Offseason illicit drug tests - now with new thread title

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boondy said:
What about that gag order years back when the drug results blew down the footpath . We all know the club . Soft as a feather the AFL . I hate drugs would rather have zero tolerance . Send the right message Ban the players
Its a mental health pandemic DRUGS . Only morons use them
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Actually studies have shown that intelligent people use illicit drugs noticeably more than less intelligent people. I'm sorry if you or someone you know were negatively affected by illicit substance abuse but on the whole, it's really not that big of a deal.
 
Abasi said:
There's no hypocrisy in my position at all... And if you could actually comprehend it, you'd see that.

The original post I responded to suggested that the only difference between the Eagles and Hawthorn drug culture was that Hawthorn's players privacy was respected, while the Eagles were headhunted by an unforgiving media.

The fact is, Hawthorn did not have players punching on in night clubs, saluting mobsters in prison during games, the coach asking for an investigation into drug use by the players, players outrunning police, former players OD'ing while partying with the captain of the club, a player OD'ing on an end of season trip, players recorded taking about what Special K feels like....the list goes on and on.

Hawthorn's players medical records being stolen and published is not even close to comparable with the long list of things that happened at the Eagles in the mid 2000's.
That's the point.

Drugs are a massive part of society and football clubs, but the reason the Eagles were all over the papers wasn't because the media had a vendetta or that there was some Victorian bias showing through, it was because what was going on at the Eagles was at another level all together.
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This post just highlights your hypocrisy further. Both clubs broke the rules, just to varying levels. Yet you feel hawthorns is justifiable because it was to a lesser extent than the Eagles. Do you not see the irony in sticking up for someone who broke the law in taking drugs, yet hiding behind the law to protect them?

And I'm not sticking up for the Eagles here, they got what they deserved.
 
shoebox said:
This post just highlights your hypocrisy further. Both clubs broke the rules, just to varying levels. Yet you feel hawthorns is justifiable because it was to a lesser extent than the Eagles. Do you not see the irony in sticking up for someone who broke the law in taking drugs, yet hiding behind the law to protect them?

And I'm not sticking up for the Eagles here, they got what they deserved.
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I think you're missing the point. You're approaching this from a very simple, were players from X club taking illicit drugs? Yes or no? If you can step back from the legality issues you'd see that from a football club perspective, this sort of drug use is only harmful as much as it is harmful to the mental/physical health of the players involved and the image of the club. On the facts known, it's pretty clear that one of these cases was far more damaging to the players involved and the club than the other. Every club has players that indulge, not every club had the established culture and behaviour of the Eagles.
 

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shoebox said:
This post just highlights your hypocrisy further. Both clubs broke the rules, just to varying levels. Yet you feel hawthorns is justifiable because it was to a lesser extent than the Eagles. Do you not see the irony in sticking up for someone who broke the law in taking drugs, yet hiding behind the law to protect them?

And I'm not sticking up for the Eagles here, they got what they deserved.
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How are you still missing the point after all this?

I'm not justifying Hawthorn's drug use, I'm saying Eagles fans who think their club was unjustly targeted have zero understanding of the level of s**t going on at that club that the AFL just couldn't keep out of the media.
 
JeffDunne said:
As much as people like to blame the AFL for every perceived problem in football, they aren't the problem here.

Clubs will protect players as much as they can from every anti-social activity known to man if it keeps a player on the field. Eddie & Collingwood, like always, are more concerned with the press than they are the substance of the story (pardon the pun).

An extended family member of mine was drafted into the AFL about 7 years ago. The first club he was with thought it would be a good idea to house 4-5 young blokes together in a city where they didn't have any family and friends. Don't need to be an expert on human behaviour to know how that ends up.

A couple of years later he wound up with a Melbourne based club where he was given a list of players to avoid socialising with. A list that included around a dozen team-mates!

Clubs know players will do drugs. They just don't want to know the details (unless it hits the press) or are prepared to ignore the players that are a problem if they are still performing on the field.

The clubs believe they can manage it.

The players obviously don't want to be tested.

So it really is not something the AFL can address unless clubs are prepared to act.

