Pissweak- No Excuses!!!

[Savatage]

Let's not powder their arses, they were pathetic.

I can count all our good players on one hand.

Frontrunners, selfish, and dumb footballers seems to be what we have in abundance.

Peckett treaded water all night.

Hamill battled hard- but as usual, never gets clean possessions.

Burke is not getting much opportunity up forward. When in midfield got run down a lot- moreso a problem with no backup by team mates.

Thompson looks as slow as mud, chases but cannot land a tackle and his skills were attrocious. He was a liability today.

Jones is trying to be too fancy- at times does it well, at times overdoes it & caused as many turnovers as he did good passages of play.

Heath Black was a very good contributor but is wasted in the backline- we need his skill and run in the GUTS. One positive.

Lenny Hayes needs to take a huge step up this year, his performance tonight was average. Needs to get a move on.

Max has no skill level, and it really limits him as a footballer. Did some nice things, but lets it down with skill.

Gehrig battled manfully as ever.

Everitt didn't do a thing all night- poor leadership. **** game.

Riewoldt was clearly our best player, takes contested marks & has good skill level. Makes mistakes but corrects them by working hard.

Voss- little game time, can't really give a fair critique.

Lawrence- average- did a couple of nice things when on.

Plapp- too small to play on Bradshaw.

Cripps- cut up early- had quiet game.

Davis- nothing.

Stewart Loewe (I'm sorry) is past it- years of playing the hardest position on the field have taken its toll & he's struggling badly. I hope he can find some energy soon, but he looks very tired the past 2 weeks & has struggled pre-season.

Blake- one mistake and whipped off...not entirely fair

Wulf- why he gets so little game time is beyond me, when he's one player that has skill & speed.

Maguire- playing as well as anyone could expect. Spent too much time on the bench when could've been played at full forward whilst we were struggling as a marking option.

Knobel- underdone, did some ok things.

Moyle- got a lot of it, but uncharacteristically make a lot of turnovers. Tries.

Milne- quiet game.

Pisspoor effort.

 

[lioness]

BRILLIANT stuff Sav, great to see a real honest critique of how the boys went, rather than endless excuses!!!!!!!

However, I do have to point out that you were playing against the top team in the competition, and of course if there are any cracks, they'll show. Your comments about Burke in the midfield were spot on, but you do have to take into account that if he had very few teammates backing him up, AND he was up against the best midfield in the comp.......well........

I know you said no excuses, and I dunno if I am really making one. Mixed feelings on this match for me, a lil sad to see the Saints go down so badly, but also a lil happy coz my Lions are finally starting to show the brilliant form of last year. And even Essendon couldn't stop us last year, so do keep that in mind.

I see a LOT of good things in the St Kilda side, but yeah, there are a few things to work on between now and the start of the season. If that can happen then you won't have too much to worry about coz they are an exciting bunch.

 

[Savatage]

You see I do realise how good the Lions are, but the reason that I took this defeat so badly is because they would've played the same **** brand of football against anyone tonight.

The mistakes were self induced for a vast majority, and a lot of bad habits are still around. Pissweak errors or things like not putting the body in, chasing, harrasing, backing up your team mates are things you do in any game, regardless of the quality of the opposition. The fact that they didn't perform those selfless acts is what pissed me off.

Had it been an effort that you can look at and say, well we busted our asses, we played as good as we could & were simply outclassed then it's acceptable- but regardless if it's Wizard Cup or round 22 of the season proper- a **** effort is a **** effort & it shouldn't be tolerated.

I've put up with years of it & if it continues then I'm not simply happy to cop it on the chin.

 

[sainter]

I don't disagree with you that it was a poor effort but I still think you are jumping the gun for a few reasons.

1) It was a pre-season game.

2) We were playing the reigning premiers interstate. They have an absolutely awesome midfield and very few teams can compete with that, particularly at the GABBA. Our captain and two-time brownlow medallist would have been quite handy and given them something to think about. With the exception of Tim Notting, Alastair Lynch and Clark Keating they were at full strength.

