Opinion Neeld on AFL Website

[drama5]

Hey guys, before i start i would like to emphasise that i am very much a universal football lover and don't get involved with all this my team vs your team bullshit. I Just want to get some inside opinions as i am curious to hear your thoughs and think there is no reason fans from different clubs cant interact with each other about subjects that interest them =)

Anyway, this is the link to the article:
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-04-13/mark-neeld-post-match-press-conference

I am just curious, Do you guys agree with Neelds comments? And are you happy with his view in regards to positives?

In my opinion i absoloutly hate the way he treats Jack Watts! No wonder the guy has no confidence, he is thrown around everywhere, dropped as a scapegoat numerous times and then when he is supposedly ment to be regaining confidence in the reserves he is forced to not play at all as it wont "effect" him and is best for the team! The guy may not be the best number one pick ever but he is a decent player and if treated fairly will go on to have a very good career imo.

I also reckon Melbourne is better than a 94 point loss full stop. If i was cach there would be no way i would find positives in losing by such a margin, especially considering that you guys obviously could match the eagles for much of the first half!

Overall what i am getting at is i think Neeld is a very odd match for the situation that Melbourne is in and alot of his moves seem contradictory! IMO he Seems to be an old school coach caught in the modern day game, with a a team that needs support and proper development, not old school huff and puff.

Anyway would love to get some discussion happening, even if you dont agree i would love to hear your opinions!

 

[stretcharmstrong]

Hey guys, before i start i would like to emphasise that i am very much a universal football lover and don't get involved with all this my team vs your team bullshit. I Just want to get some inside opinions as i am curious to hear your thoughs and think there is no reason fans from different clubs cant interact with each other about subjects that interest them =)

Anyway, this is the link to the article:
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-04-13/mark-neeld-post-match-press-conference

I am just curious, Do you guys agree with Neelds comments? And are you happy with his view in regards to positives?

In my opinion i absoloutly hate the way he treats Jack Watts! No wonder the guy has no confidence, he is thrown around everywhere, dropped as a scapegoat numerous times and then when he is supposedly ment to be regaining confidence in the reserves he is forced to not play at all as it wont "effect" him and is best for the team! The guy may not be the best number one pick ever but he is a decent player and if treated fairly will go on to have a very good career imo.

I also reckon Melbourne is better than a 94 point loss full stop. If i was cach there would be no way i would find positives in losing by such a margin, especially considering that you guys obviously could match the eagles for much of the first half!

Overall what i am getting at is i think Neeld is a very odd match for the situation that Melbourne is in and alot of his moves seem contradictory! IMO he Seems to be an old school coach caught in the modern day game, with a a team that needs support and proper development, not old school huff and puff.

Anyway would love to get some discussion happening, even if you dont agree i would love to hear your opinions!

Understand what you are saying there for sure. 94 point losses are shocking and aren't tolerable under any but the most extreme circumstances.

Unfortunately we currently find ourselves in the midst of some extreme circumstances having lost to a bottom four interstate side by 79 points at home and then to a middle of the table side by 148 points. Something is or has been quite wrong. SO it is in that context that I think it is very fair and reasonable and more beneficial for the team to focus on the positives that can be gathered from the way we played the first half. The second half (and really only the 3rd quarter) was awful, but only really just a continuation of what we have seen during the first two weeks.

Except in the first two weeks we played that way for 95% of the game, not 30-50%. So I'm holding hope that what we saw in the first half is a glimpse of what we will gradually see become more frequent, and be displayed for longer periods, as the season progresses. If that happens, then yesterday will have been the first step.

And I do agree with you about the treatment of Watts. I don't understand it. But then again, I'm not behind the scenes, so won't pretend to know better.

 

[drama5]

Yeah mate i see that completely and guess it just depends on how you view it. The optimist in me says the exact same thing but the pesimist says that you guys were relativly competitive after your rebuild 2 years ago (well in comparison, i know there were heavy losses then) and yet now 2 years later your coach is somewhat happy and content in post match interviews after a 94 point loss. I just think it cant be a good example for the players with the coach coming out and saying there were positives as it may build complacency with the players thinking that a half effort is good enough.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

Yeah mate i see that completely and guess it just depends on how you view it. The optimist in me says the exact same thing but the pesimist says that you guys were relativly competitive after your rebuild 2 years ago (well in comparison, i know there were heavy losses then) and yet now 2 years later your coach is somewhat happy and content in post match interviews after a 94 point loss. I just think it cant be a good example for the players with the coach coming out and saying there were positives as it may build complacency with the players thinking that a half effort is good enough.

Yeah, definitely true. I do think that Neeld is yet to develop a sense of what to hold back and what to let out when speaking to the press. And I would hope that the positives are highlighted and rewarded but that the message is still made loud and clear that the effort drop off in the 3rd quarter isn't acceptable and is the single reason the game blew out.

But I'm sure the players know that already, which is why I think the positive reinforcement has a lot more value in this circumstance. Eg - really making the players understand that the first half of footy, that level of effort and intensity is what is required for the entire game, every week, if you want to succeed; and opening thier eyes to help them realise that if they can do it for a half, they can do it for two halves. Pending fitness obviously...

