Ratten's comments

[branedotorg]

i think thorton is a significantly better skills player than maxwell, maxwell is distinctly average but he's the avatar for modern day collingwood. he's hard at it, never gives up & plays smart disciplined agressive football that minimises his skill limitations. a deserved premiership captain through hard work & prep.
tbh i like thornton but comparing him to maxwell is never going to look good.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Agree!

Thornton should base his game on Maxwells.

Needs to harden up 15% and be more attacking from defence.

Both Thornton and Maxwell are massive w***ers as well, which gives me more confidence he can play a similar style game.

I was massive w***er in my teenage years and it didn't help me make it to the AFL ??

 

[CrippsonBlue]

I was massive w***er in my teenage years and it didn't help me make it to the AFL ??

Obviously you have a lack of commitment - glad we stayed well away.

 

[Sublime]

I was massive w***er in my teenage years and it didn't help me make it to the AFL ??

Obviously you have a lack of commitment - glad we stayed well away.

Might've picked you up as a mature aged rookie if you'd have stuck with the massive w***erdom into your early 20's!

 

[Swishhh10]

Ratts forgot to say that No 16 has been freed up for the next Buckley champion. And only 1 year too early.

Thinking ahead Blues!!

Hey Grigg, send your locker key straight to Dylan will ya?

 

[Swishhh10]

And how old did you say the first little SOS is? No1 gone soon.

 

[tipstar]

something I found interesting....

Bret Thornton Name Nick Maxwell
Carlton Blues Team Collingwood Magpies
Defender Position Defender
161 Career Games 140
November 15, 1983 Date of Birth June 3, 1983
26yr 10mth Age 27yr 4mth
192cm Height 193cm
92kg Weight 90kg
2001 Rookie Draft Last Drafted In 2002 Rookie Draft
Round 1, Pick #11 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #15
2010 Stats for Season 2010
12 Games 22
10.2 Kicks Per Game 8.4
5.8 Handballs Per Game 7.0
16.0 Disposals Per Game 15.4
6.6 Marks Per Game 5.5
0.3 Goals Per Game 0
0 Behinds Per Game 0.1
1.6 Tackles Per Game 2.7
0.2 Hitouts Per Game 0.3
0.4 Inside 50s Per Game 1.4
0.2 Goal Assists Per Game 0.1
0.5 Goals Contributed Per Game 0.1
0.8 Frees For Per Game 0.6
1.0 Frees Against Per Game 0.8

 

[Sublime]

something I found interesting....

Bret Thornton Name Nick Maxwell
Carlton Blues Team Collingwood Magpies
Defender Position Defender
161 Career Games 140
November 15, 1983 Date of Birth June 3, 1983
26yr 10mth Age 27yr 4mth
192cm Height 193cm
92kg Weight 90kg
2001 Rookie Draft Last Drafted In 2002 Rookie Draft
Round 1, Pick #11 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #15
2010 Stats for Season 2010
12 Games 22
10.2 Kicks Per Game 8.4
5.8 Handballs Per Game 7.0
16.0 Disposals Per Game 15.4
6.6 Marks Per Game 5.5
0.3 Goals Per Game 0
0 Behinds Per Game 0.1
1.6 Tackles Per Game 2.7
0.2 Hitouts Per Game 0.3
0.4 Inside 50s Per Game 1.4
0.2 Goal Assists Per Game 0.1
0.5 Goals Contributed Per Game 0.1
0.8 Frees For Per Game 0.6
1.0 Frees Against Per Game 0.8

One thing i found interesting also.

Maxwell was interested in defending and helping his team mates out.

 

[Dramoth]

That is the problem, isn't it?

It is possible but won't be easy.
Hope he's got the cracker he needed through this year, and applies himself harder for the sake of the team.

I keep saying it, but we have the talent to be uber-competitive.
Just need the talent on and off the field to work as one.
Easier said than done but looking forward to see what the new coaches inject into our game style next year.

We saw what happened when he was dropped for poor form at the start of the year... dropped his head in the ants and had a sook for a couple of weeks before he started to apply himself again.

Then he really blotted his copy book in the freo game and was gone.

He needs to learn that he isnt the most important member of our defence any more because we have guys who are as good, if not better, than him and he is getting passed by because of his negative game play.

