Society/Culture Please explain?

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Tim H

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Sep 23, 2006
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Being a racist is bad.

Being a patriot is good.

Will somebody explain to me the difference.:confused:
 

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Ther's nothing good about mindless patriotism, it's the refuge of the scoundrel, and there is a fine line between patriotism and jingoism, which has been used since time immemorial to whip up hysteria and support for militry misadventures. I don't think there is anything inherently good about patriotism.
 
bit_pattern said:
Ther's nothing good about mindless patriotism, it's the refuge of the scoundrel, and there is a fine line between patriotism and jingoism, which has been used since time immemorial to whip up hysteria and support for militry misadventures. I don't think there is anything inherently good about patriotism.
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Patriotism is too close to nationalism.
 
Is this rhetorical? Are you trying to tell us you think patriots are racist?

Because dictionaries are very accessible on the internet, and that route wouldn't have been any more trouble than posting this topic.
 
Tim H said:
Being a racist is bad.

Being a patriot is good.

Will somebody explain to me the difference.:confused:
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A racist judges people based on what they look like. A "patriot" judges everything based on where it's from.

Neither is good. The distinction between patriotism and nationalism is pretty small. The reality though is that a lot of wannabe xenophobes are using "patriotism" to cover what is really xenophobia.
 
For the sake of further discussion what is the antonym of patriot?

I don't really agree that patriot in it's non-mangled form is a bad thing. A patriotic spirit when applied at an individual level would equate to pride in one's self, one's beliefs and habits etc. There's an element of selfishness in patriotism, it's about you, but that isn't bad either. Competition is people acting selfishly. Capitalism is people acting selfishly.

Competing nations a bad thing? It works in the more micro sense.

I am just musing here, no need to break a bottle :p
 
His logic is that both are traits you don't choose.

You don't choose your country. You don't choose your skin colour. Yet it seems reasonable for one to selectively help out their fellow countrymen, & unreasonable to selectively help out those of your race.
 

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Mr Q said:
A racist judges people based on what they look like. A "patriot" judges everything based on where it's from.

Neither is good. The distinction between patriotism and nationalism is pretty small. The reality though is that a lot of wannabe xenophobes are using "patriotism" to cover what is really xenophobia.
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I think you've over simplfied racist for the modern era

but for me both words have been warped beyond what they were intended, to be to suit various people around the place.They completly meaningless (especially to the cynical person) becuase they both get used to push people's agendas and not a cause.
 
Mr Q said:
A racist judges people based on what they look like. A "patriot" judges everything based on where it's from.

Neither is good. The distinction between patriotism and nationalism is pretty small. The reality though is that a lot of wannabe xenophobes are using "patriotism" to cover what is really xenophobia.
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Racism can been defined as the belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. The sentence should be broken in two with the first half being defined as racial differentiation, and the latter half as racial discrimination. As much as the PC brigade like to pretend otherwise, there are inherent differences between races.

Patriotism is a sense of devotion to one's country. Nationalism essentially refers to the identification and protection of the identity and/or prosperity of a 'nation'. Xenophobia is a fear of things unknown/different. On face value there is nothing wrong with having pride in one's country and wanting to protect its cultural customs.

All of the above words are misused, misunderstood and have attached stigmas. You will not find someone who opposes high levels of immigration or is critical of the concept of multiculturalism who has not been labelled racist, nationalist, xenophobic, bigoted or a combination of the above, despite their reasoning for their personal viewpoint.

If you walk around saying 'I don't like Americans, I don't want them coming here' you can guarantee within minutes someone will call you a racist. Last I checked the population of the United States didn't consitute a 'race'. Sure, for whatever reason you're being intolerant of a few hundred milion people, but racist? No.

I would suggest that the overwhelming majority of prejudice in the World is based upon cultural and religious differences, but 'culturalist' and 'religiousist' just don't seem as catchy so 'racist' is the word of choice.
 
Scotland said:
Racism can been defined as the belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. The sentence should be broken in two with the first half being defined as racial differentiation, and the latter half as racial discrimination. As much as the PC brigade like to pretend otherwise, there are inherent differences between races.

Patriotism is a sense of devotion to one's country. Nationalism essentially refers to the identification and protection of the identity and/or prosperity of a 'nation'. Xenophobia is a fear of things unknown/different. On face value there is nothing wrong with having pride in one's country and wanting to protect its cultural customs.

