Overeaction

[davis_756]

What is with everyone abusing players, coaches after every loss? We lost to collingwood sure it hurts but hey we are still 9-8 and should still play finals so we are still on target for 09.

Game Review:

Early on Collingwood tackled hard and we played badly turning over the ball giving them early goals. We controlled most of the 2nd and 3rd terms without scoring because collingwood pushed numbers back and eventually coughed up the odd goal to make all our hard work be for nothing.

We kicked shithouse all game kicking 2.13 in the 1st half which ruled us out of the game when we had as many shots to be 30 down, you don't come back from that.

Collingwood played us as perfectly as anyone ever could, everyone knows our biggest weakness is against pressure and flooding and collingwood did both forcing us to rush our kicks and making it impossible to find a forward 50 target when it was 10v4.

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Sure it is worrying that we continually lose to the same tactics everytime, we need a chf to take pressure off fevola it is as simple as that, no waite killed us but thats how things go.

Look at the positives, this year we have had our biggest win in 8 years, won our most games in a row in 5 years and should comfortably play finals for the 1st time in 8 years providing we beat the roos and demons.

Stop blaming Ratts and the players for losses, you can't win them all especially with a young side like ours. Some weeks our average players will put in great games, others they will play average at best and we will lose thats just the way it goes.

We are weak against pressure sides like essendon, adelaide, etc but everytime we are put under this kind of pressure we learn how to deal with it that little bit better, the coaches can't improve the players in this area it takes experience so just relax and enjoy the ride because we aren't playing for the cup just yet.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Pretty fair assessment, of the game, where we are at and some of the so called supporters, or should I say, barrackers.

 

[The Coach]

OP - nice post but as you say - we learn something every time we compete and this forum would be very light on if people did not post about what they think they saw/learnt each week - they don't have to be right or even reasoned, they are simply opinions

30yo you are often right (IMO) but you have to try wording things so that you don't sound like you are better than everyone else. It has been suggested to me that I have had experience in this area and I can tell you that in my humble opinion no matter how right you may be - you are not better than everyone else. Seriously can't you see how even that last short post of yours could be offensive to many

It is far too late so in case I am not making any sense - I am off to bed

 

[dumb]

Stop blaming Ratts and the players for losses, you can't win them all especially with a young side like ours.

the 'young side' excuse is getting a little old, so to speak. carrazzo and scotland aren't young, but they still sprayed it around.

'controlling the 2nd and 3rd terms' is hardly a positive when it involves a grand total of 2 goals.

really, as much as there's an over-reaction to losses like this (and often there is) there's always some softy preaching the footbal equivalent of unconditional love. what do you think ratts says at the quarter breaks if they play like crap? i bet he tells them they're playing crap. 'well, you did stuff up a few kicks scotto, but on the positive side you do have a handy knack for getting the ball quite a bit'.

 

[40yearBLUE]

the 'young side' excuse is getting a little old, so to speak. carrazzo and scotland aren't young, but they still sprayed it around.

'controlling the 2nd and 3rd terms' is hardly a positive when it involves a grand total of 2 goals.

really, as much as there's an over-reaction to losses like this (and often there is) there's always some softy preaching the footbal equivalent of unconditional love. what do you think ratts says at the quarter breaks if they play like crap? i bet he tells them they're playing crap. 'well, you did stuff up a few kicks scotto, but on the positive side you do have a handy knack for getting the ball quite a bit'.

It has nothing to do with unconditional love and everything to do with you dont know jack about what just happened as evidenced by picking out Scotland or Carrots spraying it around as the reason we lost. It had zip to do with it. When you understand that and can come back and argue about the real cause of the loss perhaps we can have a debate.

 

[40yearBLUE]

OP - nice post but as you say - we learn something every time we compete and this forum would be very light on if people did not post about what they think they saw/learnt each week - they don't have to be right or even reasoned, they are simply opinions

30yo you are often right (IMO) but you have to try wording things so that you don't sound like you are better than everyone else. It has been suggested to me that I have had experience in this area and I can tell you that in my humble opinion no matter how right you may be - you are not better than everyone else. Seriously can't you see how even that last short post of yours could be offensive to many

It is far too late so in case I am not making any sense - I am off to bed

Losing is bad enough but to have to come on here and read this twaddle every time we do, that is what is truly offensive.

If by many you mean the westgate jumpers and bandwagon jumpers and bag the jumpers, then no I dont care if I offend them. I am offended by their lack of understanding of the game and their lack of support for the club. Thats what is offensive.

I dont think I am better than some on here, I KNOW IT. I have courage enough to stick fat when the going gets a bit tougher, faith enough to know we are on track and brains enough to understand what really is happening as opposed to knee jerk sack anyone we can think of mentality prevalent around here. That is what is truly offensive.

 

[jj1978]

I don't think some of us are over-reacting at all!

Last year we saw about a dozen games that were similar to last nights, but we managed to fight back and win 4-5 of them.

This year we've seen similar rubbish against Sydney, Essendon x 2, Adelaide, Fremantle x 2, Collingwood and week upon week of TERRIBLE starts that have cost us the game eg: StKilda, Collingwood, Fremantle.

