942 To Be Confirmed
105 *Stanley Vincent Smith b:17/4/1925 Coll 1947-50 - listed in AFL Obits

James William McDonald has the same relationship as Alan - from the List Inaccuracy Thread #post 2450


Ron Bickley passed away - Recent Deaths post # 307

Research - Recent Deaths

Forgot to mention Richard Doggett - RFC 1980 Premiership General Manager passed away last week. As well, Col H advised that David Hinchcliffe died 27/9/2020 They found his birth notice in the Geelong Heritage Centre newspaper archive. It is actually 12 Jan 1939, not 12 Jan 1938

www.bigfooty.com

 

[ThePope]

Llew Owens died on 1 Jan 2018. 5 games for Fitzroy in 1947, 2 for South Melb in 1951. Brisbane death notice. Also Edi-Asp FC

 

[ThePope]

I think I've found a few more that aren't in AustralianFootball.com (Oliver Gigacz):

From Collingwood Forever:

• Alan McGowan 7 August 1926 − 4 October 2019
• Roy Williams 3 March 1929 – 29 May 1988
• Jack Hickey 13 December 1930 – 13 September 2018

For Hickey, there is a lot of confusion online that he was also the John Hickey who was Club president in the 1970s. But the Pres died in 2009, and was 10 years older.

From other sources:

• Frank Sutherland 12 December 1929 – 16 March 1988. 21 Games in 1950–52 for St Kilda.
  • Found an Ancestry page that matches the DOB and place of birth. Moved the Surfers Paradice in the 1960s according to electoral records, which is why St Kilda may have lost track of him.
• Terry O'Mara 24 February 1941 - 13 Aug 1998. 20 games in 1963–65 for Fitzroy.
  • Can't corroborate this one. A single edit user added the DOD and place of death of Sunbury to the Wikipedia page in 2017. Nothing in Ryerson, nor Ancestry. But there is a headstone pic on BillionGraves. A son Brett is listed, and searching for "Brett O'Mara Sunbury" does find quite a few sporting results. The daughter Kerrie-Lee appears to have a family tree on Geni. Might be something the AFL/Bris Lions could follow up.
• Warren Prest 9 December 1932 - 6 Feb 2008. 3 games for Ess in 1955-56
  • Death notice with the age about right, St Bernards newsletter notice (next to the Madden brothers' mother's notice), but nothing definite to link him to the footballer. No cemetery record that I can find, and Col Hutchinson was looking for him in the record this year (page 18 Can you help), so definitely one we should pass onto the AFL.

 

[Oliver G]

I think I've found a few more that aren't in AustralianFootball.com (Oliver Gigacz):

From Collingwood Forever:

• Alan McGowan 7 August 1926 − 4 October 2019
• Roy Williams 3 March 1929 – 29 May 1988
• Jack Hickey 13 December 1930 – 13 September 2018

For Hickey, there is a lot of confusion online that he was also the John Hickey who was Club president in the 1970s. But the Pres died in 2009, and was 10 years older.

From other sources:

• Frank Sutherland 12 December 1929 – 16 March 1988. 21 Games in 1950–52 for St Kilda.
  • Found an Ancestry page that matches the DOB and place of birth. Moved the Surfers Paradice in the 1960s according to electoral records, which is why St Kilda may have lost track of him.
• Terry O'Mara 24 February 1941 - 13 Aug 1998. 20 games in 1963–65 for Fitzroy.
  • Can't corroborate this one. A single edit user added the DOD and place of death of Sunbury to the Wikipedia page in 2017. Nothing in Ryerson, nor Ancestry. But there is a headstone pic on BillionGraves. A son Brett is listed, and searching for "Brett O'Mara Sunbury" does find quite a few sporting results. The daughter Kerrie-Lee appears to have a family tree on Geni. Might be something the AFL/Bris Lions could follow up.
• Warren Prest 9 December 1932 - 6 Feb 2008. 3 games for Ess in 1955-56
  • Death notice with the age about right, St Bernards newsletter notice (next to the Madden brothers' mother's notice), but nothing definite to link him to the footballer. No cemetery record that I can find, and Col Hutchinson was looking for him in the record this year (page 18 Can you help), so definitely one we should pass onto the AFL.

Thanks Pope, all have now been updated on AF.

 

[ThePope]

Trevor Elliott (Essendon 1957–58 & Footscray 1960–61) died 15 June 2019. DOB matches & brother Morrie mentioned in the death notice

 

[Oliver G]

Kevin Betson (Richmond 1952-55) died 29 December 2012. DOB matches in Herald Sun death notice...

No Cookies | Herald Sun

No Cookies

www.heraldsun.com.au

I imagine you are aware @rbartlett but thought I'd tag you as Tigerland Archive hasn't got the DOD listed.

