Our clearance problems:

[year of the cat]

As has been evident on numerous occasions this year one of our biggest fundamental problems is our inability to win clearances particularly in the centre square but also around the ground. Today we were murdered in the middle. Adelaide are obviously elite in this area but we are being beaten consistently by teams that are not even finals material.

It is time for change. We have overated our on-ball brigade. The only on-ballers that I would think are definitely worthy of keeping are Joel Corey, Paul Chapman, Gary Ablett, Kane Tenace (because he is young and provides leg speed) and probably Jimmy Bartel.

Cameron Ling and James Kelly in particular have been terribly disappointing this year. Ling is still giving 100% but he is slow and teams have worked him out. His decision making has been poor this year and he appears to be continually second-guessing himself. Kelly on the other hand plays like a millionaire. He has talent to burn and when he applies himself is very valuable. In last years semi-final loss to the Swans he was terrific in and under. I don't know what has changed. His lack of intensity is poor.

Both Ling and Kelly also lack genuine leg speed. You can't be deficient in both (i.e. slow and not winning the ball)

I think that we either need to trade for better players in this area (difficult) or use this draft (and probably the next) to get young kids who exhibit the ability to win it in close.

All along we have had this obcession in gaining key forwards which obviously is an area of concern. However the Bulldogs (who incidently won over in Perth today despite having key players missing) are not blessed with tall marking forwards either but have a nice mix of running on-ballers (i.e. Cooney, Griffen, McMahon, Ray, Eagleton, Giansiracusa) as well as clearance specialists (West and Cross).

We need to make changes.

 

[catters05]

Kelly has never been the same since his leg injury IMO.

Ling looks a little slow in the midfield, what about pushing him up forward?

I like Monica's speed, but our forward line needs to be ready for these fast entry's not just stand there like bloody idiots.

 

[chapmanmagic35]

Kelly has never been the same since his leg injury IMO.

Ling looks a little slow in the midfield, what about pushing him up forward?

I like Monica's speed, but our forward line needs to be ready for these fast entry's not just stand there like bloody idiots.

It would help however if Wojcinski was able to dispose of the ball to advantage.

 

[fugsy]

It would help however if Wojcinski was able to dispose of the ball to advantage.

I actually thought his disposal wasn't too bad today.

 

[Cats!!]

I don't have any excuses for Ling although i think Kelly may have a back injury that he may be carrying. While i was watching the Adelaide game Dermy bought it up. His back is all taped up. And Back injuries restrict alot of movement. Although if it is restricting him this much he shouldn't be playing. But this also shouldnt restrict his courage for diving for the ball and getting clearances.

 

[Turbocat]

We structured ourselves to be another Brisbane yet we dont play in the middle like them .They have ruckmen who get their hands to the ball , puch it clear and let their guys run on to it.Can anyone remember K or O even trying this when we are getting flogged. We are predictable and what you can predict you can counter

 

[thejester]

Did Ling get a job today, or was he free-running?

 

[chapmanmagic35]

Did Ling get a job today, or was he free-running?

Simon Goodwin.

 

[thejester]

Simon Goodwin.

And presumably Goodwin turned him inside out?

 

[Belly]

Goodwin, 25 possies, but prob wasn't one of adelaide's best.

Even if Goodwin didn't get a kick, Ling was still terrible, he had 23 touches, maybe 1 was efective. He was just inexcusable today.

 

[darren forssman]

It would help however if Wojcinski was able to dispose of the ball to advantage.

i know we disagree about woja but he really was one of the few positives in the game against adelaide. sure he clanged a few kicks but his run and take em on attitude is what our back half needs.

he even gifted kent his only goal with a great pass on the run.

 

[thehoff]

It would help however if Wojcinski was able to dispose of the ball to advantage.

I thought Monica's game was fantastic today and surely even you can not be critical of his kicking. He was one of the only players willing to carry the ball and take risks to create oppurtunity.