3) We are still adapting to a completely new game plan. The huge round 1 win has probably given people a false sense of where we are really at as a team. The forward line was ineffective and that killed us, particularly in the first half where we had just as much of the ball but couldn't find a target or take a mark inside the forward 50.

Most of your player summaries were spot on, albeit a little tough for this time of year.

I disagreed with your summation of Loewe. He was playing on quite possibly the best full back in the competition in pouring rain for most of the game. The conditions were not tailor made for him at all. You are right, he hasn't had a good few weeks but calling Loewe past it is far too premature. Hell, I don't think many 33 year old players would even be playing in the pre-season cup.

You were right with your opinion of Aussie however if he is going to be used as a half back or back pocket, he is there with the intention of giving us run out of the backline. That means taking risks and not all will come off.

I agree with your thoughts on Riewoldt. He was clearly our best player and impressed me with his workrate. Don't underestimate the effect that Koschitzke will have on our team when he returns.

I too would prefer to see Black on the ball. Perhaps he is just being eased back into footy after missing the opening pre-season game or maybe because of the regularity that Brisbane were winning the ball out of the middle in the second half.

I didn't think Lenny was too bad tonight and I agree that Moyle's disposal was uncharacteristically poor.

You are a little off the mark with Spider. Once again he did very well winning the ruck duels. The problem was that our midfield was too concerned with negating the influence of Voss, Black, Lappin, etc. This emphasis on defending meant we weren't looking to attack out of the middle. Still, we still continually won the ball out of the middle and I would think we would have had far more centre clearances. These clearances weren't as effective as they should have been because our midfielders minds were still on their opponents. And once again it also came down to having an ineffectual forward line. Hamill is a flanker and not a key position player. This means we are going to have to be patient and wait for the development of Riewoldt and Koschitzke. Spider didn't get a lot of ball around the game, that might be where you thought he didn't do a thing all night. His goal kicking has been terrible all pre-season, that's something we need improvement on.


Sure it was a poor performance but it's certainly not worth giving up the season or accusing the players of being dumb or selfish at this stage.

 

[Darkhour]

Gotta disagree with you there Sav... It was a piss poor effort but it was a contrast of last weak.. I thought our disposal skills were better at -some- stage than last week but our decision making was atrocious... I can't believe how many set shots for goal (SPIDER!!) that were missed.. I can count at least 5 or 6 goals that should've been certain goals... 12 vs 17 .. and the amount of times we let them get easy goals... arrgghh... how infuriating was it..

I say... put Black into the middle, maxy up forward with Riewoldt (amazing stuff tonight), burke and another small forward ala rotation of Milne, Callaghan, Loewe, Spider, Hamill, Hayes etc..

Can't wait for Kosi to come back... so much poise.. ..

 

[lioness]

WOW!!!!!! I have totally enjoyed reading all your thoughts on the game. I guess for me it's hard to comment here for a few reasons, one, I don't know the Saints players so well, two, they were playing the Lions and three, I am so familiar with the Lions and was kinda concerned at how THEY were gonna go. I actually thought the Lions were gonna get a hiding tonight!!!!!!

Sav, I totally understand your frustration with tonight's effort (TRUST ME) but like sainter said, the new game plan, things like that, are gonna take a while to iron out. This may sound totally patronising from a girl who's team took out the premiership last year, but to be honest I wasn't impressed with the Lions last year. We won 16 in a row AND beat the best team in the league, but a lot of those guys did not play to their full potential. And yeah THAT frustrated me.

I just think it's very wrong to compare the Saints and Lions. One team has its game plan down pat, is chock full of confidence and they KNOW how good they are. The Saints are still finding their feet. But there is SO much potential right there!!!!!!! I KNOW it's frustrating but keep smiling coz it won't be long and they will be giving you REAL reasons to smile. And no matter how long the wait is, it is SO worth it when you get results.

 

[lioness]

Can I say here too, I feel TOTALLY out of my depth trying to talk footy with you guys, I have some work to do.

