North Shore Football Club

[tim finnigan]

What does the future hold for this once powerhouse GFL club?

Football- Seniors, reserves and u18's all winless and bottom of the ladder
Netball- A,B,C,D u17,u15,u13's all winless and bottom of the ladder

A quick look at the clubs results so far this year show seniors have been competetive in some games but there other football teams and netball sides have been smashed every week. The under 18's would be a massive concern with 3 losses over 150 points and a lowest losing margain over 96 points against West.

Id hate to see it happen, but would maybe a move into the GDFL be a good idea for the club? There results over the past few years would mean that there succesful past would not be enough to attract some real quality recruits.

Norlane is a pretty ageing area and there doesnt seem to be the ammount of kids coming thru that were there in the past.. Peoples thoughts???

 

[Roosters25]

What does the future hold for this once powerhouse GFL club?

Football- Seniors, reserves and u18's all winless and bottom of the ladder
Netball- A,B,C,D u17,u15,u13's all winless and bottom of the ladder

A quick look at the clubs results so far this year show seniors have been competetive in some games but there other football teams and netball sides have been smashed every week. The under 18's would be a massive concern with 3 losses over 150 points and a lowest losing margain over 96 points against West.

Id hate to see it happen, but would maybe a move into the GDFL be a good idea for the club? There results over the past few years would mean that there succesful past would not be enough to attract some real quality recruits.

Norlane is a pretty ageing area and there doesnt seem to be the ammount of kids coming thru that were there in the past.. Peoples thoughts???

silliest thing ive ever heard, they will get better eventually, give them some time

 

[tim finnigan]

silliest thing ive ever heard, they will get better eventually, give them some time

2008-
Seniors-1 win %40.13
Reserves- 0 wins %20.86
u18's- 0 wins %4.05

2009-
Seniors- 0 wins
Reserves- 0 wins
u18's- 0 wins

2010- so far..
Seniors- o wins %61.38
Reserves- 0 wins %15.51
u18's- 0 wins %7.53

Couldn't find netball archieves but pretty sure there hasnt been many if any wins between the grades since 2008..

I dont want it to seem like im knocking the club coz im not, I remember what a brilliant club they were in the 90's and start of this decade but no other club has ever struggled like they have for the past 3 years and it doesnt look good to have a club struggle lke this in whats regarded as one of local footballs strongest comps.

Who knows they may be able to recruit a few decent players into the seniors in the coming years, but this is just a short term solution. I hope they can get out of this situation but at the moment i just cant see it happening.

 

[Roosters25]

2008-
Seniors-1 win %40.13
Reserves- 0 wins %20.86
u18's- 0 wins %4.05

2009-
Seniors- 0 wins
Reserves- 0 wins
u18's- 0 wins

2010- so far..
Seniors- o wins %61.38
Reserves- 0 wins %15.51
u18's- 0 wins %7.53

Couldn't find netball archieves but pretty sure there hasnt been many if any wins between the grades since 2008..

I dont want it to seem like im knocking the club coz im not, I remember what a brilliant club they were in the 90's and start of this decade but no other club has ever struggled like they have for the past 3 years and it doesnt look good to have a club struggle lke this in whats regarded as one of local footballs strongest comps.

Who knows they may be able to recruit a few decent players into the seniors in the coming years, but this is just a short term solution. I hope they can get out of this situation but at the moment i just cant see it happening.

yeah you do have a point there but they cant just be chucked out of the league because of a few years, i know they are terrible but its just wrong if it happens. look at their club history. they will eventually re-build and become decent again.
for example richmond have been terrible in the afl for a while now, you cant just chuck them out of the league over a terrible few years.

 

[tim finnigan]

yeah you do have a point there but they cant just be chucked out of the league because of a few years, i know they are terrible but its just wrong if it happens. look at their club history. they will eventually re-build and become decent again.
for example richmond have been terrible in the afl for a while now, you cant just chuck them out of the league over a terrible few years.

Drawing a pretty long bow comparing a suburban Geelong club to an AFL club with 40,000 members.

Like i said, plenty of teams have struggled over the years in this comp but nothing compared to what this whole club has for the past 3 years. Norlane is an older area with not as many young people living around there, the pokies have been removed from the club. I dont think this is a simple case of a club having a lean trot that will eventually turn around.