 

[GreyCrow]

Updated 13 January 2021


6 *Desmond 'Des' Clyde Bell b:23/5/1923 Melb 1946-1948 alive in 2016


36 *Gordon Stanley Green b:31/5/1925 NthMelb 1942 alive in 2017
68 *James "Jim" Malone b:13/11/1925 NthMelb 1945-52 still living as of March 29 2018


11 Henry "Harry" John Brown b:16/10/1903 St Kilda 1927
12 Samuel Otto John Buck b:15/11/1876 Carlton 1897
18 Jack Louis Cliff b:23/5/1919 StK 1940-42
21 Eugene Francis "Frank" Corby b:24/12/1924 Coll:1948
22 Frederick "Fred" Rowland Coulsell b:17/12/1905 Nth:1927,Ess 1931
23 Robert "Bobby" Ritchie Craig b:29/3/1882 Melb 1902
33 James "Jimmy" Gaynor b:17/5/1877 Carl 1904
34 Maxwell "Max" Herbert Glass b:2/10/1925 Sth 1945
39 Roger"Bill" Musgrove Hearn b:4/3/1914 Rich 1935
40 Edward "Ted" Page Heffernan b:16/5/1869 Carl 1897
49 Charles "Charlie" Herbert Jenkins b:17/6/1878 Fitz 1898


54 Edmund Kirwin b:31/3/1876 StKilda 1898
59 William "Billy" Francis Roy Leahy b:7/3/1911 Foots 1934-1936
60 Thomas "Tom" Francis Lee b:11/12/1874 Coll 1897-98
63 George Lockwood b:6/12/1872 Geel 1899-1901,Coll 1902-04
71 John "Joe" Albert Marchant b:11/9/1884 StKilda 1904
72 Joseph "Joe" Thomas Marr b:9/08/1880 Carlton1900-02, Ess:1903 Died Prior 1918
74 Charlie McCartney b:26/2/1874 SthMelb 1897,Ess 1899

76 Patrick "Paddy" John McDonald b:27/3/1897 Ess 1918-19
78 John "Jack" James McKenzie b:19/8/1908 Ess 1929
84 Alfred "Alf" Carl Frank Neeson b:15/6/1914 Fitz 1935-36, Haw 1936-38
87 Michael "Mick" Joseph O'Hagan b:22/1/1878 StK 1897
88 *George Henry Prismall b:10/3/1915 Ess 1935
89 *Robert "Bob" Reid b:8/6/1924 Footscray 1948-49
90 Samuel "Sam" Alexander Reid b:17/6/1872 Carlton 1897
94 Archibald Robinson b:9/7/1890 Richmond 1911
95 Raymond Paul Ross b:2/5/1900 Ess 1921
97 Alan James "Ginger" Ryan b:26/9/1909 Melb 1932-33,Coll 1934-38
103 James "Jim" William Smith b:11/2/1887 Sth 1906

110 James "Jim" Scott Sutherland b:10/5/1900 Sth 1924
116 *Albert "Alby" Joseph Williams b:3/8/1916 NthMelb 1943
117 William "Billy" Francis Williams b:2/5/1888 StKilda 1907
118 William "Bill" Henry Woods b:21/8/1890 Geelong 1909


13 *Alfred Joseph Callick b:14/8/1925 SthMelb 1943,1946-1950 passed away January 3 2021
7 *Ronald "Ron" Arthur Bickley b:21/10/1926 - 11/10/2020 Fitz 1949-1951
52 *Geoffrey John Kerr b:7/4/1925 Stk 1945;1947 26/5/2020

32 *Harry Leslie "Les" Gardner b:30/9/1923 StK 1947 alive 2014 passed away May 2019
53 *James "Jim" Francis Kirby b:21/12/1922 NthM 1946 passed away 24/8/1998 #post 796

75 *James "Jim" Kenneth McDonald b:24/6/1916 Melb 1942 To Be Confirmed
105 *Stanley Vincent Smith b:17/4/1925 Coll 1947-50 - listed in AFL Obits

James William McDonald has the same relationship as Alan - from the List Inaccuracy Thread #post 2450


Alf Callick noted in Recent Deaths thread

 

[RedmanWasHere]

21 Eugene Francis "Frank" Corby b:24/12/1924 Coll:1948

I found one on Ancestry that has his year of death as 2008 but it was quite empty and vague.

Don't be making any changes just yet.

 

[ThePope]

Lyal Keighran, 10 games for South Melbourne in 1944 & 47, died on 4 November 2012. Also served in WW2, service number VX121820.

 

[Bandit55]

Lyal Keighran, 10 games for South Melbourne in 1944 & 47, died on 4 November 2012. Also served in WW2, service number VX121820.

I note that Richmond's Darren Keighran was recruited from Lake Boga, as well. Seems likely that they could be related?

 

[RedmanWasHere]

I note that Richmond's Darren Keighran was recruited from Lake Boga, as well. Seems likely that they could be related?