 

[drama5]

Yeah, definitely true. I do think that Neeld is yet to develop a sense of what to hold back and what to let out when speaking to the press. And I would hope that the positives are highlighted and rewarded but that the message is still made loud and clear that the effort drop off in the 3rd quarter isn't acceptable and is the single reason the game blew out.

But I'm sure the players know that already, which is why I think the positive reinforcement has a lot more value in this circumstance. Eg - really making the players understand that the first half of footy, that level of effort and intensity is what is required for the entire game, every week, if you want to succeed; and opening thier eyes to help them realise that if they can do it for a half, they can do it for two halves. Pending fitness obviously...

Yeah good point, i guess it all depends on the players and if he obviously thinks that they need positive re-enforcement at the moment so have to back him in. I just think in my opinion i would hope that players dont feel pleased with their efforts!

This is one of the reasons Richmond has struggled to be a finals side i reckon. Whereas teams like Geelong and Sydney reject the excuse of 'rebuild" and always look to win at all costs (regardles of wether they have the talent or players are retiring) teams like Richmond and whatnot use the excuse of "rebuild" for 20 years and pass massive losses and failures off as learning curves with positives to be had!

Hard to build a winning culture if you take positives in 100 point losses.

And would love your thoughts on the Wats situation? Surely he could have been let to play and gain some confidence instead of being emergency? And to say tha Jack will be fine missing a game and its best for the team is a bit ruthless considering im sure there were other young players in reserves who would have gained confidence from being named emergency over Watts and possibly getting a chance. After all, Neeld is going for a rebuild and to name a player as emergency over watts in order to let jack get some confidence can only be a win in confidence for all players involved??

 

[Tulip]

I agree with the OP. Neeld is less accountable than Bailey.

He's happy to throw around the rebuild term, but I'm yet to see anyone question his game plan or his recruiting which has already gone wrong.

The Watts decision further proved to me that Neeld doesn't see him as an important part of Melbourne's future, and I desperately hope we have a coach in by the end of the year who does.

 

[Tulip]

Also, a "rollercoaster year"?.

All we heard about all pre-season was how much we'd improved and how every player as so committed. There has been no rollercoaster, Mark. 79, 148. 94 are the losing margins.

Worst. Rollercoaster. Ever.

 

[Crafted]

Every roller coaster goes up.

We wont be going up this year.

YAY lets ruin another #1 draft pick

 

[stretcharmstrong]

...

And would love your thoughts on the Wats situation? Surely he could have been let to play and gain some confidence instead of being emergency? And to say tha Jack will be fine missing a game and its best for the team is a bit ruthless considering im sure there were other young players in reserves who would have gained confidence from being named emergency over Watts and possibly getting a chance. After all, Neeld is going for a rebuild and to name a player as emergency over watts in order to let jack get some confidence can only be a win in confidence for all players involved??

It's tough to really say anything because I am a firm believer that we as observers have NFI what goes on within the club, between coach and player in particular.

I will say this, I seriously seriously hope that Neeld is supporting Watts and that Watts is on the same page as the coach. Regardless of how it currently might appear to us, I don't believe we as onlookers can say one way or the other.

I don't think he should have been dropped. I don't think he should even have been subbed off. The fact that he was made emergency - I don't see it as a big deal at all. If it was the right move for the team, then so be it.

 

[drama5]

It's tough to really say anything because I am a firm believer that we as observers have NFI what goes on within the club, between coach and player in particular.

I will say this, I seriously seriously hope that Neeld is supporting Watts and that Watts is on the same page as the coach. Regardless of how it currently might appear to us, I don't believe we as onlookers can say one way or the other.

I don't think he should have been dropped. I don't think he should even have been subbed off. The fact that he was made emergency - I don't see it as a big deal at all. If it was the right move for the team, then so be it.

fair enough mate, good point in regards to not knowing the dynamics but everyone has to have their opinion, you cant just make the assumption that those with power know or else their is no accountability.

And it wasnt the fact that he was emergency, its the fact that he didnt let him play in reserves as back up. Hard to find confidence when you are sitting on the pine doing nothing

 

[Bluelegs]

Dean Bailey had two roller coaster seasons. Mark Neeld has had one diving season and one which is looking similar.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

fair enough mate, good point in regards to not knowing the dynamics but everyone has to have their opinion, you cant just make the assumption that those with power know or else their is no accountability.

And it wasnt the fact that he was emergency, its the fact that he didnt let him play in reserves as back up. Hard to find confidence when you are sitting on the pine doing nothing

He couldn't play as back up because he was emergency and Casey played in Ballarat I think. Therefore, if it was judged that he was the most appropriate emergency, he couldn't play twos by default.

I understand the point about accountability. I just choose to be a little bit more careful with opinions on things for which I have no evidence than others, that is all. Appreciating your thoughts in here though, drama5.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

Dean Bailey had two roller coaster seasons. Mark Neeld has had one diving season and one which is looking similar.