 

[Drago]

Drawing a pretty long bow comparing a suburban Geelong club to an AFL club with 40,000 members.

Like i said, plenty of teams have struggled over the years in this comp but nothing compared to what this whole club has for the past 3 years. Norlane is an older area with not as many young people living around there, the pokies have been removed from the club. I dont think this is a simple case of a club having a lean trot that will eventually turn around.

How would putting them into the GDFL help? They would still need to attract players, administrators, sponsors etc and compounding this is that they would be put in direct competition with 2 other GDFL teams (Corio, Nth Geelong) for the hearts and minds of the same local constituents.

 

[muttonchops]

How would putting them into the GDFL help? They would still need to attract players, administrators, sponsors etc and compounding this is that they would be put in direct competition with 2 other GDFL teams (Corio, Nth Geelong) for the hearts and minds of the same local constituents.

Its a tough one, you can't just go booting out every club that has a stint on the bottom. Clubs such as Portarlington and South Barwon may not exist. Thats right even South had a stint down the bottom. But therein lies the point South embarked on a junior program which is second to none and thats has helped them. North Shore dont seem to be able to do that somehow. I dont think it is the area from what i can think of both Nth Geelong and Corio have pretty good junior set ups so why cant North Shore. I saw them play against St Marys and they werent that bad. As simple as it sounds i think getting a good coach is so important. And i thin kthey have got that part right so i hope Riccardi stays for a few years. They need a plan and to stick to it. Booting them out wont acheive anything but patience may. If they can get the juniors coming through i think is important but i guess they need to get them first.

 

[tim finnigan]

Its a tough one, you can't just go booting out every club that has a stint on the bottom. Clubs such as Portarlington and South Barwon may not exist. Thats right even South had a stint down the bottom. But therein lies the point South embarked on a junior program which is second to none and thats has helped them. North Shore dont seem to be able to do that somehow. I dont think it is the area from what i can think of both Nth Geelong and Corio have pretty good junior set ups so why cant North Shore. I saw them play against St Marys and they werent that bad. As simple as it sounds i think getting a good coach is so important. And i thin kthey have got that part right so i hope Riccardi stays for a few years. They need a plan and to stick to it. Booting them out wont acheive anything but patience may. If they can get the juniors coming through i think is important but i guess they need to get them first.

Port are a bit different coz didnt they go for broke in 93 or 94 to win a flag? To my knowledge North Shore havnt done this.

I think the demographics is a big concern. Corio is a massive suburb with plenty of young people, Norlane is a industrial area really with more of an older population. As i said the seniors have been pretty competetive this season but go thru there 2's and u18's and its been terrible.

I agree with you tho, i dont want them kicked out of the league but you have to think, if these results keep up for another 3-4 years how will they survive that and would the GFL want them??

 

[tim finnigan]

How would putting them into the GDFL help? They would still need to attract players, administrators, sponsors etc and compounding this is that they would be put in direct competition with 2 other GDFL teams (Corio, Nth Geelong) for the hearts and minds of the same local constituents.

Geelong has a population of around 160,000 people with 22 teams littered thru out the suburbs so it doesnt matter where your clubs based, there going to be competeting with other clubs.

I wouldn't want them to go to GDFL but when your whole club is that far off the pace in the GFL how are they going to climb off the canvas when every other club is growing and becoming more professional every year??

Its time something was done in this town in regards to forming one league with 3 divisons. If the leagues wanna keep bitching and whinging about then let the VCFL step in and make it happen otherwise we'll end up with a number of clubs having a very limited future.

 

[muttonchops]

Geelong has a population of around 160,000 people with 22 teams littered thru out the suburbs so it doesnt matter where your clubs based, there going to be competeting with other clubs.

I wouldn't want them to go to GDFL but when your whole club is that far off the pace in the GFL how are they going to climb off the canvas when every other club is growing and becoming more professional every year??

Its time something was done in this town in regards to forming one league with 3 divisons. If the leagues wanna keep bitching and whinging about then let the VCFL step in and make it happen otherwise we'll end up with a number of clubs having a very limited future.

Here here TF. The only way this will happen is if the VCFL step in, the GFL clubs would never do it otherwise.

I think the problem is if North Shore go to the GDFL it will actually get worse. They will lose a lot of players who want to play GFL therefore it may not be as effective as you think.

