Travel Qantas ground entire fleet.

[CakeEater]

And what was the correct response? Should governments act directly every time a publicly listed company would like to break a union?

Noted that you didnt respond to the comment when I asked who drew up the framework that led to Qantas taking this course of action.

In answer to this question that you raised, no they shouldnt, but they also shouldnt sit on their hands and do nothing after they were initially informed.

As it stands the framework has veered too far to the left (which isnt suprising given the repudiation of Work Choices), but in reality under the framework as it stands ATM, the only play Qantas had was the one that they played.

 

[CakeEater]

And who created the Act which facilitated a determination to be made by an independent umpire to end the action within 48 hours of announcement?

Massive, massive win for Gillard. She didn't have to end the action herself. Proves the system is powerful enough on it's own accord to make the decisions.

This is the best PR job Fair Work Australia has ever had.

And let's not forget the fact that the opposition has no industrial relations policy of it's own. Abbott is just talking tough (AKA talking complete shit) as per usual.

With Respect, the independent umpire has been around since the Harvester Case i.e the 1900's.

The system has and always will be powerful to withstand these kinds of cases, not sure how this can be claimed as a win for Julia, at best it's a 0-0 draw (which isnt exactly the high standard you expect from the Prime Minister and the Industrial Relations system that governs it).

As for the opposition, surely the point of it all is that He doesnt need to have one (however I would like him too). Julia is that unpopular, that Tony could write his own ticket and is probably in fittings right now for the crown.

 

[Brad Goodman]

Was anyone else stranded?

I had just boarded a Qantas A-380 at LAX at 11:30pm Friday night (5:30pm Saturday evening AEDT) when an announcement came over the P.A. that all flights had been grounded so we would need to disembark. I got on the phone to my dad straight away and booked a flight on United for the Saturday night - I kind of needed to be back for work, otherwise I would have been happy to have been stranded for as long as it took.

It was quite surreal experience when the announcement came over and back in the check-in area while we waited to hear what the next step was.

 

[Simple Jack]

Another QF roller went bang this week. Sparks on takeoff out of SYD, but continued to NRT after engine indications stabilised, on arrival was inspected and found to be stuffed. Suspected same problem (which has a known fix) as all the other ones.

But yeah, outsourcing works

 

[Bombers_Forever]

Another QF roller went bang this week. Sparks on takeoff out of SYD, but continued to NRT after engine indications stabilised, on arrival was inspected and found to be stuffed. Suspected same problem (which has a known fix) as all the other ones.

But yeah, outsourcing works

Who says it was caused by outsourcing? So many of these 'incidents' have occured to aircraft that are fully maintained in Australia.

 

[the fly]

Who says it was caused by outsourcing? So many of these 'incidents' have occured to aircraft that are fully maintained in Australia.

That brings up another question. Has the time (and kilometres flown) between services been increased to save money?

 

[Simple Jack]

Who says it was caused by outsourcing? So many of these 'incidents' have occured to aircraft that are fully maintained in Australia.

This has been covered earlier in the thread but I'll go over it again.

The RB211 engines have a KNOWN FAULT in one of the compressor sections of the engines causing them to fail on a regular basis.

There is a modification available to fix this problem but Qantas can't install it on the engines because they closed down their world renowned Sydney heavy maintainence base and they are last in line with the Asian ones they now use.

This problem is 100% DIRECTLY caused by outsourcing.

And before you say 'but, but it's too expensive to do maintainence in Australia' then why are Virgin BUILDING a new hangar in Sydney to do more and more maintainence on shore.

Virgin engineers are currently paid more than the ones at QF.

VIRGIN Australia chief executive John Borghetti has rejected claims the airline's pilots, engineers and ground crew are paid substantially less than those at Qantas Airways.

Mr Borghetti says there was a 5 per cent difference between the salary of a Boeing 737 pilot flying a Virgin Australia aircraft and an identical pilot flying the same aircraft for Qantas.

The difference was similar for ground staff, while aircraft engineers at Virgin were paid more than those at Qantas, Mr Borghetti said.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...eo/story-e6frfku0-1226183816945#ixzz1eNmAp59x

As far as the industrial thing goes, apparently the arbitrators can't approve a "Red tail, QF flight number=Qantas staff" clause, and the pay claim is largely irrelevent so Joyce and co have won the battle.

 

[Underdog]

Where does your info come from Jack?

MAINTENANCE of Qantas' A330 fleet will return to Australian shores, the carrier says.

The Brisbane heavy maintenance facility, which employs more than 500 people, will take over work that was previously done offshore.

...

Qantas says between 80 and 90 per cent of Qantas aircraft heavy maintenance is carried out in Australia, and the work that is carried out offshore is mainly overflow work.

May 11, 2009
http://www.news.com.au/qantas-maintenance-to-return-to-australia/story-0-1225710803323

“Frankly, this myth wouldn’t worry me if it were true because all the world’s other great airlines do their maintenance outside Australia. Aviation is a global high-tech industry, and there are centres of engineering andmaintenance excellence around the world.