To me continuosly seeing the same trends in our losses does not instill a motion of confidence that 1. our coaching staff is learning, 2. that our team is learning.

Other than Joseph, I have not seen one of our players do the 1% like block/sheppard for a team-mate, our tackling is pathetic..we wrap them up but the ball always gets passed on to an opponent.

What really shits me is that we have this pack mentallity where 3 of our players go to tackle or chase the ball and in the end too many going at it at once causes a screw up.

Forward footy should rely on tall forwards trying to take a mark and crumbing forwards hovering nearby for the unmarked/punched away ball... why the hell do I never see our crumbers around?

Our midfielders when our forward line is not functioning, still try to pin-point passes to Fev instead of just trying to kick the goal themselves (eg. how Bentley did last night).

Our defence/ruck is the only improvement I've seen in 2008/2009.... the rest is stagnant or going backwards.

 

[incog43]

The very fact this post exists explains why people are critical of our players, MC and coach.

Overeaction, jesus how many weeks of garbage does one have to suffer?

Why do our players consistently struggle to hit targets by foot?
Why are Rattens eyes bulging out of their sockets as soon as things get messy?
Why are there so many posts questioning whether Ratten can coach?
Where is Gibbs when needed?
Why cant Gibbs hurt teams, or hit a target at more than 50% if we exclude the soft sideways kicks.
Which Carlton is going to turn up?
Which Fevola is going to turn up?
Whats the deal with Stevens?(No, I dont think he should be out there, but whats going on?)

Unconditional love is the for the realm of small children champ, thats all they know.

Overeaction? Essendon x2, Freo, Woods, Sydney, Hawthorn(member the skill levels), Freo away, what a start! How many players did they have out btw? Lurch playing injured..

When you are questioning what side will turn up, there is a fundermental flaw at an intrinsic level within the players/coaching staff.

When players cant hit targets, are tooo scared to take kick in, shit themselves when kicking from 40 out, you have major issues.

Of course we can not discuss them, we can tuck them away in the closet, just like Nick Stevens, Hoops, Fev, but that does not really solve anything.

The good, in the 8, Murphy, Kreuzer, Bower, Jamo, AJ, Betts, Judd, Thornton, Hampson(long way to go), these guys have taken the next step this year, well done to them.

The bad, our skills coaching, our players being questionable under pressure, our coach being questionable under pressure, the fact we are in the 8 is probably indicative of where most of the comp is, about to rebuild, self destructed(tigers), Hawthorn being decimated by injuries. Gameplan? Forward options?

These are all frequent questions, almost week to week, read the match day threads, see a common theme?

Exactly how far have we come since last year? Have we actually improved, or in fact is it merely that other teams have dropped off, Swans, Tigers, Hawthorn....

Personally I dont care that you think you are better than the rest of us, your posts do not provide answers, merely, Injuries, player dev, young team, young coach, greater good. Mate they cannot hit targets consistently, explain that, the shape of the ball maybe

 

[blueblooded]

30yb with all due respect i've been a member for 15 years, havent missed many games in that time so i think im pretty qualified to talk. As far as this being an overreaction thats just bullshit!! How can we possibly kick just 4 goals on a perfect night for football?? There is a big problem with our gameplan and our coach has absolutely no idea what hes doing when a team employs a full press zone through the middle of the ground particularly at the MCG, the players are lost and that is a reflection of the coach, lucky Sydney, Richmond and Freo are tanking otherwise we would've lost those ones too!

Our bottom 10 players are not AFL Standard, i think Ratts has made his point with Nick Stevens now, he's not even really all that out of condition tbh, he's not seeing eye to eye with Ratten atm hence Ratts leaving him out of the side, in all fairness to Nick he's had two bad games for the year, should be in infront of Bentley, Johnson etc i agree with dropping him for a game or two but three is just ridiculous.

We've got to stop glazing over shit performances and tell it as it is, our bottom 6-10 players are the worst of any in the league, our coach and his assistants are amateurs employed because the majority are all ex favourite sons, just listen to them all speak and you'll get the picture, our gameplan needs alot of work, our movement inside 50 is amateur when teams defend with any purpose. We have alot of upside but still have a number of huge problems, this is not an overreaction, this is whats going on and until i see our fearless leader Brett Ratten start to change some of these important things and start to coach like a modern day coach should i'll continue to ask the questions.

If we dont play finals by next year he will get the sack, simple as that!

 

[as0l0]

MAJOR overreaction. the effort and running was there, just bad kicking made the difference.

 

[incog43]

MAJOR overreaction. the effort and running was there, just bad kicking made the difference.

See the effort and running bit is essential, but there's this thing called a ball, you kick it or handpass it to another player(who plays for your side) you maintain control and kick goals.

See running and tackling is critical, but its all worthless, if once you get the ball, you kick or handpass possession away, its kinda a fundermental of the game dont you think?