He needs to learn that we now have the team to back our play on at all costs game style and by going backwards or sideways, he isnt helping the cause.

 

[The Great Ian]

Sentana has been tried everywhere, including defence, and his decision making has left a lot to be desired.

Bullants player who should only be played as back up.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

We saw what happened when he was dropped for poor form at the start of the year... dropped his head in the ants and had a sook for a couple of weeks before he started to apply himself again.

Then he really blotted his copy book in the freo game and was gone.

He needs to learn that he isnt the most important member of our defence any more because we have guys who are as good, if not better, than him and he is getting passed by because of his negative game play.

He needs to learn that we now have the team to back our play on at all costs game style and by going backwards or sideways, he isnt helping the cause.

(** Sorry posted this in a earlier thread but probably more relevant here )




Thornton is an interesting one.


Based on his performances for the Bullants, if he was an unknown called 'Bert Thornton' rather than our much unloved Brett Thornton, I reckon we'd all be calling for the club to recruit this guy from the VFL and become the next Michael Barlow.


I think the idea of him becoming a Nick Maxwell type backman has merit - he has good hands, his disposal is OK and he is a genuine footballer unlike Setanta so his decision making should be ok as well (who does Nick Maxwell play on anyway ???)


Another option - its been known for 28 year olds on their last chance to re-invent themselves as taggers. Could Thornton get himself super fit and play a stopping role like a Robert Copeland did for Brisbane or has the game gone past that ???

 

[gbatman]

It's funny how I used to compare him to Maxwell. Maxwell out performs him because. Maxwell is smarter and quicker and a quicker decision maker. Collingwood's style of play suits Maxwell and their midfield pressure and defencive press protects Maxwell who like Thornton is easily beaten when played on any one half decent. Maxwell seems to run and carry the footy a bit too. Maxwell has a bit of mongrel in him, he takes his oppertunities to crunch players where Thornton doesn't. I don't recon Thornton has layed a bump since he took on Neitz and came off second best years ago.

 

[rp84]

Sorry ladies and gents, but a few key points.

1. AW is not, and never will be, a consistent midfielder. CANNOT tackle, kick, or make decisions. The closest he'll get to the middle is on a wing, where he can get out in space. As someone correctly pointed out, getting hit all day, and being able to run 20km in a game are very different from doing it around Princess Park. His only value to the team is that he can play multiple positions, which should not be undersold with the new rules.

MAYBE, just maybe, if he is on a wing, he can blow up his opponents, get enough time and space that he can pick out targets and kick well. Realistically though, he is about a D grade kick, so I strongly doubt that this will happen regularly.

As always though, I hope he proves me wrong. This case, it won't happen though. Best we can hope for is a serviceable year, then a round 1 pick from GWS.

2. Setanta is an interesting one. Has so many glaring deficiencies, that it must be near impossible for him to hold down the hardest position on the field. People question his ability to zone off. I'm not sure this is the issue. I'm sure, with Bower (and Laidler) who play tall, doing the zoning off, the MC would be ecstatic if he can just play a lock down role. If he can do this, his size and athleticsm would be ridiculously useful. Personally, I think he'll still be exploited deep in defence. Also, his clanger kicking out of defence will kill us. Making a mistake 100m from goal, is nowhere near as bad as within 50...obviously.

3. Thorton...will be delisted. People really have rose-coloured glasses on with this one. I won't deny he has the size and talent. Its application, lack of leadership and as someone rightly pointed out, a complete lack of attacking flair. To compare him to Maxwell is utterly ridiculous. Maxwell is the best 3rd man up since Harley made the position his own. If he stays, WILL NOT play senior football.

 

[Boltfromtheblue]

something I found interesting....