“But the fact is that last year we undertook 93% of all our maintenance in Australia, and over 80% of Qantas heavy maintenance. Far from it disappearing offshore, we have an engineering community of more than 5,500 people, including 357 apprentices in training and a further 60 due to commence training this month.”

February 9, 2011
http://www.eglobaltravelmedia.com.a...ing-remains-firmly-onshore-joyce-insists.html

Qantas CEO Alan Joyce told Sky News yesterday most of the airline's heavy maintenance was carried out in Brisbane.

"We're the only airline that does its heavy maintenance here onshore," Mr Joyce said.

October 17, 2011 2:27PM
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...antas-groundings/story-e6freoof-1226168058967

The QANTAS websites states they employ "some 6,000 personnel" in Engineering and Maintenance. That figure is above the one given in Feburary this year.

 

[Simple Jack]

Where does your info come from Jack?

I don't know which part you're referring to so I'll just go with all of them.

1. RB211 has a known fault.

Plain language description

The safety issue is that there is a known fault in this engine type’s high pressure compressor units in which turbine blades can break free and cause severe damage both inside and outside of the engine. In one of a recent series of at least nine such failures in the Rolls-Royce RB211 version used on Qantas Boeing 747-400s one of them ruptured the engine casing on a flight that had just left San Francisco for Sydney last year.

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetal...d-qantas-ground-its-rolls-royce-engined-744s/

Here is the actual AD (Airworthiness directive)
http://casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/airworth/airwd/ADfiles/TURBINE/RB211/2011-0175.pdf

2. "There is a modification available to fix this problem but Qantas can't install it on the engines because they closed down their world renowned Sydney heavy maintainence base and they are last in line with the Asian ones they now use."

Stated as fact by the ALAEA Federal Secretary (who is an engineer) in both the recent senate enquiries (and informally on another forum) where lying would be considered contempt of parliament as far as I understand.

3. "And before you say 'but, but it's too expensive to do maintainence in Australia' then why are Virgin BUILDING a new hangar in Sydney to do more and more maintainence on shore."

The NSW Government has helped secure a major new Virgin Blue aviation maintenance facility for Sydney bringing more than $40 million in investment and over 300 jobs to the State. The facility will be built at Sydney Airport and be used to maintain a range of Virgin Blue aircraft including Airbus A330s, Boeing 777s, Boeing 737s and Embraer Jets.

Virgin Blue Group of Airlines Chief Executive Officer John Borghetti said planning was well underway on the facility with the current hangar design to accommodate up to four narrow-body aircraft, or two narrow-body aircraft and one wide-body aircraft.
“This new strategic asset will provide us with line and base maintenance capability for wide-body and narrow-body aircraft at our largest and busiest airport, supporting our expanding fleet operations,” Mr Borghetti said.
“Having a dedicated maintenance base here in Sydney, complementing those we already have in Brisbane and Melbourne, will create significant benefits to our business in terms of optimising scheduling and network operations and also generating potential revenue opportunities by offering use of the facility to partner airlines.”

http://www.business.nsw.gov.au/news...e-maintenance-facility-creating-over-300-jobs

4. "Virgin engineers are currently paid more than the ones at QF."

I already quoted a source for this one.

5. "As far as the industrial thing goes, apparently the arbitrators can't approve a "Red tail, QF flight number=Qantas staff" clause, and the pay claim is largely irrelevent so Joyce and co have won the battle"

This one is completely anecdotal and I have no solid source to back it up.

I hope I'm wrong and the arbiters do put in a "Red tail, QF flight number-Qantas staff" clause but I have been informed otherwise.

 

[King Elvis]

The facility will be built at Sydney Airport and be used to maintain a range of Virgin Blue aircraft including Airbus A330s, Boeing 777s, Boeing 737s and Embraer Jets.

Don't Qantas already do that, though?

The issue is with the next generation of long haul aircraft; that isn't correct?

 

[Simple Jack]

Don't Qantas already do that, though?

The issue is with the next generation of long haul aircraft; that isn't correct?

Some, but their heavy engine maintainence base at Sydney which was regarded as the best in the world they shut down a few years ago.

With the 80+ years of knowledge at that facility they were achieving record times of 'on wing' service from the engines and from what I understand Rolls Royce would even come to consult with them from time to time, such was the depth of their knowledge.

And no, this problem (which is indicative of further systemic problems) is regarding the Rolls Royce RB211 engines which are installed on the ageing 747-400 fleet.

The RB211 can also be installed on 767s which Qantas has, but I think QFs 767s use GE engines.

 

[BomberFletch31]

The RB211 can also be installed on 767s which Qantas has, but I think QFs 767s use GE engines.

QF's own 767s (VH-OG*) are fitted with GEs, but they also have a small fleet of ex-BA 767s (VH-ZX*) which are fitted with RR RB211s.