Excellent contribution Blue

 

[Klyntonius]

Every roller coaster goes up.

We wont be going up this year.

YAY lets ruin another #1 draft pick

Our ride is The Giant Drop.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Our ride is The Giant Drop.

No, as I pointed out mid-avalanche yesterday, the only ride for us is...

 

[Klyntonius]

No, as I pointed out mid-avalanche yesterday, the only ride for us is...

Yes, even better than The Tooth Chipper.

 

[MAXIMUM GRUNDAGE]

No, as I pointed out mid-avalanche yesterday, the only ride for us is...

I'd go with the Escalator to Nowhere (can't find clip ).

 

[Meds]

I'm not a big fan of the comparisons between Bailey and Neeld. I just think the circumstances under which they coached are too different to draw any real comparisons.

Take the list for example. Here are just a few names of some players that Bailey had access to that Neeld hasn't:
James McDonald (251 games)
Russell Robertson (228)
Cameron Bruce (224)
Matty Whelan (150)
Paul Wheatley (135)
Brad Miller (133)
Brock McLean (94)
Matty Warnock
Aussie Wonaeamirri
Liam Jurrah
Jeff White (236)
Adem Yze (271)
David Neitz (306)

Granted, some of these players were beyond their prime during Bailey's tenure, but that's a hell of a lot of games to strip from a playing list over a four year period.

 

[Tulip]

I'm not a big fan of the comparisons between Bailey and Neeld. I just think the circumstances under which they coached are too different to draw any real comparisons.

Take the list for example. Here are just a few names of some players that Bailey had access to that Neeld hasn't:
James McDonald (251 games)
Russell Robertson (228)
Cameron Bruce (224)
Matty Whelan (150)
Paul Wheatley (135)
Brad Miller (133)
Brock McLean (94)
Matty Warnock
Aussie Wonaeamirri
Liam Jurrah
Jeff White (236)
Adem Yze (271)
David Neitz (306)

Granted, some of these players were beyond their prime during Bailey's tenure, but that's a hell of a lot of games to strip from a playing list over a four year period.

Every player aside from Jurrah, Wonna, McLean (and you can hardly count them) and Warnock were past their prime.

Neeld had access to a plethora of high draft picks, but didn't really want to wait around and educate them. (Petterd, Morton, Maric, Gysberts, Cook all gone; Watts, Blease, Strauss, Trengove, Tapscott all still around but mostly on the fringes.)

It's completely fine, but you live by the sword and die by the sword when you make controversial decisions like he has IMO. I'm not sure he has the time to 'rebuild' that he thinks he did.

Also, Neitz, Yze, Bizzel, Brown, White retired at the end of 07/middle of 08.

 

[Meds]

Every player aside from Jurrah, Wonna, McLean (and you can hardly count them) and Warnock were past their prime.

Neeld had access to a plethora of high draft picks, but didn't really want to wait around and educate them. (Petterd, Morton, Maric, Gysberts, Cook all gone; Watts, Blease, Strauss, Trengove, Tapscott all still around but mostly on the fringes.)

It's completely fine, but you live by the sword and die by the sword when you make controversial decisions like he has IMO. I'm not sure he has the time to 'rebuild' that he thinks he did.

Also, Neitz, Yze, Bizzel, Brown, White retired at the end of 07/middle of 08.

You've missed my point slightly, but that's ok. I'd argue McDonald was pretty close to his prime, Miller still had potential, Bruce and Green were still playing some decent footy at times.

I was merely highlighting the fact that so many experienced players left during that four year period, through no fault of anyone. As a club, we have been unsuccessful in developing the players to take over from this group. We have made progress with the likes of Grimes and Jones, while others such as Cook and Maric have gone.

High draft picks the players you mentioned may be, but high-performance footy players? I'd argue not. It's just like VCE and Uni. At the end of year 12 the only thing that matters to anyone is what ENTER you achieved. What everyone learns when you're at uni or even more so in the workplace is that it doesn't matter how you got in the door, it's what you do once you're there that matters. Plenty of smart, 95+ ENTER score students have dropped out of Uni in the first year while hard-working students that aren't as naturally gifted have gone on to become very successful.
We are only outside observers, but the perception is that Morton, Maric, Cook and Gysberts didn't have the drive or work ethic to make it. If they're not willing to work, why should Neeld put any more effort in to educating them.

Neeld has tried to address the lack of experience in our squad through his recruiting while also keeping an eye on the future by bringing in young talent. We are yet to see Rodan, Byrnes and Dawes live up to our expectations on the field, but who knows what they are doing behind closed doors. If they are educating Viney, Kent, Taggert, Watts and Mcdonald about what it takes to be succcessful in the AFL then I think they are adding value to the group. Don't get me wrong, I think they should be showing on field leadership as well, hopefully that will come soon.

I also hope that the Board has given him a clear objective in regards to what this season looks like. We need a long term view that addresses our current deficiencies in regards to player development and losing culture. Neeld coaching week to week just to save his job does nothing for the long term success of our beloved footy club.