Bret Thornton Name Nick Maxwell
Carlton Blues Team Collingwood Magpies
Defender Position Defender
161 Career Games 140
November 15, 1983 Date of Birth June 3, 1983
26yr 10mth Age 27yr 4mth
192cm Height 193cm
92kg Weight 90kg
2001 Rookie Draft Last Drafted In 2002 Rookie Draft
Round 1, Pick #11 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #15
2010 Stats for Season 2010
12 Games 22
10.2 Kicks Per Game 8.4
5.8 Handballs Per Game 7.0
16.0 Disposals Per Game 15.4
6.6 Marks Per Game 5.5
0.3 Goals Per Game 0
0 Behinds Per Game 0.1
1.6 Tackles Per Game 2.7
0.2 Hitouts Per Game 0.3
0.4 Inside 50s Per Game 1.4
0.2 Goal Assists Per Game 0.1
0.5 Goals Contributed Per Game 0.1
0.8 Frees For Per Game 0.6
1.0 Frees Against Per Game 0.8
w***er Personality w***er

The likeness is uncanny!

 

[Boltfromtheblue]

It's funny how I used to compare him to Maxwell. Maxwell out performs him because. Maxwell is smarter and quicker and a quicker decision maker. Collingwood's style of play suits Maxwell and their midfield pressure and defencive press protects Maxwell who like Thornton is easily beaten when played on any one half decent. Maxwell seems to run and carry the footy a bit too. Maxwell has a bit of mongrel in him, he takes his oppertunities to crunch players where Thornton doesn't. I don't recon Thornton has layed a bump since he took on Neitz and came off second best years ago.

Would love to see a bit more of this especially in our defenders. Jamo, Bower are not agro enough for my liking. We need some of the big boys to put on the angry face more often. Army has it. Joseph does too but isn't very smart sometimes and gives away free kicks. Setanta used to do it, so maybe he'll stir people up a bit.

 

[Dustyjackman]

Agree!

Thornton should base his game on Maxwells.

Needs to harden up 15% and be more attacking from defence.

Both Thornton and Maxwell are massive w***ers as well, which gives me more confidence he can play a similar style game.

I openly laughed

 

[rp84]

One thing i found interesting also.

Maxwell was interested in defending and helping his team mates out.

I am worried that in your profile pic, Ratts looks a little too much like George W.

 

[BLUE BLEEDING]

If we are serious about being top 4 contenders next year and beyond players such as O'hAilpin and Thornton should not be getting a game.

Merely depth/VFL players waiting to get the chop.

 

[BlueTongue]

I think Carlos would make a spiffing CHB.

He is agile and can take a mark (but probably better suited to the forward line).

I seem to remember he played back there a few years ago and did well on Jonathan Brown (kept him to 3 goals & hardly any influence) and also on Lloyd who was quiet also (may have jagged a couple back in the last qtr) apart from Carlos really getting up his nose and as Carlos was bigger and more psycho, Lloyd didn't push him too far.

Back then he gave away a few too many free kicks for holding (couldn't read the play as well as opponents and got caught out) & over the shoulder etc but now he has played he game a bit longer I'm sure he wouldn't be so bad in this area. I think he would definitely be better than Bower there (Bower is a good mid-sized defender but never works his way in front - he plays the hold and spoil too much - and is often rag dolled by bigger opponents).

 

[chief 69]

I seem to remember he played back there a few years ago and did well on Jonathan Brown (kept him to 3 goals & hardly any influence) and also on Lloyd who was quiet also (may have jagged a couple back in the last qtr) apart from Carlos really getting up his nose and as Carlos was bigger and more psycho, Lloyd didn't push him too far.

Back then he gave away a few too many free kicks for holding (couldn't read the play as well as opponents and got caught out) & over the shoulder etc but now he has played he game a bit longer I'm sure he wouldn't be so bad in this area. I think he would definitely be better than Bower there (Bower is a good mid-sized defender but never works his way in front - he plays the hold and spoil too much - and is often rag dolled by bigger opponents).

as long as the irishman is playing we will be jogging up and down on the spot he is terrible let,s face it how many other clubs would he get a game at answer big fat zero

 

[reg_lower91]

I honestly can't understand this comparison between Thornton and Maxwell. Yes, i can understand that they are very similar players, but Maxwell's role only suits teams using a defensive press. i.e. Collingwood, saints, etc. This is why Hawthorn have shown interest in Thornton over several years as this has been the type of player they've lacked to help out Hodge doing a SIMILAR role (i.e. going back with the flight of the ball, chopping off kicks, zoning off, etc.).