Eddie's denials are as hollow as they have always been.
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Who do you think votes in the AFL commision which is the controller of the AFL, don't separate the clubs from the AFL, they are the AFL, they vote in who is going to operate the AFL under the way they want. If they get an individual who believes in different ideals to that of what the clubs are looking for he or she simply won't be voted in by the clubs!

It confuses me why people call out the AFL and act as though they aren't controlled by the clubs!
 
Kram81 said:
If I had to take a guess I reckon easily about 1/3 of young people would use illegal stuff regularly to at least occasionally.
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In the years that I was finishing up footy, I had noticed that a bunch of the younger guys spent a fair portion of the night at the pub in the toilets, sharing a cubicle, and not drinking much. We all knew they loved the pingers, and is older blokes would joke about it, but it was a new thing for a country footy club with a big drinking culture and a pub as a major sponsor.
In the years prior, pretty much every guy at my club was smashing piss all night, every time we hit the pub.

Went back to my club's ball the year after retiring and an even greater portion of young blokes who'd joined the club were not drinking, but still buzzing all night long.

Over a period of just a few years, the culture around how you spend your Saturday nights after a game changed quite a bit, and I know I wasn't the only older bloke who noticed the change, as clubs in the area started holding nights where they talked about the concerns with drug use.
 
GFrost said:
Didn't the Pies take a pledge halfway through 2010 to stop taking drugs to try to win the flag?
However, this part would make me feel a little annoyed if I was a Pies supporter:
Sources said there was at least two other clubs with higher readings than Collingwood and several clubs in the vicinity of Magpies’ results.
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thank you - I know this probably naïve , but herald sun journos WTF???
 
Nakia said:
The dickhead who lives up the road from me who drove his car through a roundabout and straight through the bedroom of a house. Tell that to the parents of the child who was struck and now has brain damage.
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But he's in jail for a car accident, not for smoking pot

Pot didn't do a thing - it was the fool who thought driving was a good idea
 
shoebox said:
70% of people / players as a cross section of society take drugs... Wow. You must live in the badlands if this is your reality. I'm willing to foster you bro, life's not actually like that. PM, we'll take you in
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99.9% of people use drugs - alcohol and tobacco far far far more deadly

KFC more deadly than weed
 
Frankly I'm surprised it's not more. Recreational drug use is so widespread these days.
 

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TreloartoMoore said:
But he's in jail for a car accident, not for smoking pot

Pot didn't do a thing - it was the fool who thought driving was a good idea
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??
Generally speaking if you have a car ACCiDENT and it's an actual accident even if it causes a death you don't end up in jail but if you have drugs or alcohol in your system you are then driving illegally and will end up in jail!

The reason for this is the chance of having an accident whilst under the influence is far greater which why we have a law that prevents this I turn making it illegal!

Don't you have any regard for the law?
 
marty36 said:
??
Generally speaking if you have a car ACCiDENT and it's an actual accident even if it causes a death you don't end up in jail but if you have drugs or alcohol in your system you are then driving illegally and will end up in jail!

The reason for this is the chance of having an accident whilst under the influence is far greater which why we have a law that prevents this I turn making it illegal!

Don't you have any regard for the law?
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Have you ever jaywalked? Sped? Run a red light?

If you speed, drive your car into a house, and kill someone you are going to jail most likely.

People break laws all the time, every day, regularly. Weed is legal in like 10 US states. These are not clear cut things
 
marty36 said:
They may or may not but it is irrelevant, they are not illegal, the government that us the majority of Australuan people voted in will determine the laws, as we voted them in to do this on our behalf!
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I like how you have this theory that the government is a) voted in by a majority all the time and b) reflects the values of the average citizen and makes laws based on that

For some reason gay marriage is illegal, mainly because the church thinks they own the word marriage, we get to vote on it later this year and the result means nothing because those in power don't want to leave it up to what the people want.

The arguments against making some recreational drugs illegal are just as or more valid for alcohol and tobacco never mind fast food but those 3 have lots of $$ behind them.

I think marijuana is making its way off the list, it has in some parts of the world already and can now be used medically in Victoria, part of that is the law makers bowing to pressure from society but it has been a long time coming.
 
