Society/Culture Neoliberalism

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Snake_Baker

Snake_Baker

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A very good critique

What neoliberalism misses or ignores is that a world of apparently neutral rules is still a world of power inequalities. When capital has more freedom than people, serious democratic deficits are guaranteed. Voters may prefer a strong welfare state, but they may get austerity instead. In many nations, including the United States, the power of money in politics gives concentrated wealth a sword to hold over democracy’s neck. As the wealthy exert ever more influence over the political process, we may be closer to William Hutt’s plan for weighted voting than we would probably admit. In the neoliberal view, this is how it is supposed to work. It is, in Hayek’s language, the “discipline of freedom.” But it makes the goal of achieving relative equality through democracy very difficult.

https://newrepublic.com/article/147810/worlds-apart-neoliberalism-shapes-global-economy
 
Snake_Baker said:
A very good critique

Voters may prefer a strong welfare state, but they may get austerity instead.
Click to expand...

These are in no way corollaries....The rich establishment media would have us believe they are.....A healthy society is a productive society.

The most significant point of the paragraph so far as false underlying presuppositions go & you completely missed it.

Watch & learn:

 
Dr Jill Stein. The Democratic Party has a kill switch. George McGovern was elected, but it was decided that it could never happen again. So when you vote in the Primary you're voting for some of the delegates to the convention that can represent your state. But then on top of that there's the 'super delegates' that can sideline the regular candidates from being locked out of debates.

It's a fake left while the party goes right and becomes more corporatitist.
 

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sorted said:
Dr Jill Stein. The Democratic Party has a kill switch. George McGovern was elected, but it was decided that it could never happen again. So when you vote in the Primary you're voting for some of the delegates to the convention that can represent your state. But then on top of that there's the 'super delegates' that can sideline the regular candidates from being locked out of debates.

It's a fake left while the party goes right and becomes more corporatitist.
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Egg-zack-awy.

They flipped on Bernie in so many ways.....and with the help of the GOP in some instances.

The entire 2016 election will go down in U.S history as the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on the U.S public......Just in case you were wondering what the 2 year phoney-baloney Russian beat-up was all about covering-up as a distraction.....The Neo-Libs have been brainwashed & manipulated every which way till Sunday, & many have still not woken up to the fact of the cover-up, the inversion & the scam.

One of these days, the centrist progressives will realise that corporate America has hijacked their party away from then, ever since the days of Carter.....The penny still hasn't dropped with some of the staunchest Democrat party advocates on these boards......That's the power of ideology to blind the faithful.
 
Reading material, not recommended for Neoliberals.

The following ring a bell does it?

“Reforms” = The stealthy privatisation of public wealth. “Conservative Reforms” entail cuts to social provisions and public services – paid for by everyone – which support the poorest citizens when they experience hardship. The money is then re-allocated to the wealthiest citizens via generous tax cuts and lower business tax rates which effectively privatises wealth and profit, while making any risks and costs a social burden.
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ANY VOICE

pEfVhgg.jpg
 
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Neoliberalism is nothing short of a cancer. Neoliberals stand for the erosion of the organs of government that help make a society cohesive and decent.

As communists yearned for an impossible world of totally shared production, neoliberals want to take society backwards to a kind of strange modern feudalism. The end game of neoliberalism is a divided community where the majority toil for minimal pay in insecure work, while the wealthy minority reap almost all the benefits of progress. The majority have no choice but to act as wage slaves because the safety net is almost non-existent, and also forced to rent for their entire lives paying the few who own multiple properties (and get tax breaks as a reward). All essential services are in private hands. This means widespread price gounging making basic living barely affordable (or not at all) for the majority, while a minority of big shareholders profit handsomely and live in abundance.

Whilst I do not believe neoliberals actually want society to be worse off, they don't seem to realise that their policies make for a worse society overall. As long as somebody is making lots of money, they're happy.
 
Snake_Baker said:
A very good critique

What neoliberalism misses or ignores is that a world of apparently neutral rules is still a world of power inequalities. When capital has more freedom than people, serious democratic deficits are guaranteed. Voters may prefer a strong welfare state, but they may get austerity instead. In many nations, including the United States, the power of money in politics gives concentrated wealth a sword to hold over democracy’s neck. As the wealthy exert ever more influence over the political process, we may be closer to William Hutt’s plan for weighted voting than we would probably admit. In the neoliberal view, this is how it is supposed to work. It is, in Hayek’s language, the “discipline of freedom.” But it makes the goal of achieving relative equality through democracy very difficult.

https://newrepublic.com/article/147810/worlds-apart-neoliberalism-shapes-global-economy
Click to expand...
Weighted voting is an excellent thing. It just needs to be weighted on education and not money.
 
Rotayjay said:
Neoliberalism is nothing short of a cancer. Neoliberals stand for the erosion of the organs of government that help make a society cohesive and decent.

As communists yearned for an impossible world of totally shared production, neoliberals want to take society backwards to a kind of strange modern feudalism. The end game of neoliberalism is a divided community where the majority toil for minimal pay in insecure work, while the wealthy minority reap almost all the benefits of progress. The majority have no choice but to act as wage slaves because the safety net is almost non-existent, and also forced to rent for their entire lives paying the few who own multiple properties (and get tax breaks as a reward). All essential services are in private hands. This means widespread price gounging making basic living barely affordable (or not at all) for the majority, while a minority of big shareholders profit handsomely and live in abundance.

Whilst I do not believe neoliberals actually want society to be worse off, they don't seem to realise that their policies make for a worse society overall. As long as somebody is making lots of money, they're happy.
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Interesting. What are your views on the fact that communism has led to persons being actually worse off when compared and contrasted with neoliberal state?
 
