Opinion Rate the Players

[tigs2010]

A few weeks ago I was having a good chuckle at Mark MacLure rate the Carlton players based on Mick Malthouse's A/B/C method he was apparently asked to do for the club. Watching Mick talk about it he said you basically need something like 6-8 A-grade players to be a top team. And then you're looking at needing around 12-15 B graders at least. Then you'd have a few C's as depth and a few C's who are just your youth starting out rounding out the 30 odd that you would call upon.

I've been to watch a few neutral games to get a feel for where other teams are at. Then I watched today unfold and there is a stark difference between what I'd have originally called an A/B/C for us to what I'd say now. So anyway I decided I'd stop being lazy and actually have a crack at it.

A couple of provisions are I won't put in blokes who haven't played an AFL game yet and youngsters 2-3 games in I'll just call a C.

This is my attempt based on where guys are at now and based on the last 12 months as opposed to where they could be. I.e. Chaplin is probably a B (was good last year) but playing like a C (this year)

Some guys were also borderline B/C (I put the good kicks in B and the poor in C)

A-Graders: Brett Deledio, Jack Riewoldt, Trent Cotchin.

B-Graders: Dustin Martin, Brandon Ellis, Bachar Houli, Chris Knights, Alex Rance, Ivan Maric, Daniel Jackson, Troy Chaplin, Tyrone Vickery, Reece Conca, Nick Vlastuin,
C-Graders: Chris Newman, Dylan Grimes, Shaun Grigg, Matt Dea, Shane Edwards, Jake Batchelor, David Astbury (pushing his way up into the next group), Ricky Petterd, Shaun Hampson, Matt Thomas, Todd Banfield, Ben Griffiths, Anthony Miles, Aaron Edwards, Jake King, Brad Helbig, Matt McDonough, Orren Stephenson, Steve Morris, Nathan Gordon, Nathan Foley, Sam Lloyd, Todd Elton, Matt Arnot, Brett O'Hanlon.

Yet to Debut: Kamdyn McIntosh, Liam McBean, Ben Lennon, Cadeyn Williams, Ben Darrou.

What this list shows me is we rely very heavily on too few at the top. With one of our A-grader mids out the other is going to struggle with a tag. 3 of the B-graders are also out, 1 is clearly underdone and 2 are playing like C-graders.

Now my question to everyone is who from the B's can become A's (or C's if they go backwards) who from the C's and yet to debut guys can become A's or B's?

 

[courtjester]

Dustin is an A. A fit Maric is an A.

 

[nut]

How many A graders do Port have???? and do they really give a shit? ...... make do with what you have and create a winning culture.

We have enough cattle..... talent is not the problem its the way we are playing.

 

[kempinsky]

How many A graders do Port have???? and do they really give a shit? ...... make do with what you have and create a winning culture.

We have enough cattle..... talent is not the problem its the way we are playing.

Given that argument, you could say every team has enough "cattle". The table above shows that we have few in the top echelon. Port certainly have more than us. We, like a lot of bottom 8 sides could use an injection of class or we wait for the 50 gamers to develop like vlas and ellis.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

We have 5 A graders
Lids , Cotchin , Martin , Reiwoldt and at a pinch Maric fit.

We have no B graders .

The rest are c or d graders .

Some of those are developing players who have the potential to become b or a graders whilst others have limited potential which is why opposition clubs let them go.
Our issues is our lack of quality depth .

The opposition use b-c graders to shut down our a graders and then we are forced to use c or d graders against the oppositions a or b graders .

 

[Neen]

A-Graders: Brett Deledio, Jack Riewoldt, Trent Cotchin, Dustin Martin, Ivan Maric

B-Graders: Brandon Ellis, Bachar Houli, Alex Rance, Daniel Jackson, Reece Conca, Nick Vlastuin, David Astbury

C-Graders: Troy Chaplin, Tyrone Vickery,Chris Knights, Chris Newman, Dylan Grimes, Jake Batchelor, Matt Thomas, Ben Griffiths, Anthony Miles, Aaron Edwards, Brad Helbig, Matt McDonough, Orren Stephenson, Steve Morris, Nathan Gordon, Nathan Foley, Sam Lloyd, Todd Elton, Matt Arnot, Brett O'Hanlon.