You should really start to focus your attacks on players that deserve it rather than targeting a positive player that attempts to create, i.e. Spencer, Playfair, Kent, Gardiner, Ling, Kelly, Etc.

In response to the rest of the topic, i think you are 100% correct. We have been obsessed with obtaining a key position forward and have ignored our false sense of security in the midfield.

Kelly & S.Johnson would be traded at the years end if i had anything to do with it, however trading this year is not going to get you too far because of the super talent on offer.

Delist: Spencer, Koula, Gardiner, Kinglsey, Longergan and posibly McCarthy.

Trade: Kelly, S.Johnson.

Elevate Will Slade and Batchelor or delist them and start with young speedy midfielders.

 

[Sir Gusset]

I thought Wojcinski was actually one of the better players for us. He did kick a couple of shockers but all in all most of his kicks were pretty decent after breaking the lines and taking on players as aposed to handballing to contests (Ling yet again).

Scarlett kicked a shocker out of defence and Mooney's clanger would have to go down as the worst kick this season. Don't punish Wojcinski, as has been mentioned in this thread and countless others there are plenty worse out there yesterday.

I think a massive part of the blame for yesterday also has to come down on the shoulders of good-old pea brain. Why McCloud was aloud to roam free in the first half when the game was there to be won is beyond me.

 

[thejester]

Goodwin, 25 possies, but prob wasn't one of adelaide's best.

Even if Goodwin didn't get a kick, Ling was still terrible, he had 23 touches, maybe 1 was efective. He was just inexcusable today.

And the Hun named him in our best - and here was me thinking my opinion of it couldn't sink any lower.

 

[chapmanmagic35]

i know we disagree about woja but he really was one of the few positives in the game against adelaide. sure he clanged a few kicks but his run and take em on attitude is what our back half needs.

he even gifted kent his only goal with a great pass on the run.

Agreed - best game thus far post-knee...

 

[carn_the_cattas]

I just noticed Craig Bird led the Under 18 Carnival for clearances, maybe Geelong should have look at him.

 

[year of the cat]

Getting back to my original topic, do you agree that Kelly and Ling may be looked at being traded at years end? I reckon that we really need to address this urgently.

My initial thoughts are to trade Kelly for a late first or early second round pick (I think this is realistic). I don't know what sort of currency Ling would have in the market now - maybe late 2nd round pick?

Therefore we will have one (or maybe two) first round picks and two second round picks to take to the draft. I would think that one should be used for a KP player, the other two on midfield players. Both should have good leg speed and be able to win the ball in contested situations. Hopefully they exist!! Names that may be considered include Jetta, Collard, Moss, Schmidt, Selwood, Houli, Hislop and the three "V"s from Vic Metro.

 

[Partridge]

Getting back to my original topic, do you agree that Kelly and Ling may be looked at being traded at years end? I reckon that we really need to address this urgently.

My initial thoughts are to trade Kelly for a late first or early second round pick (I think this is realistic). I don't know what sort of currency Ling would have in the market now - maybe late 2nd round pick?

Ling apparently will be our next captain. He has been rubbish this year from start to finish but most fans can't or won't admit it. See my ongoing arguments with other Geelong fans on this subject. Kelly is nothing but a lazy showpony.

The fact is though Mark Thompson is unable to make tough decisions, and he is far too attached to the senior players. What you are suggesting I don't have a problem with, but it is extremely unlikely to happen.

 

[chapmanmagic35]

Ling apparently will be our next captain. He has been rubbish this year from start to finish but most fans can't or won't admit it. See my ongoing arguments with other Geelong fans on this subject. Kelly is nothing but a lazy showpony.

The fact is though Mark Thompson is unable to make tough decisions, and he is far too attached to the senior players. What you are suggesting I don't have a problem with, but it is extremely unlikely to happen.

There have been worse than Ling and he has been good in some games. Whilst he hasn't had a great year, he hasn't been shocking.

 

[thejester]

I don't really understand the logic behind trading a player with talent to burn but who is apparently a lazy showpony. Yeah, other clubs will be queing to get him. Ling and Kelly will stay, and get better.

