Discussion Nicky Winmar

[Verdun]

Understand he may be suing a couple of the neanderthals of the AFL.

We need to improve on how we treat people, be good if the AFL called it out instead of defending by acceptance.

 

[George]

Not good at all but if there's any positive it's that I'm glad it's happening to our club. Probably the most progressive of the lot when it comes to equality.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

I'm confused. A lot on the main board are saying there's a chance he was just pointing to his heart and something about guts?

I've never heard it discussed as anything but a statement against racism.

 

[Verdun]

I'm confused. A lot on the main board are saying there's a chance he was just pointing to his heart and something about guts?

I've never heard it discussed as anything but a statement against racism.

Reckon Nicky might be the one to make that call and do not believe that has changed from what you refer to in your last statement.

 

[plugger66]

Reckon Nicky might be the one to make that call and do not believe that has changed from what you refer to in your last statement.

I must be honest here and say that is what I originally heard why he did it but if he says it wasn’t who am I to disagree. Sounds like a song.

 

[bird_man]

I'm confused. A lot on the main board are saying there's a chance he was just pointing to his heart and something about guts?

I've never heard it discussed as anything but a statement against racism.

We've never heard it discussed because it never happened. Why would Winmar and Gilbert lie about that for 25 years?

It's just a couple of racist old picks trying to change history to fit their agenda.

Pathetic.

Actually made my blood boil.

The problem is there are that many sheep out there they jump on every comment pricks like this make and act as though it is fact.

 

[gringo2011]

We've never heard it discussed because it never happened. Why would Winmar and Gilbert lie about that for 25 years?

It's just a couple of racist old picks trying to change history to fit their agenda.

Pathetic.

Actually made my blood boil.

The problem is there are that many sheep out there they jump on every comment pricks like this make and act as though it is fact.

Newman is pathetic these days. There is nothing worse than some old celebrity with relevance issues metaphorically smearing himself in his own excrement to get people to look at him a bit longer. I feel embarrassed for him.

 

[Parkysp]

So the Sunday papers on the 18th April 1993 ...The Herald Sun went with the "we did it with guts" line. The Sunday Age went with the "I'm black and I'm proud" line.
The Age went that way because the bloke who took the photo was 5 feet away and heard it.
The Herald Sun reporter was up in the Grand Stand behind glass so could not have heard it but knew of the photo.
On all available evidence I know who I believe and Mike Sheehan's usual shtick about knowing what happened because "he has a vibe" shows himself up in this case.

 

[soups1982]

We've never heard it discussed because it never happened. Why would Winmar and Gilbert lie about that for 25 years?

It's just a couple of racist old picks trying to change history to fit their agenda.

Pathetic.

Actually made my blood boil.

The problem is there are that many sheep out there they jump on every comment pricks like this make and act as though it is fact.

Couldn't have said it better myself. This is outrageous and disgusting operations by Newman and Scott, however i'm suprised by neither. Very disappointed in Mike Shehan being involved like this, i thought he was better than that.


For those that didn't get to catch it, this is totally worth a listen.

Maybe it's time to Listen

Bob Murphy gives his take on the famous Nicky Winmar jumper lift.

player.whooshkaa.com

 

[Parkysp]

So the Sunday papers on the 18th April 1993 ...The Herald Sun went with the "we did it with guts" line. The Sunday Age went with the "I'm black and I'm proud" line.
The Age went that way because the bloke who took the photo was 5 feet away and heard it.
The Herald Sun reporter was up in the Grand Stand behind glass so could not have heard it but knew of the photo.
On all available evidence I know who I believe and Mike Sheehan's usual shtick about knowing what happened because "he has a vibe" shows himself up in this case.

I'll add to my own post. This "debate" actually occurred during the week following in 1993 and it was accepted that what The Age reported was correct. Because it was true...
Interesting that the same people who bemoan history being re-written aren't adverse to doing the same thing. Interesting but not surprising.

