Oh celtic pride

[Shagga#6]

Care to revisted your opinion of the Roos?

You've been trashing us all summer, rating the Blues as a 10 goal better side. How's the humble pie celtic pride?

Thommo wasn't such a dud was he? certainly had more influence than the reborn Whitnal.

For the record I think the Roos and Blues are very closely matched, and will battling it out for a spot around 8th.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

Care to revisted your opinion of the Roos?

You've been trashing us all summer, rating the Blues as a 10 goal better side. How's the humble pie celtic pride?

Thommo wasn't such a dud was he? certainly had more influence than the reborn Whitnal.

For the record I think the Roos and Blues are very closely matched, and will battling it out for a spot around 8th.

Thompson went ok, admitedly not against much opposition.

For what was required to get him i don't think he was worth it.

 

[celtic_pride]

Care to revisted your opinion of the Roos?

You've been trashing us all summer, rating the Blues as a 10 goal better side. How's the humble pie celtic pride?

Thommo wasn't such a dud was he? certainly had more influence than the reborn Whitnal.

For the record I think the Roos and Blues are very closely matched, and will battling it out for a spot around 8th.

Well admittedly I have egg on my face and well Thompson did play pretty well, but Carlton played pretty poorly I thought (our deliverly into the foward 50 was atroctious) the only ones who played decently for 4 quarters were stevens and Kouta.
Still think the Blues have a better list than the Roos, but on the way we were beaten by the better side.

 

[Shagga#6]

Glad to the see the egg wasn't so thick you could actually own up to it.

We'll have to agree to disagree on your opinion of the Roos vs the Blues list.

I think our lists are pretty evenly matched. Where you have a better quality forward (Fev), we have a better quality spread in our backline.

Stevens and on his day Kouta are fantastic midfielers, but I think the Roos have greater depth in the midfield stocks.

Even if Thornton and Livo had been fit, without a flood I don't think they could have kept Sav and Thommo down all day.

So, again we shall wait and see how both teams shape up, and if the Roos can shake the end of season shcoking form we've had recently. I'm tipping Round 22 2005 the Roos and Blues will be bothing busting for a win for a shot in the 8.

 

[celtic_pride]

Glad to the see the egg wasn't so thick you could actually own up to it.

We'll have to agree to disagree on your opinion of the Roos vs the Blues list.

I think our lists are pretty evenly matched. Where you have a better quality forward (Fev), we have a better quality spread in our backline.

Stevens and on his day Kouta are fantastic midfielers, but I think the Roos have greater depth in the midfield stocks.

Even if Thornton and Livo had been fit, without a flood I don't think they could have kept Sav and Thommo down all day.

So, again we shall wait and see how both teams shape up, and if the Roos can shake the end of season shcoking form we've had recently. I'm tipping Round 22 2005 the Roos and Blues will be bothing busting for a win for a shot in the 8.

Yeah you might be right, Leigh Brown was sensational on the w/end although the delievery to Fevola was pretty poor IMO.
I'm not sure if Carlton can make the eight now that T-Bird is out for so long, he is crucial to our backline, our weakest area.

 

[Silvagnis]

Glad to the see the egg wasn't so thick you could actually own up to it.

We'll have to agree to disagree on your opinion of the Roos vs the Blues list.

I think our lists are pretty evenly matched. Where you have a better quality forward (Fev), we have a better quality spread in our backline.

Stevens and on his day Kouta are fantastic midfielers, but I think the Roos have greater depth in the midfield stocks.

Even if Thornton and Livo had been fit, without a flood I don't think they could have kept Sav and Thommo down all day.

So, again we shall wait and see how both teams shape up, and if the Roos can shake the end of season shcoking form we've had recently. I'm tipping Round 22 2005 the Roos and Blues will be bothing busting for a win for a shot in the 8.

I wouldn't say your backline is any better because one game doesn't make Shannon Watt a good player. Lynch killed him in the WOK whilst Livingston did the job on Lynch in the final. Missing Thornton was a huge loss for Carlton as he's one of the best young key defenders in the league and one of the players we obviously can't afford to lose. We conceded more goals because our midfield wasn't putting any pressure on yours as they ran forward.

 

[Shagga#6]

I'd take Colbert Brown and Watt over Thornton, Morrell and Livo any day.

Watt is not great on players like Fev, Lynch and Gehrig I'll grant you, but I still think he's a better backman than Morrell.

I'd take Brown over Livo.

And I'd take Colbert over Thornton ATM. But I'll admitt that I haven't seen enough of Thornton to pass judgement, and he seems to have big raps from neutrals around this place.

 

[juzza316]

I'd take Colbert Brown and Watt over Thornton, Morrell and Livo any day.

Watt is not great on players like Fev, Lynch and Gehrig I'll grant you, but I still think he's a better backman than Morrell.

I'd take Brown over Livo.

