OT -Gallipoli Dawn Service

[CaptainDangerfield]

Anyone else been to the dawn service at Anazac Cove. Amazing experience, very humbling.

The following plaque says it all:

 

[jenny61_99]

Haven't been but it's on my list of things to do. Went down to our local park this morning for the Anzac Day ceremony thinking there'd only be a small crowd - how wrong I was - more than 1000 in attendance.

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

Not as yet, I plan on going to Gallipoli twice, I want to go there for a dawn service, but I also want to go there when there isnt so many people there so I can spend some time in the battlefields.

I have been to the battlefields of Europe, mainly France and Belgium and that was a very moving experience, I can imagine Gallipoli would be even more so.

Springy, that quote from Ataturk is a very good quote, I have seen it many times before but everytime I read it I still get the hairs stand up on the back of the neck.

 

[tribey]

With all the stories of the place getting gradually eroded and degraded by the increasing number of pilgrims and the Turkish government which keeps adding infrastructure to accommodate them all, turning over the topography and remains in the process, I'd like to see the trip limited to direct descendants and relevant dignitaries - as controversial as that would be.

Just not sure what a bunch of unrelated Contiki tourists trampling all over the joint achieves in the long run - except to ruin the place completely for future generations - at the very least they could pick up their litter after they've ticked it off their to-do list.

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

With all the stories of the place getting gradually eroded and degraded by the increasing number of pilgrims and the Turkish government which keeps adding infrastructure to accommodate them all, turning over the topography and remains in the process, I'd like to see the trip limited to direct descendants and relevant dignitaries - as controversial as that would be.

Just not sure what a bunch of unrelated Contiki tourists trampling all over the joint achieves in the long run - except to ruin the place completely for future generations - at the very least they could pick up their litter after they've ticked it off their to-do list.

Ban most Australians from going to Gallipoli?

Good luck with that proposal

 

[tribey]

Ban most Australians from going to Gallipoli?

Good luck with that proposal

So as more and more go and as the Turkish government bulldozes more and more of the area to build roads, amenities and the rest of it, there won't be a Gallipoli left as we know it.

Ah well, at least the Fanatics got to see it once on the way to embarrassing the rest of the country at another international sporting event.

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

So as more and more go and as the Turkish government bulldozes more and more of the area to build roads, amenities and the rest of it, there won't be a Gallipoli left as we know it.

Ah well, at least the Fanatics got to see it once on the way to embarrassing the rest of the country at another international sporting event.

I had to cringe when I saw all the people with the fanatics shirts on.

At least try and be dignified about it.

 

[Markthirtytwo]

As much as Botany Bay is the birthplace of the nation, this place is the birthplace of us as a nation and our ethos.

A must to do for every Australian.

 

[tribey]

As much as Botany Bay is the birthplace of the nation, this place is the birthplace of us as a nation and our ethos.

A must to do for every Australian.

In the right context.

Recently it's become something of a sexy to-do, to say you have been, rather than the solemn pilgrimage to visit the site where one lost an ancestor or fellow digger.

As I've said a couple of times now, the place is being degraded more and more each year, both by the attendees and the Turkish government - where do we begin to draw the line to actually preserve the place?

After all, it is a sacred site where the flower of Australia's youth fought and died for their country - it isn't a theme park, which unfortunately a lot tend to treat it as when they trample through and leave their garbage behind.

There has to be a balance or there'll be nothing left.

This Age Editorial from 2005 pretty much sums it up:

Anzac Cove: minister ducks for cover again
October 16, 2005

ANZAC Cove is a pivotal place in the Australian imagination. John Howard understands this all too well. That is why he made the curious suggestion in April that the site — the sovereign territory of another nation — should be placed on Australia's national heritage list.

It was a notion given short shrift by the Turkish Government, which scarcely needed to remind the supplicant prime minister that the Gallipoli Peninsula is, after all, not part of the Australian landscape. Mr Howard's diversionary move needs, however, to be seen in the context of the colossal blundering that occurred at the site shortly before, largely at the behest of the Australian Government.

Not only is Anzac Cove deeply significant to Australians, but there is a real danger of them loving it to death. Long ignored, the site of the defining campaign of an infant nation in World War I has become a place of constant pilgrimage. Over the past decade, an increasing number of Australians of all ages have come to the place. While still relatively remote, it has become just another stop on the backpacker trail. On Anzac Day itself, the date commemorating the initial landing of what would become a spectacular military failure, around 20,000 mainly young Australians and New Zealanders now gather — almost twice as many as the number who took the beach and some of the nearby hills in 1915.

The solemnity of the official commemorations has been overtaken in part by the festivities attached to the arrival of a human tide dominated by backpackers in their 20s. Last April, the incongruity of the Bee Gees hits Stayin' Alive and You Should Be Dancin' being played to the waiting crowd was not lost on those angered by what had occurred in the weeks before.