Carlton plays too attacking for Thornton to even consider playing this role. A turn over by Carlton often means that the ball has reached the other end within 10 seconds. With such pace, and space, for the other team going forward Thornton simply can't position himself quickly enough. Collingwood, however, has the ball locked in their forward half for sometimes minutes at a time - enabling Maxwell to play this type of roll.

Also, whilst Maxwell is very good at this role, Maxwell is probably one of the weakest players in the Collingwood squad for one-on-ones. 8 times out of 10 Maxwell will get beaten in one on ones. Would love to see his mark-to-goals-conceded ratio. Or even better, his marks-to-marks-conceded ratio. The same problem exists with Thornton however for reasons listed above, as well as lack of support from experienced defenders around him, Thornton's deficiencies in one-on-ones hurt us more than Maxwells do for Collingwood.

 

[Sin City]

I seem to remember he played back there a few years ago and did well on Jonathan Brown (kept him to 3 goals & hardly any influence) and also on Lloyd who was quiet also (may have jagged a couple back in the last qtr) apart from Carlos really getting up his nose and as Carlos was bigger and more psycho, Lloyd didn't push him too far.

He went back on a red hot Pavlich two years ago as well and played a great game after Pav started off very well. Got 19 touches himself although his ball movement made Thornton look like Wojcinski

 

[TheKITC]

I like the idea of sending Setanta back, but I don'thold a hell of a lot of hope. We all know he has to attributes to do it, so hopefully the culmination of his several years at our club can come together. 50-50 though I reckon. It's his last shot.

Is Thornton contracted? If not, he might walk anyway but judging by Ratts' comments he must be. If so he needs a decent year up forward to get another. Can't see him being with us in 2012.

I'm a real wait and see with Walker. He is one of the only players on our list that I feel compelled to defend at times and criticise at others, he throws up so many questions and has not a) had a chance to settle in a position and b) had a consistant injury free run. I hope he gets this chance in 2012 and shows us something.

 

[gbatman]

Sorry if this has already been covered but found Ratten's comments on the AFL website interesting.



Looks like we may finally be getting the changes we've been asking for.
Walker to the midfield
O'Hailpin to CHB (concerns on this one)
Thornton to the forward line (I presume)

Think out of all of these, with Walker being the obvious one, i think the Thornton change will be the one to pay off the most. Has a good set of hands but accountability and ability to chase and tackle worries me.

Thoughts??

We heard it all last year. Ratts going on about players ending up in different positions like Judd at FF.

We would to completly change the way our midfield plays to make Thornton viable. We'd need to be very defencive, even then I haven't much faith in Thornton being a valuable player and help us to a flag.

O'hAilpin at CHB maybe but his lack of physicality and apparently short arms as well as his weak spoiling and his unwillingness to spoil with his body makes me think this wont work.

Walker in the midfield. Walker is an attacking midfielder. Let him play there let him run loose. This one seems on the money.

Changes I'd like to see tried:

Bower forward. Tall strong, good hands, very fast and agile and a good kick. To me he's got CHF or even FF written all over him. Moved forward against the dons and took a nice chest mark used his body well and slotted a goal. He could be tought to match up on.

Walker in the center in Judd's roving role. Walker is a player who can cover a lot of ground and take marks and run hard. He takes risks with his kicking which is good but it makes him appear a poor kick. Let him lose in the midfield.

Judd on the wing. Get Judd on the wing playing an outside role. Might stop taggers blocking him and pushing him into the congestion etc. Let him run a bit loser. Might make Murphy and Gibbs better player by putting more responsibilities on them and make them front seat drivers instead of back seat passengers like when Judd is on the ball.

White at full back or CHB. For one I think he's taller than what he's listed. He is not the same height as Russell, he is taller than Thornton, no one is 190cm and 98 kg. He might make a good fullback.

Simpson at half back. His run, hardness and kicking as well as his ability to get the ball could be good there. He struggles to beat tags, this might help keep him in the game and from being tagged out.

Lucas on the wing. He's a good runner and a good kick, lets get the ball in his hands and have him kicking to our forwards.

Austin at CHB. It's about time we tested him out.

Garlett on the wing. This is a no-brainer.

Yarran at half back. He should be fit next year and be able to run with his man, and use his skill, evaciveness and pace to give us a bit of half back.


Touhy at half back. Get him into the team, he'll be a good one.