And I'd take Colbert over Thornton ATM. But I'll admitt that I haven't seen enough of Thornton to pass judgement, and he seems to have big raps from neutrals around this place.

Your probably right about the first two comparisons, but Thornton ********es all over Colbert......even Brown for that matter. Colbert is starting to get old and injuries have, and will never let him get the best out of his body.

 

[Kooley]

I'd take Colbert Brown and Watt over Thornton, Morrell and Livo any day.

Watt is not great on players like Fev, Lynch and Gehrig I'll grant you, but I still think he's a better backman than Morrell.

I'd take Brown over Livo.

And I'd take Colbert over Thornton ATM. But I'll admitt that I haven't seen enough of Thornton to pass judgement, and he seems to have big raps from neutrals around this place.

Brown is excellent. A real find for you guys since moving accross from Freo. Thornton on the otherhand is establishlishing himself as one of the premier key position players in the competition. His decision making under pressure, poise and ability to shut out key forwards is as another poster said crucial to our team structure. You only have to look at the job Thornton did on Brad Miller recently who IMO is one of the best young CHF's in the competition to realise how good he is.

 

[Shagga#6]

Well I will certainly try to keep my eye on Thornton next time I catch the Blues to assess for myself.

You may want to reassess for opnion of Colbert though Juzza. Was in AA form until he got injured last year, and its now not like Buckley that his hamstrings are a prob, it just that people (somethiems his teammates) crash into him.

Colbert is a top liner make no mistake.

 

[Z_K]

Thornton is a frickin gun. Rate him very highly.

Watt needs a solid month of games like last week before I can be convinced he has improved his game generally. Brown is our most important player, and Colby is not far behind.

I think both clubs have excellent no.1's in Brown and Thornton, and adequate if unreliable supports in Livingston and Watt. Colbert is better than Carltons 3rd tall, and Joel Perry is the best teenage defensive prospect on either list and the best defensive prospect I have seen at North. Ever.

 

[Funkalicous]

Personally I would take Thornton > Watt, Brown & Colbert. He plays like there's 3 of him anyway.

 

[Shagga#6]

Still think the Blues have a better list than the Roos, but on the way we were beaten by the better side.

Care to revise this opinion celtic_pride?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Well done Shagga; I respect those of us who dredge up this stuff to shove it in the faces of the unbelieving.

 

[Shagga#6]

Funkyzeit mit Matt - wasn't really looking to "shove it in the faces on the unbelieving".

celtic_pride and I had civil debate about the merits of our respective lists, and I'd be interested to see if he/she has changed their mind since the start of the year.

I certainly wouldn't have banked on Petrie's return to form.

I always thought Thommo would be good for us and well worth the price of picks 10 and 26, and I think he has proved that so far. We'd didn't need another two kids, we needed a stroing leading forward with 4-5 years of footy left in him, and we got one. He performed better than Ottens at this stage, but time will tell on than one.

I also didn't think Carlton would be rooted to the bottom either, but I still did (and still do) think North's list is better, and at a more advanced stage of rebuilding than Carlton's.

Will be interested to see what celtic has to say.

 

[celtic_pride]

Funkyzeit mit Matt - wasn't really looking to "shove it in the faces on the unbelieving".

celtic_pride and I had civil debate about the merits of our respective lists, and I'd be interested to see if he/she has changed their mind since the start of the year.

I certainly wouldn't have banked on Petrie's return to form.

I always thought Thommo would be good for us and well worth the price of picks 10 and 26, and I think he has proved that so far. We'd didn't need another two kids, we needed a stroing leading forward with 4-5 years of footy left in him, and we got one. He performed better than Ottens at this stage, but time will tell on than one.

I also didn't think Carlton would be rooted to the bottom either, but I still did (and still do) think North's list is better, and at a more advanced stage of rebuilding than Carlton's.

Will be interested to see what celtic has to say.

All I can say is that I'm surprised at North's progess and dismayed at the downfall of Carlton.

 

[Shagga#6]

What do you think will be Pagan's receipe for revival?

Do you think he'll do a Hawthorn/Ricmond, trade players still worth something for picks and just draft as many good kids as he can?

You would certainly gain some decent picks for players like Whitnal and Campo, who while that have been favourite sons, will not be there for the next revival of the club if it takews another 3 - 5 years to get back to the top again.

Or do you think he'll take the approach of trying to stay competitive and only pick up a couple of kids?

 

[celtic_pride]

What do you think will be Pagan's receipe for revival?

Do you think he'll do a Hawthorn/Ricmond, trade players still worth something for picks and just draft as many good kids as he can?

You would certainly gain some decent picks for players like Whitnal and Campo, who while that have been favourite sons, will not be there for the next revival of the club if it takews another 3 - 5 years to get back to the top again.

Or do you think he'll take the approach of trying to stay competitive and only pick up a couple of kids?