D-Graders: Shaun Grigg, Matt Dea, Shane Edwards, Ricky Petterd, Shaun Hampson, Jake King, Todd Banfield

C-Graders would struggle to get a game at another club, but the younger players are worth playing after the Geelong game. The D-Graders should be left at VFL level or traded / delisted.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

A-Graders: Brett Deledio, Jack Riewoldt, Trent Cotchin, Dustin Martin, Ivan Maric

B-Graders: Brandon Ellis, Bachar Houli, Alex Rance, Daniel Jackson, Reece Conca, Nick Vlastuin, David Astbury

C-Graders: Troy Chaplin, Tyrone Vickery,Chris Knights, Chris Newman, Dylan Grimes, Jake Batchelor, Matt Thomas, Ben Griffiths, Anthony Miles, Aaron Edwards, Brad Helbig, Matt McDonough, Orren Stephenson, Steve Morris, Nathan Gordon, Nathan Foley, Sam Lloyd, Todd Elton, Matt Arnot, Brett O'Hanlon.

D-Graders: Shaun Grigg, Matt Dea, Shane Edwards, Ricky Petterd, Shaun Hampson, Jake King, Todd Banfield

C-Graders would struggle to get a game at another club, but the younger players are worth playing after the Geelong game. The D-Graders should be left at VFL level or traded / delisted.

B-Graders: Brandon Ellis, Bachar Houli, Alex Rance, Daniel Jackson, Reece Conca, Nick Vlastuin, David Astbury

I argue this none of them are consistant whilst with the exception of Ellis none of them would come into equation when considering players who are going to influence the result of the game . Not a huge issue as most are not far into their careers and most have POTENTIAL . But for mine they are far from b graders in my sense .
'A graders ' players who influence games regardless of attention paid.
' B graders 'players who influence a game and alter a result of a game with no attention paid .
'C graders ' foot soldiers who can defensively role play with minimal offensive impact, yet show the occasional glimpse.
'D graders ' show the rarest of glimpses , have the ability at times to shut down players and role play with inconsistentcy.

 

[tigs2010]

Yeh Maric is. Martin isn't. He could be but he is a fair way off. By comparison to our players sure. To the rest of the comp not even close. A-graders don't choose when to show up.

 

[Tigerland]

We have 5 A graders
Lids , Cotchin , Martin , Reiwoldt and at a pinch Maric fit.

We have no B graders .

The rest are c or d graders .

Some of those are developing players who have the potential to become b or a graders whilst others have limited potential which is why opposition clubs let them go.
Our issues is our lack of quality depth .

The opposition use b-c graders to shut down our a graders and then we are forced to use c or d graders against the oppositions a or b graders .

Vlaustin is a B grader and will become an A grader for sure. Hopefully so will Ellis.

Martin is an A that plays half his games as a B grader.

Maric is a B grader.

We have a lot of C's.

Half a dozen players in our side are D graders

I would rate our coach a C grader and our game plan and fitness a D.

Our intensity and determination is too bad to even score.

 

[tigs2010]

How many A graders do Port have???? and do they really give a shit? ...... make do with what you have and create a winning culture.

We have enough cattle..... talent is not the problem its the way we are playing.

6 with 2 borderline.

 

[TerraTiger]

A few weeks ago I was having a good chuckle at Mark MacLure rate the Carlton players based on Mick Malthouse's

A-Graders: Brett Deledio, Jack Riewoldt, Trent Cotchin.

