Outside Mids

[Mario Speedwagon]

who?

Jordan McMahon!

 

[Madison]

All players should be quick and skillful and play a running role.

You are a muppet.

Do you have a concept of outside and inside players?

He just spelled it out for you. Not all players can be all things.

Outside - Boomer, Cousins

Inside - Jobe Watson

Jobe Watson is a fantastic player. But he isn't quick, and he isn't skillful by foot.

Cousins is Cousins, close to the definition of an outside player (Boomer is actually the definition). Not soft, but not in and under.

 

[docko911]

If rance didn't seem shit scared to kick the ball id say he could be a gun midfielder inside or outside. His kicking isn't that bad he just has no confidence but he is a pretty hard player just what we like. Also morton on the wing is vital as he has one of the biggest kicks in the team and can drive in I50's all day.

 

[santa claws]

i hope pick 6 is trained on a well rounded player.
to me if a player of quality is there at 6 and hes both inside and outside you take him why take the limited outside player.

one other thing i would be looking at with our picks this yr is the size factor. we have few quality mediums in fact we seem to get caught out each week by having either talls and smalls with little balance in the middle. imo we are forced to play smalls because to many of the mediums are either unskilled or not ready.

the medium sized players we have are

collins - still lacking size a mid/for.
connors - a poor decision maker and regular butcher of the ball. to me a mid.
contin - inside mid still rookie.
cotchin - a grader hopefully. mid/ come forward.
dea - a promising player and underrated. a size and type we have few of. defender.
deledio - a grader. def/mid.
hislop - slow poor skills delist.
jackson - a fvorite of many imo ordinary player trade.
martin - very promising potential a grader.
mcmahon - gone.
morton - lots to prove mid/for
newman - solid player would send him to the midfield. def/mid
o rielly - still not sure deserves another season. def/perhaps wing.
polo - gone or should be.
taylor - have doubts about him for/?
thomson - injury riddled and to date ordinary probably gone. mid
tuck - love him or hate him type imo ordinary in to many areas. mid.

16 mediums on the list number wise 4 or 5 shy of what we need. add the fact 6 0r 7 of them would not be missed if gone in fact one would think at least 4 are gone.
another 4 are either 1st yr or rookies and there are only two high quality. about 8 have footskill/ decision making issues or both.

imo we are in need in all positions with our early picks best available must be the way we go.

 

[Goldust]

FOR mine, Deledio must remain across half back.
If we are going to be an elite team, we need class players on every line, including half back, and this best suits our structure at the moment.
The bulk of the midfield work is done by Cotchin, Martin, with Tuck and Jackson in run-with roles, and Foley to return.
That's not to say we can't pinch-hit with Deledio at times, but half back is where he is most valuable right now.

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

i hope pick 6 is trained on a well rounded player.
to me if a player of quality is there at 6 and hes both inside and outside you take him why take the limited outside player.

one other thing i would be looking at with our picks this yr is the size factor. we have few quality mediums in fact we seem to get caught out each week by having either talls and smalls with little balance in the middle. imo we are forced to play smalls because to many of the mediums are either unskilled or not ready.

the medium sized players we have are

collins - still lacking size a mid/forcan't see him ever bulking up that much, but I like him... a proper footballer...and courageous to boot...
connors - a poor decision maker and regular butcher of the ball. to me a mid. agree he's a mid, the rest of your assesment is bollocks...sorely needed class...you'll see...
contin - inside mid still rookie.can't comment
cotchin - a grader hopefully. mid/ come forward no "hopefully" about it will be elite if not already and as pure a mid as there is, can't afford the luxury atm of putting him up forward like Geelong can with Ablett
dea - a promising player and underrated. a size and type we have few of. defender. looked one of the least impressive of this year's kids to me..too early to call either way
deledio - a grader. def/mid. should be elite , another pure mid in my book
hislop - slow poor skills delist. yeah probably
jackson - a fvorite of many imo ordinary player trade. YES!!!
martin - very promising potential a grader. Another future elite
mcmahon - gone. no shit
morton - lots to prove mid/for Still a forward for mine..rotating through the midfield..so yeah sort of
newman - solid player would send him to the midfield. def/mid...always thought he was midfielder
o rielly - still not sure deserves another season. def/perhaps wing. so you expected him to have it all down pat after one year of playing the sport?A virtually free player ...handy with the current diluted talent pool ...
polo - gone or should be. Agreed
taylor - have doubts about him for/? Forward...and what doubts apart from his attitude?..only 18... looks all silk to me...
thomson - injury riddled and to date ordinary probably gone. mid yeah probably
tuck - love him or hate him type imo ordinary in to many areas. mid. Yep

.