To be honest I'm not sure at all now if Pagan is the right person to lead Carlton for the next 5 years. I don't think Carlton has any option but to draft kids esp with the early draft picks and stop with Pagan's perchant for recycling players from other clubs. I know he had great success with recycled players at North, but honestly I don't think the club goes anywhere picking up the likes of Cory Mcgrath, Brett Johnson, Troy Longmuir, Callum Chambers etc. I don't think our first or second round picks should be traded this year at any cost unless for something impossible (IE J.Brown)
I am also unsure if Pagan does have the patience with the younger players (certainly I would have liked him to have played the likes of Jordan Russell sooner)
I would get rid of at least 10 players at seasons end and just go for youth.

 

[Shagga#6]

It is starnge how Pagan is not so keen on the nuturing of youth and wanting battle ready warriors instead, given that he was an under 19s coach for quite some time.

I think the key to having success recycling players if is that you have a stong base to build around, like North did during the 90's.

I think taking the pain and getting the best kids you can is the way to go from where Carlton is. Trade players of value for better picks, particualrly players of value who are a bit older.

As much as it pained me to see Bell and Pickett go, they have been good trades for us to get some better kids in at a time when we didn't have great draft picks (in terms of position).

 

[celtic_pride]

It is starnge how Pagan is not so keen on the nuturing of youth and wanting battle ready warriors instead, given that he was an under 19s coach for quite some time.

I think the key to having success recycling players if is that you have a stong base to build around, like North did during the 90's.

I think taking the pain and getting the best kids you can is the way to go from where Carlton is. Trade players of value for better picks, particualrly players of value who are a bit older.

As much as it pained me to see Bell and Pickett go, they have been good trades for us to get some better kids in at a time when we didn't have great draft picks (in terms of position).

That is true, I think the Roos got Leigh Brown as part of the Pickett trade and managed to pick up Daniel Harris as part of the bell Deal. Am I right ?
North have always traded well I thought, they picked up Nathan Thompson rather cheaply from Hawthorn as well.

 

[mojo31]

It is starnge how Pagan is not so keen on the nuturing of youth and wanting battle ready warriors instead, given that he was an under 19s coach for quite some time.

I think the key to having success recycling players if is that you have a stong base to build around, like North did during the 90's.

I think taking the pain and getting the best kids you can is the way to go from where Carlton is. Trade players of value for better picks, particualrly players of value who are a bit older.

As much as it pained me to see Bell and Pickett go, they have been good trades for us to get some better kids in at a time when we didn't have great draft picks (in terms of position).

Not sure we can judge Pagan yet on his recruiting policies. He had very little choice in 2003 but to draft recycled players to try and make us competitive.
Last year he took Russell with pick 9, Hartlett with pick 25, Blackwell with pick 41 (father/son), taded our 4th and 5th round to get Chambers and Longmuir. Drafted Chris Bryan with pick 73 and a bottom aged development player in Raso at pick 77.
Apart from Longmuir and Chambers with our 4th and 5th round I would not be to unhappy with that. Aisake was rookied and going well in the VFL reserves.
Smith and Setanta are likely to be promoted at the end of the year off the rookie list. Becker might also be. Batson is a possibility. The only rookie struggling is Pleming who will be cut.
Lets wait and see what Pagan does with his trading. The priority pick (cant see us not getting one now) and the first round pick will not be traded. I however hope that the 2nd round plus are not traded either. I would like to see the club trade some players to get even more picks.
Lance for starters. If Lappin is unhappy with a 2 year deal then lets see if any other club is interested.
If Pagan delists almost all the recyled players (contracts withstanding) and drafts in youngsters then we will know it was just a stop gap measure and not what Pagan would have done with full access to the draft.

Come on people its not Pagans fault that Parkin/Brittain/O'Sullivan drafted and traded terrible for 10 years. Pagan only has so much to work with. We can judge the guy after the draft and see where his intent is. If he wanted a quick fix he would not have signed up for another 3 years. He is in it for the long haul. That means the draft and youngsters.
If he wanted the easy option he would have left to coach Freo at the end of the year. You know they would take him if he was not signed up.

 

[Shagga#6]

celtic - you are correct we got Brown when we on traded pick 15 from Port for Pickett to Freo for Brown. We also got a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Byron which we used to get Perry a developing tall defender who looks decent.

We didn't actually get Harris as part of the Bell deal, we got picks 6 (Dlyan Smith - mistake), pick 8 (D Motlop - love the boy) and Jess Sinclair. We got Harro that year, but with our existing pick.

We all have bad picks, and ours was Smith. Selected as a replacement for Bell, small in and under, smart user of the ball, Vic metro captin I think from memory. Smith is now with Freo, somes fans wonder if he'd do the reverse Bell.

Very happy with the Thommo deal. A little risky given his illness, and many folks from other teams and some Hawks fans thought we'd paid above the price for Thommo, but I think it was a fair deal, and he's been good.