Three divisions of Geelong football is the go. The big question is who has the balls to do it.

Hypothetical. If this was the case lets say Ammos and Drysdale were in the GFL (Div 1). And North Shore and St Albans were in BFL (Div 2) (bottom 2 and top 2 from last year) would that be so bad for them as clubs. Just remember you would be taking the 2 best teams out of the BFL so i would think they would at least play finals and if not go straight back up. What would a North Shore player/supporter prefer getting thrashed all year and not winning a game or playing finals and maybe even a flag and getting their team back up to Div 1. I would prefer to win. Wouldnt that attract players to North Shore, the fact they would be a chance to play finals, what attracts players there now? Nothing really. I know its a can of worms this debate but when you look at it this way its a pretty good option.

Would a comp like this look good or what. (Based on last years results).

Division 1

Sth Barwon
St Josephs
Bell Park
St Marys
Colac
Lara
Leopold
Grovedale
Geelong Amateurs
Drysdale
GWSP
Newtown

Division 2

Torquay
Queenscliff
St Albans
North Shore
Ocean Grove
Anglesea
Portarlingotn
Barwon Heads
Bell Post Hill
East Geelong

Division 3

Werribee Centrals
Bannockburn
Thomson
Newcomb
Modewarre
Winchelsea
Inverleigh
Anakie
Nth Geelong
Corio
Geelong West
Belmont

I think it looks pretty good. It would add an exiting element to local footy especially with the chance of being relegated. I took the simple formula of promoting/relegating the 2 grand finalists but i am sure people have varying opinions of how it should be done. This sort of set up can only be positive cant it.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

Whoever mantioned the population demographics of North Shore is correct.

They just don't have the population now out there to draw juniors from like they used to.

Yes all clubs share zones with other clubs, but even comparing NS to West Saints in this area and West probably have a better zone to be finding kids from because Geelong West is a younger demographoc than the North Shore area by a bit these days.

Added to that I heard mention that Glenn Keast's kids are playinmg juniors at Geelong West now and so if kids of former great players arent playing their juniors there that won't help the club either.

 

[Roosters25]

even if there were divisions for seniors football, it would be messed up because you wouldnt be able to see the reserves or 18s play, it would be silly to happen

 

[Randy Guy]

Here here TF. The only way this will happen is if the VCFL step in, the GFL clubs would never do it otherwise.

I think the problem is if North Shore go to the GDFL it will actually get worse. They will lose a lot of players who want to play GFL therefore it may not be as effective as you think.

Three divisions of Geelong football is the go. The big question is who has the balls to do it.

Hypothetical. If this was the case lets say Ammos and Drysdale were in the GFL (Div 1). And North Shore and St Albans were in BFL (Div 2) (bottom 2 and top 2 from last year) would that be so bad for them as clubs. Just remember you would be taking the 2 best teams out of the BFL so i would think they would at least play finals and if not go straight back up. What would a North Shore player/supporter prefer getting thrashed all year and not winning a game or playing finals and maybe even a flag and getting their team back up to Div 1. I would prefer to win. Wouldnt that attract players to North Shore, the fact they would be a chance to play finals, what attracts players there now? Nothing really. I know its a can of worms this debate but when you look at it this way its a pretty good option.

Would a comp like this look good or what. (Based on last years results).

Division 1

Sth Barwon
St Josephs
Bell Park
St Marys
Colac
Lara
Leopold
Grovedale
Geelong Amateurs
Drysdale
GWSP
Newtown

Division 2

Torquay
Queenscliff
St Albans
North Shore
Ocean Grove
Anglesea
Portarlingotn
Barwon Heads
Bell Post Hill
East Geelong

Division 3

Werribee Centrals
Bannockburn
Thomson
Newcomb
Modewarre
Winchelsea
Inverleigh
Anakie
Nth Geelong
Corio
Geelong West
Belmont

I think it looks pretty good. It would add an exiting element to local footy especially with the chance of being relegated. I took the simple formula of promoting/relegating the 2 grand finalists but i am sure people have varying opinions of how it should be done. This sort of set up can only be positive cant it.

I don't mind the idea, but I'd prefer to see the promotion/relegation go on a club championship rather than just the seniors. Award 3 points for a senior win and 2 and 1 respectively for reserves and u/18s.

Make clubs become strong right through to earn promotion rather than buying it and falling over two years later.

