Analysis R11 St Kilda v Melbourne

[VDS66]

I read an article today where Bernie Vince said they thought there was about 4 minutes to go as the other quarters had gone for about 30 minutes, obviously the lack of goals made the last quarter shorter. As a result they thought it was too early to flood back and try and defend the lead.

Seems odd that someone wouldn't have told the players how long there was left to go, I think the Melbourne runner was already on the ground when Roos tried to order more players back into defence. Not that any of us are complaining about their stuff up.

Anyway just looking at the last minute of that game again I knew Steven was fantastic but so was Bruce competing in the ruck, not only in the centre bounce where Steven won the clearance but also at the last centre bounce where he laid a tackle to prevent a quick Melbourne clearance, he's certainly a competitive beast.

Serves them bloody right. That runner was on the park directing their defenders who to kick it too.

 

[Plugger35]

hahait says shenton only had 1 clanger.. shows that stat is pointless

oner weird stat we had 99 tackles but dunstan had none only saints player who didn't register a tackle (no surprise for the dees watts also went tackless in a contested game)

last weird stat was we own with iny having 3 players have over 20 touches (tags 29, steven 21, armo 20 compared to the dees who had 11 over 20)

It was the most tackles by any Saints team in history apparently, a pity we didn't get rewarded by the umpires with more HTB free kicks though. Melbourne players were constantly given an eternity to get rid of it but it would just get called play on most of the time.

Gee whiz some supporters swing with a gentle breeze... last week Keys was being lauded for a great job on Roughhead & now he's no good (after Hogan got 2 goals that no full back in the league would have stopped & one lucky pill in the goal square).

After the grand total of 2 full games, Blacres goes back to the sub vest & struggles to get into the game & now he's under pressure to hold his spot (after being nominated the best of his Draft year 2 weeks back).

Some consistency of opinion would be nice!

Never easy for a sub to come on and adjust to the tempo of a hectic game like that and I don't think Acres is the sort of guy that is suited to the sub role where you need to have an immediate impact in a short space of time. He's more the slow burn accumulator type that has an impact over a full game.

Hopefully he gets another opportunity against the Dogs but with players returning like Billings, Fisher and Roberton he might find it hard to keep his spot.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

Lonie is a freak.. I cant believe hes only 19yo and nor can i believe he slipped to the 3rd round.

 

[mysainters]

Bruce is actually excellent in the ruck, two weeks now

 

[dewah07]

Other weird trends, acres has only played 1 game out of Melbourne in his career (against the line @ the gabba this year) which surprisingly was his best game for the club that saw him have 10 touches in the 1st to finish with a career high 20. good thing for him perhaps is the fact 4 of our best 5 are in Melbourne

 

[dewah07]

Bruce is actually excellent in the ruck, two weeks now

i wouldn't risk it myself with him in the ruck personally but they have limited options atm.

 

[Ekomaira]

How clean were Lonies hands, he has some bloody good skills

Give him the Rising Star nom for that moment alone!

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

Gee whiz some supporters swing with a gentle breeze... last week Keys was being lauded for a great job on Roughhead & now he's no good (after Hogan got 2 goals that no full back in the league would have stopped & one lucky pill in the goal square).

After the grand total of 2 full games, Blacres goes back to the sub vest & struggles to get into the game & now he's under pressure to hold his spot (after being nominated the best of his Draft year 2 weeks back).

Some consistency of opinion would be nice!

No one would have been able to stop Hogan's first two goals, not even SOS, Matthew Scarlett or David Dench, arguably the three best full backs in the last 40 years. So Delaney had 2 goals where he was maybe a chance against an absolute gun of a full forward who is impacting games like very few full forwards at the same age before him. Some realistic expectations please!!

But yeah he was crap, awful, needs a rest, wasn't the same player

Really?? I mean really??

I do have to wonder if we are all watching the same game sometimes

 

[Rough_Edges]

- one weird stat we had 99 tackles but dunstan had none only saints player who didn't register a tackle (no surprise for the dees watts also went tackless in a contested game)

- says shenton only had 1 clanger.. shows that stat is pointless

- last weird stat was we own with only having 3 players have over 20 touches were 2 of those 3 got to 20 because of the last minute (tags 29, steven 21, armo 20 compared to the dees who had 11 over 20)

Melbourne played keepings off a lot and had more than 100 touches than us.

They chipped around in the back half so much, especially in the second half.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

No one would have been able to stop Hogan's first two goals, not even SOS, Matthew Scarlett or David Dench, arguably the three best full backs in the last 40 years. So Delaney had 2 goals where he was maybe a chance against an absolute gun of a full forward who is impacting games like very few full forwards at the same age before him. Some realistic expectations please!!