Has this been an issue or year, yup, pretty much, has it been resolved, well no. Do we have a skills coach, well, Im not sure. Are these guys professionals, yup. Is it an unfair expectation to think a player can hit hit a target 20 - 50 meters away 75% of the time? Well, apparently only if they play for carlton.

If you dont have the basic skills, you have to work 20% harder than teams that do have the basic skills.

 

[Blueboys11]

Last night was the most disgraceful performance i can remember from a team wearing the Carlton jumper. To serve up that disgraceful display on some a big stage is putting the jumper to shame and should not be tolerated.

Overreaction?? Hardly!!! They deserve every ounce of criticism that comes there way over the next few days. Skills were horrible, were shown up consistently by the pies on how to run hard into space...

Accept mediocrity, and thats what you get...

I could not see one positive from last nights game... Not one!!!

DISGRACEFUL

 

[dumb]

It has nothing to do with unconditional love and everything to do with you dont know jack about what just happened as evidenced by picking out Scotland or Carrots spraying it around as the reason we lost. It had zip to do with it. When you understand that and can come back and argue about the real cause of the loss perhaps we can have a debate.

scotland and carrots were only an example of age being irrelevent, not the whole reason they lost. of all the young players that played (yarran being the only first year player, if i remember properly), they surely can't account for the skill levels of much of the others. murphy and gibbs have been kicking around in the system for long enough that they can do better than some of the stuff served up last night.

being a young side had very little to do with the ball being chauffeured out of our back half, etc etc etc.

'we've got a young side' is the kind of thing melbourne or west coast says. and even if it were true, it would go a lot deeper than that.

 

[as0l0]

See the effort and running bit is essential, but there's this thing called a ball, you kick it or handpass it to another player(who plays for your side) you maintain control and kick goals.

See running and tackling is critical, but its all worthless, if once you get the ball, you kick or handpass possession away, its kinda a fundermental of the game dont you think?

Has this been an issue or year, yup, pretty much, has it been resolved, well no. Do we have a skills coach, well, Im not sure. Are these guys professionals, yup. Is it an unfair expectation to think a player can hit hit a target 20 - 50 meters away 75% of the time? Well, apparently only if they play for carlton.

If you dont have the basic skills, you have to work 20% harder than teams that do have the basic skills.

yes, but at other times this year (both losses to Essendon) the effort and running wasn't there.

We had a bad night but not because we chose to have a bad night, just because sometimes the footy gods make you have a bad night.

 

[as0l0]

Last night was the most disgraceful performance i can remember from a team wearing the Carlton jumper. To serve up that disgraceful display on some a big stage is putting the jumper to shame and should not be tolerated.

Overreaction?? Hardly!!! They deserve every ounce of criticism that comes there way over the next few days. Skills were horrible, were shown up consistently by the pies on how to run hard into space...

Accept mediocrity, and thats what you get...

I could not see one positive from last nights game... Not one!!!

DISGRACEFUL

your memory can't go back very far since the loss to essendon was 10,001 times worse than this loss.

 

[ESKIE]

Yes it;s a really disappointing loss and we;ve had a couple this year, I have to agree with the OP. We're not a top 4 side, to make the 8 this year would be great, play a final or two, take the next step next year...on our day we can compete or beat anyone. Some carltno supporters have short memories.
Everytime we loose, and yes it is frustrating and I'm as disappointed as everyone else but people want to sack the coach, delist players, our bottom 6 or 10 are crap blah blah...it;s ridiculous, the expectation is out of proportion, we;re not quite a top 4 side, players need to learn to play under real pressure.... Fair weather supporters...

 

[Big Red is back]

Not at all our last month has been absolute crap

- Essendon 8th , smashed us
- Freo nearly beat us with 8 of their best players out
- Richmond had they kicked better for goal or had Fev not saved us we would of lost to them
- Swans , we played one good quarter
- Pies , got smashed

 

[Gouldy]

OP good post and well done on being positive about this terrible situation. But really, this heartache was meant to stop last year. The Essendon and Collingwood losses together have... for the short term ruined my trust in our club.

 

[Big Red is back]

I am really worried about our lack of depth. I am not sure our best players will get any better.

The only players with upside I see are:

K - He could go to the next level but is already veru good

Bower, as per K

Yarran, he couldnt do any worse

Grigg, maybe has some more upside

Most of the other guys have been on the list for enough years to show they are near enough to their peak

 

[incog43]

yes, but at other times this year (both losses to Essendon) the effort and running wasn't there.

We had a bad night but not because we chose to have a bad night, just because sometimes the footy gods make you have a bad night.

There are no footy gods. Mate you choose whether you are going to play or not. You learn how to cope with pressure, or you don't.

You learn how to kick a football, or you cant.

Our kicking has been woeful most of the year, dont try and piss down my leg and tell me its raining.

 

[as0l0]

There are no footy gods. Mate you choose whether you are going to play or not. You learn how to cope with pressure, or you don't.

You learn how to kick a football, or you cant.

Our kicking has been woeful most of the year, dont try and piss down my leg and tell me its raining.

what's your point then. we're one of the worst kicking sides (which i don't agree with) and we're in 7th spot?