And a few years ago, there was a guy eligible for the draft for the first time in Zane Keighran.

 

[ThePope]

Two more based on matching names and dates of birth, and one we can probably scratch off the list for a while.

• Ron McMahon, 13 games for Melb in 1951-52, died 10 May 2016
• Ron Richards (not Lou's brother/Ed's granddad), 12 games for Foots in 1951-52 , died 11 Oct 2006

And Cliff Riley, 16 games for the Saints 1951-52 (I promise I'm not deliberately targeting players who played in those 2 years!) is 94 years old, but might have a bit more to go. His mum lived to 112!

 

[RedmanWasHere]

The way she blows out the candles and the way Cliff imitates her the apple hasn't fallen far hey.

Also, a 112 year old person with a then 82 year old son is impressive.

 

[ThePope]

One more.
Bill Smeaton, yet another 1951-52 player, 17 games for Melb, but 100s of goals for Ararat and Stawell, died on 13 May 1989.

 

[ThePope]

Over on the inaccuracy thread there was a short post about Keith or Kenneth McNaughton, 1 game for South Melb in 1940.
Well, I've found that he became a fairly successful boxer, called Al Moran! Haven't found a date of death yet, and if he is still alive, he'll turn 100 in August (if our DOB is correct!).

MORAN LEFT FIELD FOR THE RING - The Herald (Melbourne, Vic. : 1861 - 1954) - 24 Oct 1945

Few people know that Al Moran, who fights Sel Hamilton in the main bout at the Stadium on Saturday, is ...

nla.gov.au

 

[ThePope]

Ray Crozier, 1 game for Footscray in 1952, died on 22 Sept 2015.

 

[ThePope]

- Richards
Thanks again for this correction. (And as I mentioned before: lucky you got that In Memoriam - confirms 9-4-30.)
Russell has now got the d-o-b for Lachlan Adrian Russel Richards - born 21-12-1900.

Oliver Gigacz
AustralianFootball has updated the DOB and DOD to match Lachlan, but still has Leslie Roy and Les as the name. Has this been fully agreed by the AFL?
Lachlan Richards, 21 Dec 1900 - 9 Apr-1930, not Les Richards 2 Nov 1902 - ?
AFL Tables still has Les and 1902.
*Paul*

BTW, here is what happend to "Mr L. R. Richards, of Melbourne" on Ocean Island

TWO KILLED - OCEAN ISLAND TRAGEDY - The Sun (Sydney, NSW : 1910 - 1954) - 19 Apr 1930

Behind the entry "did not join ship" in the passenger list of the steamer Barrdale, which arrived to-day from Ocean Island, is a tragedy. The two ...

nla.gov.au

 

[Oliver G]

Oliver Gigacz
AustralianFootball has updated the DOB and DOD to match Lachlan, but still has Leslie Roy and Les as the name. Has this been fully agreed by the AFL?
Lachlan Richards, 21 Dec 1900 - 9 Apr-1930, not Les Richards 2 Nov 1902 - ?
AFL Tables still has Les and 1902.
*Paul*

BTW, here is what happend to "Mr L. R. Richards, of Melbourne" on Ocean Island

TWO KILLED - OCEAN ISLAND TRAGEDY - The Sun (Sydney, NSW : 1910 - 1954) - 19 Apr 1930

Behind the entry "did not join ship" in the passenger list of the steamer Barrdale, which arrived to-day from Ocean Island, is a tragedy. The two ...

nla.gov.au

We're happy with the change, not sure why it's still Les on AF. I'll update it now.

 

[ThePope]

Frank McRae, 45 games for Footscray from 1950-54 may have died in 2007. Can't be sure, but he was recruited from Dalyston/Wonthaggi (West Creek Rd in Archie's Creek to be precise from an old electoral roll info), and was born in 1927, so the age matches.

Ryerson has the following for a James Francis McRae:

[TD valign="top"]McRAE[/TD][TD valign="top"]James Francis (Frank)[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death notice[/TD][TD valign="top"]08AUG2007[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death[/TD][TD valign="top"]80 [/TD][TD valign="top"]at Wonthaggi[/TD][TD valign="top"]Sentinel-Times (South Gippsland)[/TD][TD valign="top"]14AUG2007[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]

[TD valign="top"]McRAE[/TD][TD valign="top"]James Francis (Frank)[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death notice[/TD][TD valign="top"]08AUG2007[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]
[TD valign="top"]late of Wonthaggi[/TD][TD valign="top"]Herald Sun (Melbourne)[/TD][TD valign="top"]10AUG2007[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]

Can anyone follow up with the death notice or cemetery details (Wonthaggi Cemetery according to AusCemeteries & FindAGrave)?