 

[Molky Saint]

I have to agree with Sav, for all the huffing and puffing over the pre-season about new found comraderie and work on skills (touching the ball 6000 times et al) what was dished up last night was nothing short of a rabble-no game plan and no ability to execute it even if there was one. The senior players and their lack of leadership skills on the field was all too apparent-with Thompson, Burke, Loewe and Everitt fumbling endlessly and contributing nothing. I expected some improvement over what was presumably a hard working pre-season but what we got was just an emulation of last year-its more worrying when you consider that we pretty much had a full compliment of players (at least those who will be playing week in and out over the season). And Harvey coming back will not IMPROVE this side. The only highlight on a miserable night was Riewoldt-he and Kosi look the real deal-but I asky myself WHERE IS THE IMPROVEMENT GOING TO COME FROM? I really can't see us finishing outside the bottom 4. Oh well at least I have my Foxtel- I can watch movies and not worry about the football.

 

[lioness]

The loser mentality around here is just amazing. You're expecting too much too soon and of COURSE you'll be disappointed. Why not get out there and start giving those boys some SUPPORT and ENCOURAGEMENT rather than sit round and sook coz it's not all going your way yet.

 

[StrengthThroughLoyalty]

i will save my abuse until the real stuff starts, and then get stuck right in if they dish up this standard of incompetence again.

lioness, we do get out there and support the boys and our reward is 6 games won out of the last 44, that is a 7% winning strike rate and that statistic alone should tell you why we are so bitter and twisted.

why weren't dal santo and x man playing? they are the future of the club not plapp and davis. perhaps they are getting a full game in the 2s but surely the exposure at senior level against the reigning premiers at the gabba would be invaluable experience. this is the pre season and these young blokes should be playing in the seniors.

nick reiwoldt, what a player he is going to be. he looked a natural forward and hopefully will spend a lot of time on the forward flank this year. one grab marks, mobile and a good kick he is going to be the goods. it was also good to see moyle get his hands on the footy even if his disposal was a little astray.

we played a near full strength premiership team at their home ground. the gulf in class was evident but we shouldn't be too disappointed with this performance. i am still convinced that we will improve this year and it would be nice if it was sooner rather than later but we'll just have to wait.

go saints.

 

[lioness]

Originally posted by StrengthThroughLoyalty

lioness, we do get out there and support the boys and our reward is 6 games won out of the last 44, that is a 7% winning strike rate and that statistic alone should tell you why we are so bitter and twisted.

At Fitzroy our reward was 3 wins from 44 games so trust me I DO understand the bitter and twistedness. lol. But fortunately for me, my boys finally gave me the reward I had waited so long and patiently for, and I KNOW how sweet it is. I didn't mean to disrespect any one of you, coz I totally know the feeling but yeah, you have to stay as positive as possible.

Have sympathy for ME, after all that suffering and then success, I am preparing for a year with the Saints. Heaven help me!!!!!

 

[sainter]

Lioness,

I'll more than likely do my fair share of whinging about our performance at times during the season as well. Just not after 3 pre-season games.

I think we have learnt a lot about our side during the Wizard Cup. There's a lot of work to do but I'm quietly confident that we'll improve quite a bit this season. The experience will be valuable for the youngsters, some of whom will be expected to play a lot of football this season. I'm sure Clarke and Dal Santo weren't played just to give them a full game with Springvale rather than 1 or 2 quarters for us.

I can't wait for the game against Carlton at Colonial in 27 days.

 

[HTB Saints]

The most concerning bit in the last two weeks was the lack of direction going into our forward line. We have struggled to take a mark in the forward 50, and have been very indecisive and indirect once we have possession in there. Handballs to others who are also under pressure, missing targets and some ordinary goal kicking are not acceptable. To kick 7.11 when they kick 17.6 is not good, the conditions not withstanding. It also engenders loss of confidence when hard work is not rewarded.

I wouldn't get too downhearted yet. Look what Adelaide did to Melbourne today. Brisbane we know are a great side, and were not far short of full strength. I'd rather be us than the Dees. It was an interesting decision not to play the young guys (Maguire excepted), but we cannot rely on the likes of Clarke & Dal Santo (& Ball) to improve us much this year.

