Society/Culture Please explain?

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Mr Q said:
I think there tends to be a progression. Patriotism leads to nationalism which leads to xenophobia which leads to racism. I don't think it takes very long to reach the end of the scale either once nationalism is reached.

Racism and nationalism might not be the same thing, but they certainly appeal to the same people, and for much the same reasons.

What I found hilarious was the juxtaposition of the cartoon in the West Australian the other day which took the piss out of car flags, and the ad on the bottom of the facing page where the West was selling those self same flags for $2 a set.
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You are drawing a very long bow there Q. I was always told that Patriotism was being thankful and happy for the oppurtunities that Australia had provided me and my family.

I think the examples of xenophobia are blown out of proportion. I'm not saying that it isn't there, but you would like to think that most people are very open minded. Im sure there are millions of examples of people being open and caring to different cultures and races every day, but that is not noteworthy.

Unfortunately it is always a few idiots who reflect poorly on our society. They also seem to be the loudest.

Is anyone actually ashamed to live in Australia, or be called Australian? Or are you ashamed and annoyed at a few ****-heads acting like w***ers and calling themselves patriotic?
 
bit_pattern said:
^^

http://www.theage.com.au/national/f...-cross-becoming-a-swastika-20100120-mlo4.html
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Probably the first time that I have ever agreed with Kevin Reynolds. And I'm a pinko leftie.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa/6707774/eureka-flag-hijacked-by-racists/

There are union calls to stop abuse of the Eureka flag after an Australian of the Year raised fears it could become a swastika-like symbol of racism.
Construction union boss Kevin Reynolds agreed with Australian of the Year Warwick Thornton, from the Northern Territory, who said the symbol was sometimes used as a racist nationalistic emblem.
Mr Reynolds accused groups such as the Australian Nationalist Movement and participants in the 2005 Cronulla race riots of using it to give radical views a cloak of legitimacy.
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I once heard someone call the Germans who stood upto the Nazis as patriots because they not only loved their country but stood up to ensure it remained what they loved. Similar things have been said about the founding fathers of the US, I think that's more the patriotism that we need.

Racism has none of that quality. Evo is right, patriotism and nationalism often form into undeserved pride, I think if someone looks at their place of residence and sees the good things about it's people, instead of clinging to national symbols and abuse anyone who is different, then that's fine. Someone who says I love my country because I live in peace and wealth, I think that's basically harmless. It's when they start saying it's the best country in the world and others are lesser/should love our nation etc. then it becomes a problem. We have too much of that type in our nation at the moment.
 
LOL @ a CFMEU rep lambasting others for using the Eureka flag to represent an illegitimate agenda... Although it's not as if using the flag to promote racism first happened the last 150 years...

Peter Lalor said:
We swear by the Southern Cross to stand truly by each other and fight to defend our rights and liberties.
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Yes, 6 figure salaries and strikes when a flavour of ice cream is out are certainly what he had in mind...

Anyway, back to the topic... People who think Australia is s**t hot and feel the need to let the rest of the World 'we're the best, you suck etc.' know aren't racist, they're just obnoxious. If I walk out of an Eagles game after a win, I'll talk to whoever I'm with about the game without feeling the need to seek out opposition fans to rub it into whereas that's the first thing others look for. Different strokes etc.

People who think Australia is s**t hot and actively seek to keep things just how they are aren't necessarily racist, they're just resistant to change. Sure, there are people who legitimately hate blacks, or jews, or Muslims etc. but they are a small minority. If you surveyed 100 people on the street you'd be lucky to find 1 or 2 who 'hate' say Muslims or believe Muslims should not be allowed to emigrate to Australia. If you asked the same 100 people if they would like Muslims to make up 20% of the Australian population or whether they'd like to live in a suburb which was predominantly Muslim, I'd be very surprised if the 'yes' vote was the majority. It's not Muslim bashing either, you could replace the word Muslim with Sudanese, Chinese, Dutch - whatever, it's human nature to be protective of what you have. So what are these people? Racists? Xenophobes? Are the majority unreasonable for wanting to maintain the status quo?

As much as the ideologists like to pretend otherwise, Australia is a Western country, the official language is English, the majority of the population are of European descent and the #1 religion is Christianity. It has even developed its own culture too. The notion that Australia is just one big melting pot where everyone gets along and throwing any number of migrants from any background in any proportion into the mix won't upset the balance is utter crap, and if society is ever going to progress then racial issues need to be discussed, not ignored.
 
Scotland said:
As much as the ideologists like to pretend otherwise, Australia is a Western country, the official language is English, the majority of the population are of European descent and the #1 religion is Christianity. It has even developed its own culture too. The notion that Australia is just one big melting pot where everyone gets along and throwing any number of migrants from any background in any proportion into the mix won't upset the balance is utter crap, and if society is ever going to progress then racial issues need to be discussed, not ignored.
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I'm not sure where you're going with this, but I guess that you think we should stay as we are.
Canada discussed racial issues and outlawed English as an official language for a while. England eventually reinstated Welsh and many U.S states legislated to ban languages other than English. Switzerland - of all places just - voted to stop building mosques with minarets. France entertained banning burkhas. The motives were probably due to a mixture of nationalism and xenophobia, but all were hysterical.
Racism/ethnicism needs to be discussed, but in a climate of calm and respect.
Like it or not, Australia is an amalgam of different cultures. I love it.
Saved us from English cooking, at least.
 
Yeah scot, where the hell do you live? think if you asked 100 average Australians should we stop Muslim immigration, you'd get alot more than 1 or 2 saying "yes" or something similar like "they might be terrorists so we shouldn't take the risk".
 
From The Drum :thumbsu:

Blue singlet patriotism gets a little off-colour

By ABC's Marieke Hardy

It's an odd word, that - "patriot" - and these days mostly seems to signal only one thing: that whoever is yelling it into your face and slapping a hand proudly into their breastplate is possibly not very fond of coloured people.
When did that happen? When did it become acceptable for these types of citizens to speak on behalf of their fellow countrymen? When did they steal that particular word and hijack it for their own appalling devices? And more importantly, who's dressing them?
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