 

[BrownSugar]

even if there were divisions for seniors football, it would be messed up because you wouldnt be able to see the reserves or 18s play, it would be silly to happen

The Reserves and Under 18s go wherever the Senior team goes. Three divisions would work and would help clubs re-group. Purely ladder-based. The GCA runs a different system but the basis of it works and it definitely helps clubs re-group and re-load. Geelong West certainly no better example having played in the past two grand finals. We need to forget how good club's Reserves and Under 18s are. Hasn't helped Joeys, Colac or Grovey lately. If Colac get relegated but their 18s are awesome, them so be it, there would be issues with their senior programme and being relegated would help them achieve that. The three-tier system would be a savior for Geelong football. If the GDFL can get over their pre-occupation with Buckleys, we'd all be in a better place.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

I mentioned it in another thread and it's relevent now given how clubs are set up.

You have to factor in the netball as well if you are going to be setting up divisions.

What if a teams football sides all finish last yet their netball sides all finish top?

You can't relegate the netball sides because the football sides suck.

Financially having the netball sides affiliated with the football clubs has been an economical success.
Take that combination of having the netball and football playing at the same time near each other would have a financial impact on how much clubs can raise on match day imo.

For mine i'm starting to think some clubs need to merge first before we start to think about divisions.

 

[dickkyboy]

Three divisions in Geelong is a brilliant idea and one that has been around for 10-15 years. One up; one down each year over the three divisions.

Talk about penalising Reserves, u/18 or netball for the performance of the senior sides is just naive. Senior Football is the big ticket item and that's where you should be judged.

Usually;

Well run clubs will move to the top; not just in Senior Football, but in Juniors, Netball etc etc. Clubs that are not run well will drop down the list. Or clubs that spend to rise will do so; and then drop down where they shold be as the money dries up.

It is the way it works.

Most competitions in Victoria and every other state in the country have a promotion/relegation system where the number of teams allow it.

The reason it hasn't been introduced in Geelong is basically self-serving. Three "Leagues" have Three "hierarchies". It is time for the committee's of the League and the VCFL to pull the carrot out of the a$#e and think about their "members" - the clubs.

Newcomb and North Shore are just two of the sides in SERIOUS trouble in Geelong and a system where they are grouped with more appropriately skilled opposition would assist not just them, but all sides in the region.

VCFL - Step In.
Football Geelong - It isn't rocket science.
Members (Clubs based in Geelong) - Continue to make noise!

 

[newtown]

i myself as a follower and a player find myself drawn to this arguement
also playing cricket i see the system put in place by the GCA a very productive and fair one .it is seen that the teams to be dropped are normaly the ones that stay strong, do well and go straight back up .This is where the geelong leagues and the head of these leagues need to look .i feel that the club champion points system should be put in place, this system to not just inclued seniors, ressies and 18s .but should also inclued the netball at all levels and junior football the future of the club .points being given on the impact such as a divi 4 under 14s side may only contribut 0.05 percent but it all helps .also inclueding a clubs financial state and there facilities into it, they points allocated might not mean much in the total but would make this system alot fairer.
this is just one opinion on a very touchy subject that needs to be really looked at in the near future

 

[The Footy Echo]

Surely North Shore's recent results put them under pressure in Newcomb are in the gun. You would have to think two clubs that have had very similar recent histories would face the same fate

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

Talk about penalising Reserves, u/18 or netball for the performance of the senior sides is just naive. Senior Football is the big ticket item and that's where you should be judged.

You can't judge a whole club on one teams performance, that's just short sighted and counter productive.

You either judge/consider the whole club or none at all.

 

[ozdevil1978]

Here here TF. The only way this will happen is if the VCFL step in, the GFL clubs would never do it otherwise.

I think the problem is if North Shore go to the GDFL it will actually get worse. They will lose a lot of players who want to play GFL therefore it may not be as effective as you think.

Three divisions of Geelong football is the go. The big question is who has the balls to do it.

Hypothetical. If this was the case lets say Ammos and Drysdale were in the GFL (Div 1). And North Shore and St Albans were in BFL (Div 2) (bottom 2 and top 2 from last year) would that be so bad for them as clubs. Just remember you would be taking the 2 best teams out of the BFL so i would think they would at least play finals and if not go straight back up. What would a North Shore player/supporter prefer getting thrashed all year and not winning a game or playing finals and maybe even a flag and getting their team back up to Div 1. I would prefer to win. Wouldnt that attract players to North Shore, the fact they would be a chance to play finals, what attracts players there now? Nothing really. I know its a can of worms this debate but when you look at it this way its a pretty good option.