B-Graders: Dustin Martin, Brandon Ellis, Bachar Houli, Chris Knights, Alex Rance, Ivan Maric, Daniel Jackson, Troy Chaplin, Tyrone Vickery, Reece Conca, Nick Vlastuin,
C-Graders: Chris Newman, Dylan Grimes, Shaun Grigg, Matt Dea, Shane Edwards, Jake Batchelor, David Astbury (pushing his way up into the next group), Ricky Petterd, Shaun Hampson, Matt Thomas, Todd Banfield, Ben Griffiths, Anthony Miles, Aaron Edwards, Jake King, Brad Helbig, Matt McDonough, Orren Stephenson, Steve Morris, Nathan Gordon, Nathan Foley, Sam Lloyd, Todd Elton, Matt Arnot, Brett O'Hanlon.

Yet to Debut: Kamdyn McIntosh, Liam McBean, Ben Lennon, Cadeyn Williams, Ben Darrou.

Nice Analysis T2010. Agree with lots of it and highlights how dependent we are on top end talent.

As i say, agree with the ratings apart from:
Knights - I see his as C. Been years since he was at his best. While has solid skills is slow (not what we need atm IMO) and obviously injury prone. He wasn't getting a gig at Adelaide when he was released. Alot of hope on this board about Knights. Personally i think that wishful thinking and I'm treating *any* good stuff from him as a bonus.

Chaplin is probably B however his form this year has been a huge worry. Needs to beat a man. Yesterday, while it may have been the angle i was viewing at, he looked like he pulled out of a contest which I was livid about. On this year's form is C.

Glad you put Maric as B. All heart and guts, love the big fella, but unlike some folks rating him A, I think he is a legit B as he can be exposed quite easily by taller ruckman. And while generally good around the ground by sheer will power more athletic guys can get him on this aspect too. Having said that, hurry back big fella!

I don't think this is all doom and gloom either. I think quite a few of the C's can become B's. We just need to play and develop them. Griffiths, McDonough, Gordon, Arnot. Hopefully some of the guys that we haven't even seen yet (at all, or this year), McBean, O'hanlon, Lennon. There is lots of potential there in my mind. We just need to cut the deadwood in C and D while still providing some level of protection to those developing (hence can't just blanket chuck out Grigg, Petterd, Newy ....we need to be sensible). This should be Dimma's mandate now from Dan Richo.

Nice post!

 

[tigs2010]

Nice Analysis T2010. Agree with lots of it and highlights how dependent we are on top end talent.

As i say, agree with the ratings apart from:
Knights - I see his as C. Been years since he was at his best. While has solid skills is slow (not what we need atm IMO) and obviously injury prone. He wasn't getting a gig at Adelaide when he was released. Alot of hope on this board about Knights. Personally i think that wishful thinking and I'm treating *any* good stuff from him as a bonus.

I put him as a B because I think last years form he was a B. Whether or not we ever see him out there performing is a totally different story which means yet again we are relying on less and less players.

Chaplin is probably B however his form this year has been a huge worry. Needs to beat a man. Yesterday, while it may have been the angle i was viewing at, he looked like he pulled out of a contest which I was livid about. On this year's form is C.

As I said at the start he's playing like a C this year but was a B last year. Hoping it's just a form slump and he's not going to permanently drop into the C category because then we are in more trouble. Astbury though is probably deserving of pushing into the B if he keeps this form up all year.

Glad you put Maric as B. All heart and guts, love the big fella, but unlike some folks rating him A, I think he is a legit B as he can be exposed quite easily by taller ruckman. And while generally good around the ground by sheer will power more athletic guys can get him on this aspect too. Having said that, hurry back big fella!

This is what a B-grader should be. Goes out does his job each week, tries his arse off, has good skills, good endurance and runs to the death.

I don't think this is all doom and gloom either. I think quite a few of the C's can become B's. We just need to play and develop them. Griffiths, McDonough, Gordon, Arnot. Hopefully some of the guys that we haven't even seen yet (at all, or this year), McBean, O'hanlon, Lennon. There is lots of potential there in my mind. We just need to cut the deadwood in C and D while still providing some level of protection to those developing (hence can't just blanket chuck out Grigg, Petterd, Newy ....we need to be sensible). This should be Dimma's mandate now from Dan Richo.