 

[mightymalaka]

I'll add to my own post. This "debate" actually occurred during the week following in 1993 and it was accepted that what The Age reported was correct. Because it was true...
Interesting that the same people who bemoan history being re-written aren't adverse to doing the same thing. Interesting but not surprising.

I used to think Newman was a rather amusing fellow who deep down had a good heart!
How wrong could I have been!
These days just comes across as an elitist, racist, bitter senile old Kent!

 

[Verdun]

I'll add to my own post. This "debate" actually occurred during the week following in 1993 and it was accepted that what The Age reported was correct. Because it was true...
Interesting that the same people who bemoan history being re-written aren't adverse to doing the same thing. Interesting but not surprising.

Very good point Parkysp - keep hearing about the black armband version of history, need another term for old irrelevant blokes version of history who get offended when challenged.

 

[luca77]

Couldn't have said it better myself. This is outrageous and disgusting operations by Newman and Scott, however i'm suprised by neither. Very disappointed in Mike Shehan being involved like this, i thought he was better than that.


For those that didn't get to catch it, this is totally worth a listen.

Maybe it's time to Listen

Bob Murphy gives his take on the famous Nicky Winmar jumper lift.

player.whooshkaa.com

Really? imo Sheahan's been nothing more than a fuddy duddy for years now. No football insight, just a casual observer who has managed to hang around by being beige. Couldn't think of anyone I'm less inclined to listen to a podcast by.

 

[Nutsngum]

The "guts" idea doesnt even make a lot of sense. Why would a black man, in the midst of being hurled racist shit at, point to his skin and mean "ive got guts"?

 

[Geary Is GOAT]

Unfortunately i don't think the legal action will go anywhere if they're pursing defamation, especially given the response to the comments.

Newman's ability to project his own partiality on social issues is unrivalled. Claiming that 'activists' have rewritten the history of this incident to suit their own agenda when that's exactly what he's doing. Just astonishing.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Newman is pathetic these days. There is nothing worse than some old celebrity with relevance issues metaphorically smearing himself in his own excrement to get people to look at him a bit longer. I feel embarrassed for him.

He made a career out of doing it. If people keep getting sucked in then he'll keep doing it.

 

[Plugger35]

You can take out of it want you want.

Nicky is proud to be indigenous and he's also proud to be St Kilda.

'


Nicky is in my top 5 St Kilda players of all time along with Lockett, Harvey, Hayes and Riewoldt.

He was special.

 

[MUFKilda]

I have no idea what this is about . Help me out someone.

 

[Verdun]

I have no idea what this is about . Help me out someone.

Will try mate and please others add to this as needed (my original post was short as I didn't want to give any attention to said commentators was just pissed on Nicky Winmar's behalf): -

This is Nicky Winmar (to me one of our all time most talented and great players) at Victoria Park the then home ground of Collingwood, after a copping a heap of racist abuse from the Pies supporters.



The photo was taken by a reporter from The Age who at that game was actually close to Nicky Winmar and had heard the crowd, at the time he said he heard him say proud to be black. A reporter from the Herald Sun (a tabloid) reported it as pointing to his guts after a gutsy win. Since then the image has been representative of anti racism and this is what it has meant to Nicky Winmar (which to me is important).

This is outside one of our grounds:




Recently some commentators have come out and said that they believed it was not a stand against racism and has been used the wrong way, ie that it Nicky Winmar was only saying gutsy win. One of those commentators also has recently said George Floyd was scum etc. They said this on a podcast and as has been pointed out the resulting publicity has given them some undeserved attention and they would believe relevance.

St Kilda had two indigenous players that day Nicky Winmar and Gilbert McAdam who have both said they copped a lot of disgusting racist abuse that day (and others) and this was a response to that. Nicky Winmar has recently threatened to sue the commentators for re interpreting defaming what he has said.