....

 

[nut]

You are a muppet.

Do you have a concept of outside and inside players?

He just spelled it out for you. Not all players can be all things.

Outside - Boomer, Cousins

Inside - Jobe Watson

Jobe Watson is a fantastic player. But he isn't quick, and he isn't skillful by foot.

Cousins is Cousins, close to the definition of an outside player (Boomer is actually the definition). Not soft, but not in and under.

Cousins outside player??????? really???? and who is the muppet? Boomer gets his fair share of clearances and is under packs most weekends.

The concept of inside and outside players is dying a slow death. There is basically no such thing anymore... you need to be able to do both.

The big difference is speed.... fast or slow... you basically admitted it... the fact is Jobe watson is as much and outside player as he is inside why??? because he can kick and use the ball better than most players at Essendon... thats why they feed it to him...outside the packs. It just happens that he is slow.

You seem to think outside= fast Inside = slow????


The fact is we need more players that can play both.... get their own ball and use it... and also be able to finish. Wether or not they are super fast doesn't matter under our game plan.


Personally I would be looking for players that are fast from hand to foot and can hit a target under presssure.....

If you have noticed our run and carry is almost non-existent.... why??? because DH knows it's quicker to move the ball by foot.

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

If all that was true nutsack, then why would Hardwick even bother to make a point of specifically nominating getting another outside mid as one of our most important list needs...why didn't he just simply say midfielder in general, without any prefix?

 

[nut]

If all that was true nutsack, then why would Hardwick even bother to make a point of specifically nominating getting another outside mid as one of our most important list needs...why didn't he just simply say midfielder in general, without any prefix?

Ok then we have a player Called Jordon Macmahon ... who is as pure an outside player there is who can run and kick.... and he doesn't get a game because he isn't rounded enough...

The only mid we have at the moment who is not a damaging outside player is Tuck. The rest can play both roles if required. Cotch, Lids, Martin, Foley, can all hang out and get the loose ball... and then use it well.

We dont want to get another Fiora, Mcmahon type player..... as mentioned by another poster Geelong have no players that play just "outside". I Think DH means we need to beable to replace Tuck who can't play both.

 

[tiggywigs]

Ok then we have a player Called Jordon Macmahon ... who is as pure an outside player there is who can run and kick.... and he doesn't get a game because he isn't rounded enough...

The only mid we have at the moment who is not a damaging outside player is Tuck. The rest can play both roles if required. Cotch, Lids, Martin, Foley, can all hang out and get the loose ball... and then use it well.

We dont want to get another Fiora, Mcmahon type player..... as mentioned by another poster Geelong have no players that play just "outside". I Think DH means we need to beable to replace Tuck who can't play both.

He doesn't get a game because he is gutless, not because he is an outside mid. Good try, but your theory doesn't stack up. There will always be a role distinction between inside players who extract the ball as opposed to outside players whose job is use it to maximum effect.

 

[TerryTait]

GC are announcing their signings from clubs at 10 55 today could be interesting to see if rischa is in there.

 

[Mr Magic]

Thats news good one Terry

On a similar topic does anyone know where GC strength is with their 17 year olds.

If they go for Swallow , Bennell, and Day, in the first three , woulfd they be chasing mids at 5, 7, 9, 11 or later.

I am not sure but if anyone could figure out the way they may go it would be of benefit since WC is 4 then Vic clubs and GC till Adelaides pick 14.

I am assuming they must have plenty of mids from 17 year olds plus the first two but I might be wrong.

Anyone have any idea ???

 

[TigerTime88]

I have to agree to some extent.

You have genuine mids who have skill and pace like Martin, Deledio, Cotchin. Or in this draft Brodie Smith/Atley. Both of these guys are inside and outside players. They are regarded more as inside but they would both have no problem playing on a wing. I would be keen to get a well rounded player more than a pure outside mid. I think inside mids are just better under pressure and are generally harder at it.

 

[Madison]

Cousins outside player??????? really???? and who is the muppet? Boomer gets his fair share of clearances and is under packs most weekends.

The concept of inside and outside players is dying a slow death. There is basically no such thing anymore... you need to be able to do both.

The big difference is speed.... fast or slow... you basically admitted it... the fact is Jobe watson is as much and outside player as he is inside why??? because he can kick and use the ball better than most players at Essendon... thats why they feed it to him...outside the packs. It just happens that he is slow.