Nice post!

Agree, it's not doom and gloom, hence I started the thread to see who people think can make the leap either 1 group or even 2.

I think we'd be hoping Martin becomes a genuine A-grader along with Vlastuin, Ellis, Lennon and then maybe one like McBean pops up. Probably looking at a top 10 pick this year too. If Astbury can make this his standard then we have gained another B. Then have guys like McDonough/McIntosh/Miles/Gordon/Lloyd/Arnot/Griffiths push up to being B-graders and we are on our way.

 

[DustinsGuns]

The only player's on our list who would be currently getting a game for Hawthorn would be:

Cotchin (Hallahan)
Deledio (Duryea)
Rance (Simpkin)
Riewoldt (Hale)
Maric (McEvoy)

That's not many players

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

The only player's on our list who would be currently getting a game for Hawthorn would be:

Cotchin (Hallahan)
Deledio (Duryea)
Rance (Simpkin)
Riewoldt (Hale)
Maric (McEvoy)

That's not many players

Was just thinking of that myself.
Thats about right although a line call on Rance.Not sure they would tolerate him falling over all the time.

 

[tigs2010]

The only player's on our list who would be currently getting a game for Hawthorn would be:

Cotchin (Hallahan)
Deledio (Duryea)
Rance (Simpkin)
Riewoldt (Hale)
Maric (McEvoy)

That's not many players

inb4 Martin. And I agree they wouldn't give him a game until he pulled his finger out, improved his fitness and became the A-grader he should be.

 

[theflea]

It all depends on how you classify a,b,c's. I would argue that Rance is an A grade player as I think he is better than a b grader. We miss him dearly.

 

[tigs2010]

It all depends on how you classify a,b,c's. I would argue that Rance is an A grade player as I think he is better than a b grader. We miss him dearly.

Yeh he's probably the 4th actually. Will be even better with Astbury holding down FB.

 

[theflea]

Yeh he's probably the 4th actually. Will be even better with Astbury holding down FB.

A bit like scarlett and lonergan.

 

[jko'neal]

The only player's on our list who would be currently getting a game for Hawthorn would be:

Cotchin (Hallahan)
Deledio (Duryea)
Rance (Simpkin)
Riewoldt (Hale)
Maric (McEvoy)

That's not many players

Maybe so, but average players at top sides don't get exposed. Hawthorn have got players that would be average big time if playing somewhere like Melbourne. You can't be honest thinking someone like Paul Puopolo would be keeping some of our guys out of games on pure football ability. He does his role, but on football ability he wouldn't keep a guys like Jackson,Ellis or Martin out of a game.

 

[sante]

The only player's on our list who would be currently getting a game for Hawthorn would be:

Cotchin (Hallahan)
Deledio (Duryea)
Rance (Simpkin)
Riewoldt (Hale)
Maric (McEvoy)

That's not many players

Vlastuin, Ellis and Conca would be. Gun young mids.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Vlastuin, Ellis and Conca would be. Gun young mids.

Conca?

 

[sante]

Conca?

Yes Luke Conca

 

[tigs2010]

Conca has probably been our 2nd best mid this year. He's been solid and ok.

 

[sante]

Conca has probably been our 2nd best mid this year. He's been solid and ok.

Yep. Off a shit pre-season too.

He's the in and under midfielder we need. Not Thomas. Just need Arnot and Miles in there.

 

[tigs2010]

Yep. Off a shit pre-season too.

He's the in and under midfielder we need. Not Thomas. Just need Arnot and Miles in there.

And Vlastuin. Problem with him being our 2nd best is he has only been ok. Severely lacks fitness and I still don't think he's confident in his body or ability. Needs to get the body right and he will be a solid player. Don't think he'll ever be a star or an A-grader but he will be a good solid B-grade player who is an important cog in a top team.

Real indictment on the other mids because off no pre-season we shouldn't be expecting him to carry this load so young.