Last Thursday, a Senate committee handed down a damning report into the Government's failure to investigate bungled roadworks at the site of the Gallipoli landings. Those works, which historians say have radically altered the original landscape and destroyed some features altogether, apparently unearthed some human remains that had lain undisturbed on the battlefield. The debacle came to light after it was reported extensively in The Sunday Age and The Age earlier this year. Despite desperate attempts by the Government to play down the impact of the project, which it had encouraged the Turkish authorities to undertake, the physical damage wrought by the bulldozers is done.

Journalist and Gallipoli historian Les Carlyon bemoans the fact that the original route of the diggers inland from the cove has been fairly well obliterated. Instead, there is now a wider road and extensive car parking, including a VIP section, aimed at catering for the one day of the year when the big crowds come.

Last week's Senate finding merely confirms what many independent witnesses have already recorded. It goes almost without saying that the Federal Government has rejected the committee's conclusions, including that the Government failed to safeguard the site properly or work with the Turkish authorities to preserve its integrity.

While Veterans Affairs Minister De-Anne Kelly was dismissive of the findings, the debacle and its aftermath haven't stopped her from moving to unceremoniously bundle out retired air vice-marshal Gary Beck as head of the war graves office. Mr Beck, who visited the site repeatedly before and during the roadworks, should have reported what was happening. He failed to do so, arguing it was not part of his brief. By failing to act, Mr Beck has offered himself up as a convenient scapegoat for the person who should be held to account: Minister Kelly. It seems that her failure will go unpunished. But that is scarcely a surprise in a Government where the doctrine of ministerial responsibility was bulldozed long ago by a PM who holds that Westminster convention in contempt.

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

I hear what you are saying DT and it is a valid point but I just dont see what can be done about it.

You cannot ban people from going. Maybe they could sell tickets, with all proceeds going to a veterans charity or something, thus limiting the numbers allowed.

Just allowing distant relatives is not fair as that place means just as much to you and I but I didnt have a known relative there.

 

[Punchy Bassett]

So as more and more go and as the Turkish government bulldozes more and more of the area to build roads, amenities and the rest of it, there won't be a Gallipoli left as we know it.

Ah well, at least the Fanatics got to see it once on the way to embarrassing the rest of the country at another international sporting event.

The Fanatics would have to be one of the biggest embarrassments to this country.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Not as yet, I plan on going to Gallipoli twice, I want to go there for a dawn service, but I also want to go there when there isnt so many people there so I can spend some time in the battlefields.

I have been to the battlefields of Europe, mainly France and Belgium and that was a very moving experience, I can imagine Gallipoli would be even more so.

Springy, that quote from Ataturk is a very good quote, I have seen it many times before but everytime I read it I still get the hairs stand up on the back of the neck.

Yep definately mate. Shows the amount of respect the Turks had for the Anzacs.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

With all the stories of the place getting gradually eroded and degraded by the increasing number of pilgrims and the Turkish government which keeps adding infrastructure to accommodate them all, turning over the topography and remains in the process, I'd like to see the trip limited to direct descendants and relevant dignitaries - as controversial as that would be.

Just not sure what a bunch of unrelated Contiki tourists trampling all over the joint achieves in the long run - except to ruin the place completely for future generations - at the very least they could pick up their litter after they've ticked it off their to-do list.

Very true. The only disappointment for me was some elements of the crowd. I was amazed how many people, especially some Kiwis, were drunk. Some have no idea of the true meaning and use it as another drunken stop on their tour of Europe. I was half expecting the cringeable and embarrassing "Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, OI, OI, OI".

 

[jenny61_99]

I am amazed at the apparent surge of interest in Anzac Day and Gallipoli. I remember going to the Anzac Day march in Canberra with my dad (he served in WWII and Korea). It was a HUGE day then, but as I grew older and more and more diggers died, there wasnt as much interest. Certainly since my dad died 15 years ago, I have always remembered him on Anzac Day but have never gone to a march or service since I was a kid. I was amazed at the numbers of young people there this morning. It was nice to know the legend and spirit of Anzac Day lives on.

 

[Markthirtytwo]

In the right context.

Recently it's become something of a sexy to-do, to say you have been, rather than the solemn pilgrimage to visit the site where one lost an ancestor or fellow digger.

As I've said a couple of times now, the place is being degraded more and more each year, both by the attendees and the Turkish government - where do we begin to draw the line to actually preserve the place?

After all, it is a sacred site where the flower of Australia's youth fought and died for their country - it isn't a theme park, which unfortunately a lot tend to treat it as when they trample through and leave their garbage behind.

There has to be a balance or there'll be nothing left.
[/I]

I agree with you entirely on this issue, I would prefer to pay my homage and deepest respects privately not during Anzac Day 'festivities'.

France, Holland and Belgium are too now becoming tourist attractions, and don't get me started on the Kakoda trail sorties.

 

[Markthirtytwo]

Yep definately mate. Shows the amount of respect the Turks had for the Anzacs.

They weren't the only ones.