To me it is a pathetic re writing of what occurred to suit the commentators pathetic agenda. I am personally torn between trying to defend Nicky Winmar and his legacy which I believe should be done (by the AFL as well) and not given said pathetic personalities attention that they crave as they believe gives them some kind of relevance (similar to someone like Piers Morgan in the UK / shock jocks or Fox News in the US).

Believe Nicky Winmar's stand that day should be respected, not diminished, also have a fear he will be type cast as the angry aboriginal now when this is totally undeserved he should be respected.

 

[George]

I have no idea what this is about . Help me out someone.

 

[Verdun]

cheers George - better from Gilbert than I

 

[MUFKilda]

Will try mate and please others add to this as needed (my original post was short as I didn't want to give any attention to said commentators was just pissed on Nicky Winmar's behalf): -

This is Nicky Winmar (to me one of our all time most talented and great players) at Victoria Park the then home ground of Collingwood, after a copping a heap of racist abuse from the Pies supporters.

View attachment 901703

The photo was taken by a reporter from The Age who at that game was actually close to Nicky Winmar and had heard the crowd, at the time he said he heard him say proud to be black. A reporter from the Herald Sun (a tabloid) reported it as pointing to his guts after a gutsy win. Since then the image has been representative of anti racism and this is what it has meant to Nicky Winmar (which to me is important).

This is outside one of our grounds:

View attachment 901704


Recently some commentators have come out and said that they believed it was not a stand against racism and has been used the wrong way, ie that it Nicky Winmar was only saying gutsy win. One of those commentators also has recently said George Floyd was scum etc. They said this on a podcast and as has been pointed out the resulting publicity has given them some undeserved attention and they would believe relevance.

St Kilda had two indigenous players that day Nicky Winmar and Gilbert McAdam who have both said they copped a lot of disgusting racist abuse that day (and others) and this was a response to that. Nicky Winmar has recently threatened to sue the commentators for re interpreting defaming what he has said.

To me it is a pathetic re writing of what occurred to suit the commentators pathetic agenda. I am personally torn between trying to defend Nicky Winmar and his legacy which I believe should be done (by the AFL as well) and not given said pathetic personalities attention that they crave as they believe gives them some kind of relevance (similar to someone like Piers Morgan in the UK / shock jocks or Fox News in the US).

Believe Nicky Winmar's stand that day should be respected, not diminished, also have a fear he will be type cast as the angry aboriginal now when this is totally undeserved he should be respected.

Many thanks. I can well imagine the type of abuse indigenous players had to endure back in the day, much like black soccer players here. Things have improved enormously, but yes, there are still some dinosaurs around, in addition to the trolls. Who are these commentators? I see face lift Newman mentioned, and, having seen plenty of him on You Tube, he seems a real prick.

 

[George]

Many thanks. I can well imagine the type of abuse indigenous had to endure back in the day, much like black soccer players here. Things have improved enormously, but yes, there are still some dinosaurs around, in addition to the trolls. Who are these commentators? I see face lift Newman mentioned, and, having seen plenty of him on You Tube, he seems a real prick.

Newman was a ruckman that played 300 games for Geelong back in the 60's and then spent a good 30 years in media on TV & radio (co-host of an iconic show over here that ran for 25 years - 'The Footy Show' - ironically hosted alongside Collingwood president Eddie McGuire who has also had his fair share of racial blunders).

Many may disagree with me and just my view but I don't believe Newman is a racist, I just believe he is an old man with outdated views that likes to speak his mind. I think mentally he is still stuck in a period of time where saying the sorts of things he says was accepted or wasn't as harshly criticised. He has said some pretty controversial things in the past about many topics including women and homosexuals. I would say he definitely needs to be educated on topics of race and sexuality but that ship has probably sailed for him, I would assume he would be too stubborn to change his thinking.

The other two men on that podcast were Mike Sheahan who had been an AFL journalist for the Herald Sun for many years, at one point he was the chief football writer for that newspaper. I think many have had much respect for him over the years, from my own recollection I don't think he has ever been involved in controversy but when you spend time around people as jarring as Sam Newman I think it's only a matter of time before you are wrapped up in a news story.