You seem to think outside= fast Inside = slow????


The fact is we need more players that can play both.... get their own ball and use it... and also be able to finish. Wether or not they are super fast doesn't matter under our game plan.


Personally I would be looking for players that are fast from hand to foot and can hit a target under presssure.....

If you have noticed our run and carry is almost non-existent.... why??? because DH knows it's quicker to move the ball by foot.

Think handball receives.

Yeah they can get clearances, but they aren't usually the one getting 1st possession. And I never said they can't do the in and under stuff, but their thing is more running to receive, rather than getting all he contested footy.

Daniel Cross - Inside
Griffen - Outside

That being said, Griffen can win his own footy, and Cross can link up. But Griffen is much more of a damaging player when he is running and linking, and Cross is much more damaging at a stoppage feeding it out to Griffen.

 

[Barnzy]

I'd rather an inside/outside midfielder over purely a player who's limited to the outside. Those are the players that are easily tagged out of a match when the going gets tough because no one is feeding the ball to them. They're the ones labelled down hill skiers.

Cotchin and Martin fit that inside/outside bill but you can never have enough. Most of the best midfielders of the past decade have been inside/outside players. Whether you can find that player is another thing but we shouldn't just specifically looking for only outside players that can't win their own ball.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

I'd rather an inside/outside midfielder over purely a player who's limited to the outside. Those are the players that are easily tagged out of a match when the going gets tough because no one is feeding the ball to them. They're the ones labelled down hill skiers.

Cotchin and Martin fit that inside/outside bill but you can never have enough. Most of the best midfielders of the past decade have been inside/outside players. Whether you can find that player is another thing but we shouldn't just specifically looking for only outside players that can't win their own ball.

Aye

 

[Glitch]

I think he's too valuable where he is at the moment to move into the middle. I love him on the half back line.

Absolutley, absolutley absolutley.

I think most pretty much agree on the following (right?)
We all know getting the ball out of the middle these days, is still very important, but equally important now is to get the ball from half back though the middle quickly and efficiently.

Deledio doesn't have the right body to be an elite midfielder. His centre of gravity is not low enough to the ground basically and isn't strong enough through the hips to break tackles (thus tags). He is a jet though who excels in run, carry and beat the lines with long precise kicking. In that position he is my favorite in the league. In fact I think he is underrated in that position by most.

A beast of a midfielder by comparison is Dustin Martin, low to the ground, strong through the hips and virtually untacklable.

So lets for once let ducks be ducks and drakes be drakes. Otherwise you just have lame ducks

As for outside mids, apart from Deledio, Edwards and Connors; the only other outside runners i can see with even some abilty to break the lines are :-
O'Riely, Tambling and Nason (Webberly, Collins etc just don't fit the outside mid role for mine)

But, even though it's an important position, I don't want an outside mid who is anything less than a chance to be elite. Those honest trier types are called Jordie McMahon. I don't have anything against him personally, just that he is an average honest trier of an outside mid - (turn the occasional ball over at the wrong time, average decision making, good*ish* skills) just hurt far more than they help.

So my point is, yes we are very short of quality elite outside mids, but with our first few picks, unless we can draft someone who is potentially elite (big line breaker with crazily precise skills) - forget it and concentrate on other areas, e.g. a Tall Key Defender another big foil up forward.

If Gaff is that; great - i'd go for him in spades.

What do you all think?

 

[ScallyWag1]

Absolutley, absolutley absolutley.

I think most pretty much agree on the following (right?)
We all know getting the ball out of the middle these days, is still very important, but equally important now is to get the ball from half back though the middle quickly and efficiently.

Deledio doesn't have the right body to be an elite midfielder. His centre of gravity is not low enough to the ground basically and isn't strong enough through the hips to break tackles (thus tags). He is a jet though who excels in run, carry and beat the lines with long precise kicking. In that position he is my favorite in the league. In fact I think he is underrated in that position by most.

A beast of a midfielder by comparison is Dustin Martin, low to the ground, strong through the hips and virtually untacklable.

So lets for once let ducks be ducks and drakes be drakes. Otherwise you just have lame ducks

As for outside mids, apart from Deledio, Edwards and Connors; the only other outside runners i can see with even some abilty to break the lines are :-
O'Riely, Tambling and Nason (Webberly, Collins etc just don't fit the outside mid role for mine)

But, even though it's an important position, I don't want an outside mid who is anything less than a chance to be elite. Those honest trier types are called Jordie McMahon. I don't have anything against him personally, just that he is an average honest trier of an outside mid - (turn the occasional ball over at the wrong time, average decision making, good*ish* skills) just hurt far more than they help.