 

[Partridge]

I don't really understand the logic behind trading a player with talent to burn but who is apparently a lazy showpony. Yeah, other clubs will be queing to get him. Ling and Kelly will stay, and get better.

So you believe that if a player is super talented, but not performing at all, the correct solution is to reward him with more senior games while promising kids like Prismall remain anchored in the reserves? This results in the following:

1. James Kelly knows his spot is safe, therefore he doesn't need to raise his level of performance.
2. Prismall and other reserve players know there are sacred cows in the seniors who won't be dropped. This diminishes their faith in the coaching staff.
3. Thompson is exposed as an incredibly soft coach for refusing to make hard decisions under pressure - like right now.

There's a word for expecting a different result after doing the same thing. It's called insanity.

 

[thejester]

So you believe that if a player is super talented, but not performing at all, the correct solution is to reward him with more senior games while promising kids like Prismall remain anchored in the reserves?

Where did I mention that he shouldn't be dropped? Oh, I didn't, I said clubs aren't going to want to pick up a player who (apparently) won't apply himself.

This results in the following:

1. James Kelly knows his spot is safe, therefore he doesn't need to raise his level of performance.
2. Prismall and other reserve players know there are sacred cows in the seniors who won't be dropped. This diminishes their faith in the coaching staff.
3. Thompson is exposed as an incredibly soft coach for refusing to make hard decisions under pressure - like right now.

What the hell are you talking about? The side for next week hasn't been named and after the Bombers or Freo game Thompson had no reason to drop him. More to the point, Kelly has been warned that his spot isn't safe and the dropping of KK, SJ and Playfair clearly demonstrates that there are no sacred cows at Geelong.

EDIT: To clarify, I wouldn't object to Kelly having a run in the 2s but think Thompson will give him one more week - and frankly, I can understand that totally. If Kelly has another shocker against Carlton (which would be almost impossible, touch wood) or Port then I would agree totally that Bomber is being soft on him and he needs to be dropped. But for now, scapegoating Kelly for our total demolition by a far superior side (and let's remember that this is a team that nailed the Bulldogs by a similar margin at the same venue) is just bloody stupid and is a fantastic way to demolish player confidence even more.

 

[Partridge]

But for now, scapegoating Kelly for our total demolition by a far superior side (and let's remember that this is a team that nailed the Bulldogs by a similar margin at the same venue) is just bloody stupid and is a fantastic way to demolish player confidence even more.

So you're quite happy for every player to retain their spots are you? Every player gets a pass mark?

 

[thejester]

So you're quite happy for every player to retain their spots are you? Every player gets a pass mark?

That's not what I said and unless you failed every English unit past Grade 6 you'd know it. Dropping one player on the basis of his performance in a game in which by all accounts the team as a whole played atrociously is stupid. If Kelly plays badly against Carlton or Port, then by all means drop him to the twos - but at this stage I'd prefer to see one of the less experienced players like Tenace leave to give Prismall a chance.

EDIT: And the obvious change of sending Kingsley and possibly even Nath back to the 2s and giving McCarthy a run.

 

[Partridge]

That's not what I said and unless you failed every English unit past Grade 6 you'd know it. Dropping one player on the basis of his performance in a game in which by all accounts the team as a whole played atrociously is stupid. If Kelly plays badly against Carlton or Port, then by all means drop him to the twos - but at this stage I'd prefer to see one of the less experienced players like Tenace leave to give Prismall a chance.

Thanks for the patronising. If it was Kelly's first bad game for the year I would agree wholeheartily. But it wasn't. He has been below par all season, with an occasional good display thrown in (St.Kilda for example). But the problem is certain players never get dropped (Kelly, Ling) and others are always in and out (Tenace, Byrnes, Callan). None of these guys are indispensible, yet only certain players get demoted. Why does Kelly's poor form warrant retention but Tenace's doesn't?

And you're right - dropping one player after a 92 point loss is stupid. I'd drop a lot more than 1.