And
Les "Mick" Crawley, 4 games for Melb in 1948 may have died in 2018. Article on Trove (linked from Demonwiki) refers to him as Mick.
Ryerson:

[TD valign="top"]CRAWLEY[/TD][TD valign="top"]Leslie Norman (Mick)[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death notice[/TD][TD valign="top"]17JUL2018[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death[/TD][TD valign="top"]91 [/TD][TD valign="top"]late of Urangan, formerly of North Melbourne[/TD][TD valign="top"]Fraser Coast Chronicle (Hervey Bay)[/TD][TD valign="top"]21JUL2018[/TD][TD valign="top"][/TD]

[TD valign="top"]CRAWLEY[/TD][TD valign="top"]Leslie Norman (Mick)[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death notice[/TD][TD valign="top"]17JUL2018[/TD][TD valign="top"]Death[/TD][TD valign="top"]91 [/TD][TD valign="top"]late of Urangan, formerly of North Melbourne[/TD][TD valign="top"]Hervey Bay City Independent[/TD][TD valign="top"]26JUL2018[/TD]

Death notice is here.

 

[ThePope]

Brian Paine, 1 game for Essendon in 1952, died 25 October 2016.
Kevin Easton, 28 games for North in 1952-56, died 17 June 2012.

Both DOBs match

 

[35Daicos]

I thought I'd have yet another look for this chap (60 Thomas "Tom" Francis Lee b:11/12/1874 Coll 1897-98), having seen his name mentioned in this week's Football Record as one of the former players the AFL is seeking information on.
We had this post from the croucher some time ago:

==================================================================================================

Also:


Here's the death reg. for three of the siblings:


This will be John Robert Lee:

I can't find a death notice! There is a tree on Ancestry for him. The father married a second time in 1877:

That couple had three children, so Thomas Francis Lee and his siblings had two more half-brothers and a half-sister:

The father died in 1904, and his second wife in 1914.


I haven't found a death notice for any of these people (they have to be out there somewhere!), which is annoying! If anyone wants to jump in and help out with this one it would be very much appreciated!

 

[the croucher]

NZ BDM search
1918/8677 Gaynor James Bernard 44Y

I thought we'd solved the Jimmy Gaynor case a fair while ago, checked back and found the #677 & #678 posts among others from Sept/Oct 2018 period which confirmed 1877 DOB as incorrect and his true span being 1875-1918...
...his name can be removed from the unsolved list.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Welcome back the croucher.

 

[the croucher]

I thought I'd have yet another look for this chap (60 Thomas "Tom" Francis Lee b:11/12/1874 Coll 1897-98), having seen his name mentioned in this week's Football Record as one of the former players the AFL is seeking information on.
We had this post from the croucher some time ago:
View attachment 1121004
==================================================================================================
View attachment 1121134
Also:
View attachment 1121145

Here's the death reg. for three of the siblings:
View attachment 1120993

This will be John Robert Lee:
View attachment 1121047
I can't find a death notice! There is a tree on Ancestry for him. The father married a second time in 1877:
View attachment 1121144
That couple had three children, so Thomas Francis Lee and his siblings had two more half-brothers and a half-sister:
View attachment 1121138
The father died in 1904, and his second wife in 1914.
View attachment 1121150

I haven't found a death notice for any of these people (they have to be out there somewhere!), which is annoying! If anyone wants to jump in and help out with this one it would be very much appreciated!

Mmm...puzzle isn't it...have found death notice in Sept 1914 for the second wife, but only the three children from that relationship get a mention in it: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/page/18558583

One of the family trees on Ancestry has Thomas Francis Lee marked as dead "before 1904" which is year his father died...perhaps that person has seen the father's death certificate which has his son T F marked as deceased. Will contact tree owner to check on that.

 

[GreyCrow]

A Thomas Francis Lee married Jeanette (Janet) Stewart (Stuart) Cook - names seem to be interchangable which is why there are 2 candidates

Janet Stuart Lee died Monbulk 1943 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11344923 relict of the late Thomas Lee - so this Thomas Lee dies before 1943

They have 1 child Frank or Thomas Francis 1896-1949

Frank joined the AIF in 1915 and NOK is listed as Mrs JS Lee - rather than father at the time

Thomas Francis LEE

Regimental number	6306
Place of birth	Carlton Victoria
Religion	Methodist
Occupation	Farmer
Address	Monbulk, Victoria
Marital status	Single
Age at embarkation	18
Next of kin	Mother, Mrs J S Lee, Monbulk, Victoria

This suggests that Thomas Lee wasnt alive in 1915

Mmm...puzzle isn't it...have found death notice in Sept 1914 for the second wife, but only the three children from that relationship get a mention in it: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/page/18558583

One of the family trees on Ancestry has Thomas Francis Lee marked as dead "before 1904" which is year his father died...perhaps that person has seen the father's death certificate which has his son T F marked as deceased. Will contact tree owner to check on that.