So my point is, yes we are very short of quality elite outside mids, but with our first few picks, unless we can draft someone who is potentially elite (big line breaker with crazily precise skills) - forget it and concentrate on other areas, e.g. a Tall Key Defender another big foil up forward.

If Gaff is that; great - i'd go for him in spades.

What do you all think?

agree with this. it seems to be a lot easier to get a good midfielder with a late pick than it does to pick up a good KP player. so unless that midfielder is a very likely type, i'd rather we sure up the key positions.

the big guys don't get any smaller as the game wears on.

 

[Glitch]

I'd rather an inside/outside midfielder over purely a player who's limited to the outside. Those are the players that are easily tagged out of a match when the going gets tough because no one is feeding the ball to them. They're the ones labelled down hill skiers.

Cotchin and Martin fit that inside/outside bill but you can never have enough. Most of the best midfielders of the past decade have been inside/outside players. Whether you can find that player is another thing but we shouldn't just specifically looking for only outside players that can't win their own ball.

Ok - how about we do it this way?

If one of the following players was available this year for our pick, who would you choose (based on team needs - not just fav player)

Dustin Martin (grunty inside)
Trent Cotchin (inside/outside)
Deledio (line breaking outside)
Hill from Freo (outside class)

All of those players are elite or have a chance to be - and have elite kicking skills.

After a lot of thought I would go with Cotchin, though initially I was leaning towards Martin or Hill. The reason being he is the most balanced in/out versatile player of the four. If we drafted a skinny player like Hill I would be VERY nervous!

Thoughts?

 

[Barnzy]

Ok - how about we do it this way?

If one of the following players was available this year for our pick, who would you choose (based on team needs - not just fav player)

Dustin Martin (grunty inside)
Trent Cotchin (inside/outside)
Deledio (line breaking outside)
Hill from Freo (outside class)

All of those players are elite or have a chance to be - and have elite kicking skills.

After a lot of thought I would go with Cotchin, though initially I was leaning towards Martin or Hill. The reason being he is the most balanced in/out versatile player of the four. If we drafted a skinny player like Hill I would be VERY nervous!

Thoughts?

I think Hill will be a star. Super quick, great skills, good football brain. He will need to learn how to win his own ball when being tagged though. That might come with experience when he builds up his body more as he's pretty smart in close. As you saw when Rawlings smashed him the other week. Or else teams will be able to sit on him and know he won't be able to have much impact, especially if his team is getting smashed in center in the clearances and his team is struggling thus his team won't be able to feed it out to him for him to do the damage. Some of his possesion counts this year include 13, 7, 13, 16, 13, 12, 15, 7, 7, etc and mostly in losses.

He even might be able to get away with it given his superstar qualities but to become a more well rounded player he will need to be able to do both to a certain extent.

Make no mistake you need those more outside running types but the versatile inside/outside types who can play both roles are more valuable and as I said, history shows the best midfielders of the last decade have mostly been inside/outside types. Even look at some of them of the better midfielders in the AFL today. While they might be stronger in one area they can do both. Judd, Ablett, Swan, Montagna, Hayes, Selwood, etc.

Out of that lot I'd probably go Cotchin/Martin but it's very hard.

 

[santa claws]

Ok - how about we do it this way?

If one of the following players was available this year for our pick, who would you choose (based on team needs - not just fav player)

Dustin Martin (grunty inside)
Trent Cotchin (inside/outside)
Deledio (line breaking outside)
Hill from Freo (outside class)

All of those players are elite or have a chance to be - and have elite kicking skills.

After a lot of thought I would go with Cotchin, though initially I was leaning towards Martin or Hill. The reason being he is the most balanced in/out versatile player of the four. If we drafted a skinny player like Hill I would be VERY nervous!

Thoughts?

dustin for me hes not just grunty inside his ball use kicking of both sides of his body is probably better than all those mentioned.
when i look at martin i think ricciuto on the run and dustin will be just as devestating.

ive said this before in fact grumbled long and hard we did not take him last yr.
this kid was one reason why i was dirty we did not tank.
bastinac to me is probably more outside but sure as hell gets it inside as well. he went at pick 21 and is well rounded. martin and bastinac in one go would have been fantastic.