TimmeT said:
Interesting. What are your views on the fact that communism has led to persons being actually worse off when compared and contrasted with neoliberal state?
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I don't believe communism or extreme Soviet-style socialism works at all. I do, however, believe we'd be even better off if we'd adopted more democratic socialist measures like Scandinavia rather than embracing the free market above all else.
 
TimmeT said:
Interesting. What are your views on the fact that communism has led to persons being actually worse off when compared and contrasted with neoliberal state?
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... which has lead to people being actually worse off, as the systems created by neoliberalism result in plutocracies in which those with money write the rules and those without work without any possibility of leaving the lower classes?

You gonna argue trickle down economics works to benefit all, are you?
 
TimmeT said:
Interesting. What are your views on the fact that communism has led to persons being actually worse off when compared and contrasted with neoliberal state?
Click to expand...

You would be surprised to know that sometimes a neoliberal state actually leads to people being worse off than a Communist state. Compare the Soviet Union in 1990/91 with Russia in about 1998/99, post neoliberal 'shock therapy', and you'll get the picture. (Russia's recovery since is partially down to oil prices and partially down to Putin adopting a more state-managed capitalist approach, e.g - nationalisation.)

At any rate, nobody sane advocates for a Communist state. Communism is in general a failed, unrealistic philosophy. I think the majority of posters here (including myself) are capitalists first and foremost, but of the Scandinavian capitalist hue rather than the US neoliberal hue.
 
DaRick said:
You would be surprised to know that sometimes a neoliberal state actually leads to people being worse off than a Communist state. Compare the Soviet Union in 1990/91 with Russia in about 1998/99, post neoliberal 'shock therapy', and you'll get the picture. (Russia's recovery since is partially down to oil prices and partially down to Putin adopting a more state-managed capitalist approach, e.g - nationalisation.)

At any rate, nobody sane advocates for a Communist state. Communism is in general a failed, unrealistic philosophy. I think the majority of posters here (including myself) are capitalists first and foremost, but of the Scandinavian capitalist hue rather than the US neoliberal hue.
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Well...

:think:
 

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Rotayjay said:
I don't believe communism or extreme Soviet-style socialism works at all. I do, however, believe we'd be even better off if we'd adopted more democratic socialist measures like Scandinavia rather than embracing the free market above all else.
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Fair point now your stance is much cklearer to me cheers.

Gethelred said:
... which has lead to people being actually worse off, as the systems created by neoliberalism result in plutocracies in which those with money write the rules and those without work without any possibility of leaving the lower classes?

You gonna argue trickle down economics works to benefit all, are you?
Click to expand...

However the same systems happened under communism too along with all the other negative s**t.

DaRick said:
You would be surprised to know that sometimes a neoliberal state actually leads to people being worse off than a Communist state. Compare the Soviet Union in 1990/91 with Russia in about 1998/99, post neoliberal 'shock therapy', and you'll get the picture. (Russia's recovery since is partially down to oil prices and partially down to Putin adopting a more state-managed capitalist approach, e.g - nationalisation.)

At any rate, nobody sane advocates for a Communist state. Communism is in general a failed, unrealistic philosophy. I think the majority of posters here (including myself) are capitalists first and foremost, but of the Scandinavian capitalist hue rather than the US neoliberal hue.
Click to expand...

Come up with a better comparison. Not surprised when there is major economic and political change that there are issues in the first years
 
TimmeT said:
Come up with a better comparison. Not surprised when there is major economic and political change that there are issues in the first years
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You contended that people in Communist states were worse off than those in neoliberal states. I offered a counter-example to demonstrate that this wasn't always true.

At any rate, I disagree that Russia merely had 'issues' - it seems to me that Russia basically collapsed from an already rather mediocre level in less than a decade (do you recall its currency collapse in 1998?). Putin shifting away from the neoliberal course was IMO necessary to set Russia right again (oil prices also helped).

I will be fair to you though and admit that relatively successful transitions from a Communist economy to a more neoliberal economy are possible. Poland appears to be a good example - was that the comparison you wanted? Even then Russia's per capita GDP has managed to surpass Poland's at times during Putin's reign.
 
Rotayjay said:
I don't believe communism or extreme Soviet-style socialism works at all. I do, however, believe we'd be even better off if we'd adopted more democratic socialist measures like Scandinavia rather than embracing the free market above all else.
Click to expand...

The so-called free-market, should always be about serving we the peoples interests first, not the establishment & the corporations. And nor ought it to be geared towards a profit margin as the be all & end all, at the expense of the general populace above all else.

Governments are in place in a Democracy to ensure that a healthy balance betwixt the 2 is always maintained through the institutional checks & balances....Unfortunately, most of the levers that control those checks & balances have been usurped by the corporate establishment, through corruption, bribery, graft & blackmail....AKA lobbyists.
 
Like Communism, Neoliberalism is handicapped by being a movement that is too ideological. As mentioned earlier, I too think it is a path to feudalism.

This article:

https://medium.economist.com/a-manifesto-for-renewing-liberalism-8d36c9699649

(Click through to the full essay if you have the time)

is a great read for the true liberals out there. It's a little light on detail but it's thinking is in the right place.
 
medusala said:
Wayne the Wizard Swan didnt have an economics degree nor did Gordon Brown.
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All the more reason to follow 'Thatcher milk snatcher' then, I spose.....History has shown that she was right about the EU at least….and the Tories got rid of her because of it....Multi-nat, line-towing *-wits.
 
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