Would a comp like this look good or what. (Based on last years results).

Division 1

Sth Barwon
St Josephs
Bell Park
St Marys
Colac
Lara
Leopold
Grovedale
Geelong Amateurs
Drysdale
GWSP
Newtown

Division 2

Torquay
Queenscliff
St Albans
North Shore
Ocean Grove
Anglesea
Portarlingotn
Barwon Heads
Bell Post Hill
East Geelong

Division 3

Werribee Centrals
Bannockburn
Thomson
Newcomb
Modewarre
Winchelsea
Inverleigh
Anakie
Nth Geelong
Corio
Geelong West
Belmont

I think it looks pretty good. It would add an exiting element to local footy especially with the chance of being relegated. I took the simple formula of promoting/relegating the 2 grand finalists but i am sure people have varying opinions of how it should be done. This sort of set up can only be positive cant it.

i'd love to see this format happen but football geelong would never do it anyway so no use thinking bout it!!!

 

[soaringeagle]

its about time that the VCFL had a real look at the crisis of football in geelong and not just the struggling clubs. it does no favours for the entire league focusing on the weaker clubs, every club needs to be taken into consideration.
This 3 tier league is a brilliant idea and one that should be implemented within the next 5 years, it will give stronger clubs in weaker leagues some reward and you might find that weaker clubs will rise to the occasion if a punishment is put in place for falling last.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

All a 3 division system does is sweep any real issues under the carpet by pushing struggling clubs out of the spotlight and burying them in division 3.

The "As long as the top division is strong is all that matters" attitude is what has lead to English Soccer being a complete farce and clubs going to the wall all the time.

Punishing weak clubs wont do anything to save them in the long run, it'll just put them out of business.

 

[muttonchops]

All a 3 division system does is sweep any real issues under the carpet by pushing struggling clubs out of the spotlight and burying them in division 3.

The "As long as the top division is strong is all that matters" attitude is what has lead to English Soccer being a complete farce and clubs going to the wall all the time.

Punishing weak clubs wont do anything to save them in the long run, it'll just put them out of business.

I disagree with that. If you have a look at the 3 divisions i proposed earlier yes the top division is strong but i think the 2nd divison is stronger than the current BFL. As for the 3rd division how can a more even division be a weak competition. Yes the quality may not be there but the evenness would make it a good comp.

The idea of having a struggling club drop a division weather it be to Div 2 or 3 is so that they dont struggle as much. As it is teams such as North Shore have no incentive as it will take years to recover but in a lower division the have more wins earlier.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

I think if you introduce the 3 tier option some teams will fold.

Take for example the BFL.

Most of the players are probably local lads who live down around the coast and that makes it easier for trave/training etc.

Hypothetically what happens when a few BFL clubs are in divvy 3 and all of a sudden they might have to be travelling to places like Werribee, Modewarre, Bannockburn etc

All of a sudden those teams start struggling even more because the average player might not want to travel all that way as they were more content on just playing their footy down around the coast.

How do you factor in these situations or do you just take the line it wont ever happen.

 

[muttonchops]

I think if you introduce the 3 tier option some teams will fold.

Take for example the BFL.

Most of the players are probably local lads who live down around the coast and that makes it easier for trave/training etc.

Hypothetically what happens when a few BFL clubs are in divvy 3 and all of a sudden they might have to be travelling to places like Werribee, Modewarre, Bannockburn etc

All of a sudden those teams start struggling even more because the average player might not want to travel all that way as they were more content on just playing their footy down around the coast.

How do you factor in these situations or do you just take the line it wont ever happen.

Well for starters BFL clubs already to travel out to Modewarre as they are actually in the BFL already. So that shouldnt be a problem. It doesnt seem to be a problem for Colac who have to travel to Geelong every second week. It doesnt seem to be a problem for Werribee Centrals who have to travel out to Bannock and Inverleigh. Queenscliff to Anglesea isnt such a short trip either but those teams dont seem to have a probelm. I think the travel factor doesnt really cut it as a reason not to do this. The example above are proof of that.