But yeah he was crap, awful, needs a rest, wasn't the same player

Really?? I mean really??

I do have to wonder if we are all watching the same game sometimes

The other goal he kicked was when he flew in across the front of the pack of Gilbert, Delaney and player x of the Dees...freak athleticism and reading of the play. Let's be honest, we aren't talking about some hack struggler up from the VFL. He's gonna be some sort of player imo

 

[pebblesofsand]

Watched the replay and I reckon the biggest positives were "Bomber" Thompsons comments about how surprised he was to see first hand how advanced the Saints were as a team.

Made the comment on several occasions that they were already playing the game that Richo seemed to want to be playing in 2 or 3 years time but they were struggling to maintain it for the full 4 quarters primarily due to immaturity

Likened them to his young Cats team of circa 2003/04.

Role on 2017/8/9

 

[pebblesofsand]

Just on Blake Acres

Gun !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TassieSaint]

No one would have been able to stop Hogan's first two goals, not even SOS, Matthew Scarlett or David Dench, arguably the three best full backs in the last 40 years. So Delaney had 2 goals where he was maybe a chance against an absolute gun of a full forward who is impacting games like very few full forwards at the same age before him. Some realistic expectations please!!

But yeah he was crap, awful, needs a rest, wasn't the same player

Really?? I mean really??

I do have to wonder if we are all watching the same game sometimes

I agree with what your saying, but there's no need to make excuses for him. Yeah he was unlucky but at the end of the day he did get absolutely towelled up to the point he was not just switched off his opponent but subbed. It happens to the best of them, including the 3 you mentioned (not the sub part obviously). I remember Matty Scarlett getting 8 kicked on him by Hale. End of the day he is still a lock for the FB position for the forseeable future.

 

[bird_man]

i wouldn't risk it myself with him in the ruck personally but they have limited options atm.

Who would you play in the ruck then?

 

[The Punter]

Bruce didn't have a hit out against Hawthorn - if he goes OK in the ruck, then it is by the "Grant Thomas" definition. He was wonderful in that last passage of play - I knew he would contest the ruck and take off forward.

Delaney was a bit like Shenton the week before - asked to do something for which he is not suited. As soon as Pederson was subbed off I thought a Delaney subbing was likely. Boyd a better match up for him at this stage, although I do see the benefit of blooding Goddard in this game too.

 

[Up Bush]

He looks a definite star, I'm not talking about hypotheticals, he was what he was but we didn't have a good match up. Gilbert and Dempster struggled.

Dempster was only on Hogan after Delany went off = no goals. He was on Howe for most of the first 2.5 qtrs. = no goals. Took 10 marks 6 of which intercept and you say Dempster stuggled????

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

I agree with what your saying, but there's no need to make excuses for him. Yeah he was unlucky but at the end of the day he did get absolutely towelled up to the point he was not just switched off his opponent but subbed. It happens to the best of them, including the 3 you mentioned (not the sub part obviously). I remember Matty Scarlett getting 8 kicked on him by Hale. End of the day he is still a lock for the FB position for the forseeable future.

That's my point - he's still a lock and yes agreed he was beaten against Hogan.

I guess I am frustrated by some on here who think a player should be dropped after one bad performance. It just doesn't work like that, especially if they have played a swathe of serviceable and decent games. In Delaney's case the guy was top 5 B&F last season. Yes everyone is allowed and should voice their opinions but sometimes I just get frustrated with posters wanting Newnes dropped or in this case Delaney dropped or even Billings dropped. They are easily best 22 and it's about a long game - players don't become a jet after 5 games, it takes years. Whilst most posters understand this there are some who I'm guessing just can't see the big picture.

Also surely the club has a better idea of who should be playing and who shouldn't? We don't know who is sore, who is playing injured and so ion. Last year I called out that Jack was playing injured and hadn't got over the foot injury. I also said that something was wrong with Joey, (I didn't know what it was but you could see that the guy was troubled by something) yet people were frustrated and not happy, (which is their god given right - this is why the forum works as its a place for like minded supporters to discuss and debate anything about the club).