Gralin said:
I like how you have this theory that the government is a) voted in by a majority all the time and b) reflects the values of the average citizen and makes laws based on that

For some reason gay marriage is illegal, mainly because the church thinks they own the word marriage, we get to vote on it later this year and the result means nothing because those in power don't want to leave it up to what the people want.

The arguments against making some recreational drugs illegal are just as or more valid for alcohol and tobacco never mind fast food but those 3 have lots of $$ behind them.

I think marijuana is making its way off the list, it has in some parts of the world already and can now be used medically in Victoria, part of that is the law makers bowing to pressure from society but it has been a long time coming.
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In South Australia it is an on the spot fine has been for years, but is still illegal. To question the government and how it is elected is ridiculous, if you want to change it there is nothing stopping you from running and if the majority of people agree with you, guess what you will gain a seat and have influence. It's a bit like people complaining about certain sporting organisations that are run by volunteers but won't put their hand up and volunteer themselves?
 
TreloartoMoore said:
Have you ever jaywalked? Sped? Run a red light?

If you speed, drive your car into a house, and kill someone you are going to jail most likely.

People break laws all the time, every day, regularly. Weed is legal in like 10 US states. These are not clear cut things
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Yes they are all illegal and we abide by them, if you don't you suffer the consequences, you are aware we live in Australia not the US and the laws are determined by the australian government that majority of the Australuan people voted in. They may or may not be right, I might have a Ferrari and want to drive at ,250 km h but the law will catch me and I must live with the consequences whether they be monetary or jail time! The law is the law and we as a country voted it in effectively!
 
marty36 said:
In South Australia it is an on the spot fine has been for years, but is still illegal. To question the government and how it is elected is ridiculous, if you want to change it there is nothing stopping you from running and if the majority of people agree with you, guess what you will gain a seat and have influence. It's a bit like people complaining about certain sporting organisations that are run by volunteers but won't put their hand up and volunteer themselves?
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More your lack of understanding of how voting works, we get minority governments, we get seats in the Senate decided by party preferences not primary votes, though that last one may finally change next election.
I was disagreeing with your comment that the government is always voted for by the majority and that it always does what the majority want.

And if you think questioning the government is ridiculous you might just have an issue with people disagreeing with you.

The government should be questioned, they are people they get things wrong and have their own prejudices and not all of them have the same view, same as the rest of us.
 
marty36 said:
Yes they are all illegal and we abide by them, if you don't you suffer the consequences, you are aware we live in Australia not the US and the laws are determined by the australian government that majority of the Australuan people voted in. They may or may not be right, I might have a Ferrari and want to drive at ,250 km h but the law will catch me and I must live with the consequences whether they be monetary or jail time! The law is the law and we as a country voted it in effectively!
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I don't really understand the point you are making. Is it that because marijuana is "illegal" that it should never ever be used in Australia.

I understand your point, but here's where I don't agree:

1). people do use it - I have
2). I'm from a country town and when I was young cops would bust us regularly - the consequences "c'mon boys pack it up and go home"
3). Ever seen a magistrate rule on a minor marijuana case? No conviction recorded, small donation to the court fund.

I would submit to you that marijuana is not truly "illegal".
If you drive on marijuana and hurt someone, then without a doubt you're in trouble. But that's also the case for speeding, running a red light, doing burn outs, drinking, falling asleep at the wheels etc
 
TreloartoMoore said:
I'm more than happy to have this conversation with you if you want. I think rolling your eyes is pretty passive aggressive - BigFooty doesn't have to be so nasty
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Your previous narrow minded response is indicative of this country as a whole.
 
Nakia said:
Your previous narrow minded response is indicative of this country as a whole.
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Again, let's chat if you want.
Dismissing me is a pretty narrow minded thing to do. You don't gain anything by pretending I have nothing of value to contribute

I assume you see a difference between using drugs, and driving whilst under the influence of drugs.
We can drink 10 beers in our living rooms whilst watching footy. Most see that as no issue.
If you drink 10 beers and drive. That's an issue.
People smoke joints in their living rooms (incidentally, I don't smoke marijuana or take any illicit drugs)
I think that's fine.
If they smoke then drive, then that's different. I don't think that's fine.

That's my point.
 
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