Riewoldt was excellent, just hope he wasn't auditioning. We'll take Jonathan Brown in return. Aussie continued with his good form, the role down back as the sweeper really suits him. Gehrig got cut up a bit in the backline, which was unusual for him. I have thought that Hayes has shown a bit in the pre season that indicates he may be ready to step up.

 

[Darkhour]

Well guys... I can't say I'm really dissapointed.. so pull your heads up and stand proud... As everyone keeps reminding everyone.. 'It's only a practise match'... although one thats a little more crucial... one thing that Healy or Lyon said last night is that our skill level wont change over night but it will happen and it's true..

more games are required but I would like to see more pressure training etc... to many turnovers with bad decision making..

Can't say I agree with you there with aussie.. sure he got a lot of the ball but did jack with it... gherig looked a little slow, Everitt looked like he's being working on his marking but not his kicking.

Can say I was impressed with Hudghton up forward with riewoldt, black, Hamill and Hayes..

 

[FattyLumpkin]

Was about to put money on Thomas being the first coach to be given the sack - then I saw Melbournes effort!


Fatty

 

[lioness]

Originally posted by sainter

I can't wait for the game against Carlton at Colonial in 27 days.

Why, coz I'll be going? Hehehehehe.

Anyways sainter trust me, I will also get some whinging in this year, I'm very new to the club but trust me, I'll be right in there having a good old bitch if things aren't going well. I just think it's a little too early to start that now, we'll all be burned out by round 3!!!!!!!

Maybe it's coz I'm new but I'm excited about the Saints this year.

 

[sammm]

Originally posted by Savatage
Let's not powder their arses, they were pathetic.

I can count all our good players on one hand.


Stewart Loewe (I'm sorry) is past it- years of playing the hardest position on the field have taken its toll & he's struggling badly. I hope he can find some energy soon, but he looks very tired the past 2 weeks & has struggled pre-season.

yeah he does look tired, i have been commenting to people that i think st kilda is going to struggle this season to find someone who will kick the goals, becuase i don't think Loewe is up to it this year, and should retire with dignity!!!!

if the practise matches are going to be what st kilda produces this year, you will find them very up and down, i think the back line is ok, but the forward line is going to give everybody huge , huge headaches this year.

 

[cjwalkley]

Look at the BRIGHT SIDE....at least Collingwood lost.

Anyway it's not going to be that horrible for the Saints this season. It looks like it's taking players awhile to get used to the new game plan, although there are a couple of players that just do what they have been for the past 7 or so years without much regard to the game plan. You will get Harvey back and Koschitzke, and that will add a bit. I'd lay off Stewie Loewe until the real stuff starts, after all the footy he's played, preseason games don't mean a lot, and he had to contend with 2 of the better tall defenders in the league! Big wrap for Hamill, in an ideal world you'd play he and Everitt up forward, but Sasturday night he ended up in defence. I wouldn't be thinking final 8, however 7-10 wins would be a reasonable year for the saints.

PS Sainter the Lions had Notting, Keating, Lynch, Copeland and Chris Scott out of our best 22.

 

[sainter]

Originally posted by lioness22
Why, coz I'll be going? Hehehehehe.

Ummmmmmmm, errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...............of course that's why I'm excited.

Originally posted by cjwalkley
PS Sainter the Lions had Notting, Keating, Lynch, Copeland and Chris Scott out of our best 22.

I'll give you Chris Scott but we were missing others from our best 22 from last year as well. I just didn't think Craig Callaghan and Matty Capuano are as crucial to our team as Harvey, Koschitzke and Oliver (not best 22 yet but someone with a huge future) are. Similarly you aren't going to win or lose depending on the availablilty of Copeland (who does have a great future I'll admit ).

 

[lioness]

Originally posted by sainter

Ummmmmmmm, errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...............of course that's why I'm excited.

Hahahaha!!!!! A vision in Saints colours, that's our Lioness. Have to make sure we catch up and say hello. And NO excuses!!!!!

And yeah right, the only reason you like Copeland is coz you can see him in Saints colours........HANDS OFF. LOL Unless I come to the Saints permanently, then we can recruit anyone I want. LOL But I might need some convincing.