Maybe not everyone can identify whether a player is going to make it or not? Identify whether a player has a better chance of turning into an A grade player, (or even elite). I don't profess to be a guru in this at all but I think after you've watched the game for years and years you have seen players start and struggle and then after 2,3,4,5 or even 8 years finally become the player he and we all hoped they would be, you would have some kind of idea of identifying who might make it and who won't. And that is what makes it all subjective as its all opinion based. However when you see a player like Newnes you know he is going to make it. People thought BJ was struggling before he found his groove. I will never forget that mark and goal in the GF until the day I die, (and the thump on the chest). No-one thought Joey would be the player he was. On the other hand you just knew that Harvey, Roo, Plugger & Winmar were special....

Sorry I'll get off my soapbox now but it has been something that has been bugging me. Peace out and I loves youse all!!

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Spot on Kipper!

 

[Persevering Saint]

Just watching the first quarter and almost had movement. Savage kickout to Webster, unbelievable kick to Minchington who delivered another bullet to Gilbert. Orgasmic.

Followed by Gilbert missing everything and putting it OOF. "One of these kicks is not like the other, one of these kicks is not the same..."

 

[#gosaintas]

That kick from Minch is why we should persevere with him

 

[Hayes4PM]

Dunstan was playing a very attacking/roving role. Not his usual role at all. He was forward and also 3rd man up at ruck contests, it was also quite similar to Billings game at times. I wouldn't read too much into it.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Dunstan was playing a very attacking/roving role. Not his usual role at all. He was forward and also 3rd man up at ruck contests, it was also quite similar to Billings game at times. I wouldn't read too much into it.

Richo just furthering the education of our young players. He obviously wants to build a very versatile team where players can play their role no matter where on the field they are situated. Hence why Savage has spent more time forward too recently. Mixing things up, giving guys new opportunities & see how they respond.

He doesn't have a reputation for being one of the best developers of young talent for nothing.

 

[Barrels]

That's my point - he's still a lock and yes agreed he was beaten against Hogan.

I guess I am frustrated by some on here who think a player should be dropped after one bad performance. It just doesn't work like that, especially if they have played a swathe of serviceable and decent games. In Delaney's case the guy was top 5 B&F last season. Yes everyone is allowed and should voice their opinions but sometimes I just get frustrated with posters wanting Newnes dropped or in this case Delaney dropped or even Billings dropped. They are easily best 22 and it's about a long game - players don't become a jet after 5 games, it takes years. Whilst most posters understand this there are some who I'm guessing just can't see the big picture.

Also surely the club has a better idea of who should be playing and who shouldn't? We don't know who is sore, who is playing injured and so ion. Last year I called out that Jack was playing injured and hadn't got over the foot injury. I also said that something was wrong with Joey, (I didn't know what it was but you could see that the guy was troubled by something) yet people were frustrated and not happy, (which is their god given right - this is why the forum works as its a place for like minded supporters to discuss and debate anything about the club).

Maybe not everyone can identify whether a player is going to make it or not? Identify whether a player has a better chance of turning into an A grade player, (or even elite). I don't profess to be a guru in this at all but I think after you've watched the game for years and years you have seen players start and struggle and then after 2,3,4,5 or even 8 years finally become the player he and we all hoped they would be, you would have some kind of idea of identifying who might make it and who won't. And that is what makes it all subjective as its all opinion based. However when you see a player like Newnes you know he is going to make it. People thought BJ was struggling before he found his groove. I will never forget that mark and goal in the GF until the day I die, (and the thump on the chest). No-one thought Joey would be the player he was. On the other hand you just knew that Harvey, Roo, Plugger & Winmar were special....

Sorry I'll get off my soapbox now but it has been something that has been bugging me. Peace out and I loves youse all!!

TL;DR

The reality is every full back has someone get a hold of them at some point or another.

Plugger, Dunstall and Ablett Snr all kicked huge bags on the like of SOS and Smart, who were very very good players.

 

[Hannabal]

At least we have stayed true to our recruiting model and haven't recruited blokes like Harry O, Vince, the ex Bulldogs bloke etc, as was duly noted by Bomber.
We won whilst getting games into youth, they lost playing old recruits with no long term future or scope for improvement.
Sucks to be a Demons supporter........

We also lost with Petracca, who was more ready than Brayshaw, Salem (pick 8), who's been terrific this season, Frost, who has enormous upside, Kent - best 22, vandenBerg, who has been huge, and I still hope Trengove can overcome his foot. We have other young players I rate, but you wouldn't have heard of them. There's plenty of quality youth not playing at the moment who'll be best 22 when available. And we played a first gamer and a 2 gamer.

Alas, I'll defer to an expert on our list.

Btw, Vince has been terrific.

See you at the G in a few weeks.

 

[Barrels]

Turns out the umpire tandem-screwing us with that little germ Chamberlain was Terry Wallet's son...