All of the above words are misused, misunderstood and have attached stigmas. You will not find someone who opposes high levels of immigration or is critical of the concept of multiculturalism who has not been labelled racist, nationalist, xenophobic, bigoted or a combination of the above, despite their reasoning for their personal viewpoint.

If you walk around saying 'I don't like Americans, I don't want them coming here' you can guarantee within minutes someone will call you a racist. Last I checked the population of the United States didn't consitute a 'race'. Sure, for whatever reason you're being intolerant of a few hundred milion people, but racist? No.

I would suggest that the overwhelming majority of prejudice in the World is based upon cultural and religious differences, but 'culturalist' and 'religiousist' just don't seem as catchy so 'racist' is the word of choice.
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Saying "I don't like blacks" & "I don't like Americans" is the same in sentiment though. Both race & nation have no definitive bearing on culture/personality, both are something a person is born into ... so both phrases are equally bigoted.

There's a lot of tippy toeing around race because of the history of race relations, but the relationship between nations is obviously far more bloody and hate filled.
 
Racism = I/We are better than them.

Patriotism = I/We are better than them.

Why is one acceptable if the other is not.
 
Patriotism does not necessarily have to have anything to do with any other nations/groups of people. I am proud to be Australian (proud of Australia-whichever you ;prefer), and I would argue a Patriot says more of "We are good" instead of "We are better than you".
 
What's the difference between nationalism, patriotism and racism.
It can be a very thin line.
Those goons who drape themselves in the aussie flag on Australia Day shouting Ausie Aussie Aussie oy oy oy, what are they? Patriots or nationalists? Racists me thinks.
I'm a patriot - I love Australia.
But I'm not a racist. I love all cultures and all races; black, white and all shades in between.
Patriots love their country.
Racists love their race.
 
Sportman1987 said:
Saying "I don't like blacks" & "I don't like Americans" is the same in sentiment though. Both race & nation have no definitive bearing on culture/personality, both are something a person is born into ... so both phrases are equally bigoted.
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So being proud of such things in yourself is as futile and bigoted as not liking that in others, no?
 
Dippers Donuts said:
What's the difference between nationalism, patriotism and racism.
It can be a very thin line.
Those goons who drape themselves in the aussie flag on Australia Day shouting Ausie Aussie Aussie oy oy oy, what are they? Patriots or nationalists? Racists me thinks.
I'm a patriot - I love Australia.
But I'm not a racist. I love all cultures and all races; black, white and all shades in between.
Patriots love their country.
Racists love their race.
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why are you posting these statements that are obviously both absurd and ridiculous? was it with the intention of facilitating the notion that sacrificing ones life for another is virtuous and/or aristocratic? well this in fact, compromised by the notions of expertise, has altered my mortality to such a degree, that I now have as much "feeling" and "compassion" as a can of frozen turnip greens. this is now resting on your shoulders. to answer the question already formed in your simple little mind, no. no as in my first priority when making a post is not always the hyperbolic expression of my feelings towards a person of your nature.
 
Dippers Donuts said:
What's the difference between nationalism, patriotism and racism.
It can be a very thin line.
Those goons who drape themselves in the aussie flag on Australia Day shouting Ausie Aussie Aussie oy oy oy, what are they? Patriots or nationalists? Racists me thinks.
I'm a patriot - I love Australia.
But I'm not a racist. I love all cultures and all races; black, white and all shades in between.
Patriots love their country.
Racists love their race.
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Pauline Hanson calls Herself a patriot.
 
bit_pattern said:
So being proud of such things in yourself is as futile and bigoted as not liking that in others, no?
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Yep. Of course you can like your skin colour + nation & what comes with it, I think that's only natural and helps people maintain a healthy self esteem. But to be proud of it infers to me that you've somehow earned it ... which you haven't.

& when I say equally bigoted, I'm only thinking out loud. If someone says "I ****ing hate asians", or "I ****ing hate blacks" I definitely cringe a lot more than when someone says "I ****ing hate Americans". The former seems worse, but I can't see any logical reason why. I guess the difference is race is always apparent, while someone's nationality can be easily hidden or even changed if the person is lucky enough $$$ wise.
 
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