And then Don Scott who played 300 games for Hawthorn as a ruckman in the 70's. Used to commentate games in the 90's for a little while. May be wrong here and admittedly don't know enough about him but don't think he has been involved in much controversy over the years either.

I would say these three men, but moreso Sam Newman, have outdated views and don't realise how insensitive they can come across at times. I think it's good to speak your mind but if you aren't educated on a subject you probably should refrain from making comment. It's intriguing because Newman played alongside one of the greatest indigenous players of all-time, Graham Farmer, so you'd assume he would be understanding of Farmer's struggles, especially as an indigenous man in the 60's, a time when these issues were more prevalent. He has even said Farmer was the greatest player he's ever seen play the game and was good friends with him.

What is true however is that Nicky & Gilbert were racially vilified by Collingwood supporters that day. At the end of the game Nicky raised his shirt and pointed to his chest. If Nicky says it was a stand against racism then that is what it was, if people have thought otherwise or a have a different recollection of events I'd suggest they change their thinking.

 

[MUFKilda]

Newman was a ruckman that played 300 games for Geelong back in the 60's and then spent a good 30 years in media on TV & radio (co-host of an iconic show over here that ran for 25 years - 'The Footy Show' - ironically hosted alongside Collingwood president Eddie McGuire who has also had his fair share of racial blunders).

Many may disagree with me and just my view but I don't believe Newman is a racist, I just believe he is an old man with outdated views that likes to speak his mind. I think mentally he is still stuck in a period of time where saying the sorts of things he says was accepted or wasn't as harshly criticised. He has said some pretty controversial things in the past about many topics including women and homosexuals. I would say he definitely needs to be educated on topics of race and sexuality but that ship has probably sailed for him, I would assume he would be too stubborn to change his thinking.

The other two men on that podcast were Mike Sheahan who had been an AFL journalist for the Herald Sun for many years, at one point he was the chief football writer for that newspaper. I think many have had much respect for him over the years, from my own recollection I don't think he has ever been involved in controversy but when you spend time around people as jarring as Sam Newman I think it's only a matter of time before you are wrapped up in a news story.

And then Don Scott who played 300 games for Hawthorn as a ruckman in the 70's. Used to commentate games in the 90's for a little while. May be wrong here and admittedly don't know enough about him but don't think he has been involved in much controversy over the years either.

I would say these three men, but moreso Sam Newman, have outdated views and don't realise how insensitive they can come across at times. I think it's good to speak your mind but if you aren't educated on a subject you probably should refrain from making comment. It's intriguing because Newman played alongside one of the greatest indigenous players of all-time, Graham Farmer, so you'd assume he would be understanding of Farmer's struggles, especially as an indigenous man in the 60's, a time when these issues were more prevalent. He has even said Farmer was the greatest player he's ever seen play the game and was good friends with him.

I've seen a fair bit of Newman; the other two I know nothing about. There is something about Newman that gives me the creeps; probably all that cosmetic surgery. I don't why a bloke of his age would want to look like Joan Rivers. I've seen him have a few rants about political correctness on The Footy Show. He seems to have the golf club view of the world.

 

[George]

I've seen a fair bit of Newman; the other two I know nothing about. There is something about Newman that gives me the creeps; probably all that cosmetic surgery. I don't why a bloke of his age would want to look like Joan Rivers. I've seen him have a few rants about political correctness on The Footy Show. He seems to have the golf club view of the world.

I think there's a difference between being uneducated or saying the wrong thing, and being a racist. I don't even think his comment was racist. I just think it was insensitive like many things he has said in the past. I think he holds his persona as a badge of honour, he revels in the fact he will speak his mind on anything and everything despite a PC culture we live in. Sometimes though you need to understand where the boundaries are and he has definitely crossed them often.

This is him speaking after Farmer's passing - I think deep down he is an alright guy, unfortunately there are many people his age that share the same thinking as he does - he just has a platform to make his voice heard.