Religion

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ShanDog said:
I understand what you are saying, I just don't think it's right to compare same sex parenting with bringing children up with a faith. This has gone way off track.
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I don't see why not, somebody said its not fair bringing the child up with a faith and I thought it was equally as unfair if not more so bringing them up with same sex parents... This has gone a bit off track though you are right!!
 
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Oh dear, only just saw the thread tile and am slightly scared to read everything.

I am a Christian. Will readily state that but I honestly don't have any stance of abortion, gay marriage etc. Got so sick of hearing that I had to care and had to be either for or against is probably what pushed me into not caring either way. Although I have had quite a number of relatives tell me I must hate gay people if I am Christian.

I do what I do, you do what you do. That is my motto.
 

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Moe B said:
I don't see why not, somebody said its not fair bringing the child up with a faith and I thought it was equally as unfair if not more so bringing them up with same sex parents... This has gone a bit off track though you are right!!
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My point Moe is that children can never choose their parents--same sex or not. So I don't see how "kids don't choose homosexual parents therefore homosexuals should not be parents" is even a thing. As long as the child is loved and safe then it's no one else's business.

Styxx said:
Oh dear, only just saw the thread tile and am slightly scared to read everything.

I am a Christian. Will readily state that but I honestly don't have any stance of abortion, gay marriage etc. Got so sick of hearing that I had to care and had to be either for or against is probably what pushed me into not caring either way. Although I have had quite a number of relatives tell me I must hate gay people if I am Christian.

I do what I do, you do what you do. That is my motto.
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Don't be scared Styxx! Religion is a topic that gets people fired up, but I honestly don't think it has to be that way. Live and let live, that's my motto--pretty similar to yours, even though we are on different sides of the religion fence :)
 
Ok and I agree, unfortunately not every child is going to be born into a happy home which is not fair but it's just the world we live in... My point was not about the safety of the child and like you said the child really has no choice for anything at that age yet people criticize religious people for forcing a religion onto them, It is their child after all and is also no-one else's business.
 
As far as I am aware, this is supposed to be the place to discuss religious things...

As far as I am concerned, George Pell is a complete w***er and should be dragged back to Australia and locked away forever.
 
Dramoth said:
As far as I am aware, this is supposed to be the place to discuss religious things...

As far as I am concerned, George Pell is a complete ****** and should be dragged back to Australia and locked away forever.
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Agree.

After a trial of course - for cover ups and against the complaints of sexual abuse at his own hands too.
 
ShanDog said:
Agree.

After a trial of course - for cover ups and against the complaints of sexual abuse at his own hands too.
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I dont think he is a paedophile at all but he has some explaining to do regarding what he may have known about other people.
 
Not sure this is the right thread to have a meaningful discussion about specific examples of sexual abuse in the Catholic church.

These are religious people involved in sexual abuse. The religions themselves don't promote sexual abuse and all of those who practice a religion are not necessary condoning those of the same faith who are guilty of sexual abuse.

This thread was supposed to be a discussion about various faiths, the validity of religion, the counter argument to religion. This may be a step to the side of that.

I think it does open up a debate about celibacy in the church and whether the structure of some faiths provide cover for certain types to the detriment of the whole religion.
 
LanceRomance said:
I dont think he is a paedophile at all but he has some explaining to do regarding what he may have known about other people.
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I'm preeeeetty sure he has had allegations against him that never quite went anywhere but were considered to not be just slanderous/without basis.

Not out to hang the bloke, but yes, he he has a lot to answer for.
 

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LanceRomance said:
I dont think he is a paedophile at all but he has some explaining to do regarding what he may have known about other people.
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Apparently victims of allegations of child abuse currently being investigated by the Victorian priest have named "Big George" as the perpetrator.
 
The Old Dark Navy's said:
Not sure this is the right thread to have a meaningful discussion about specific examples of sexual abuse in the Catholic church.

These are religious people involved in sexual abuse. The religions themselves don't promote sexual abuse and all of those who practice a religion are not necessary condoning those of the same faith who are guilty of sexual abuse.

This thread was supposed to be a discussion about various faiths, the validity of religion, the counter argument to religion. This may be a step to the side of that.

I think it does open up a debate about celibacy in the church and whether the structure of some faiths provide cover for certain types to the detriment of the whole religion.
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Actually, it's a relevant discussion as far as I am concerned. Child abuse of both of my sisters I grew up with by one of the paedophile priests is what convinced me to give up being a good catholic. The catholic church has protected paedophiles for centuries.

Aside from all the lives they had taken during the crusades and through the myriad wars fought in "gods" name, more people have had their lives destroyed through the actions of the priests the church allowed to have positions of authority in the community. People have turned into drug addicts or developed other disorders... or even killed themselves because of the abuse they suffered at the hands of those animals.

I determined if a god existed, he has to be a malevolent god because how could a loving caring god as described by the catholic church allow his representatives on earth to hard innocents and soil any chance those souls have to get to heaven.

Ergo, there is no god.
 
The Old Dark Navy's said:
Not sure this is the right thread to have a meaningful discussion about specific examples of sexual abuse in the Catholic church.

These are religious people involved in sexual abuse. The religions themselves don't promote sexual abuse and all of those who practice a religion are not necessary condoning those of the same faith who are guilty of sexual abuse.

This thread was supposed to be a discussion about various faiths, the validity of religion, the counter argument to religion. This may be a step to the side of that.

I think it does open up a debate about celibacy in the church and whether the structure of some faiths provide cover for certain types to the detriment of the whole religion.
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Agree.


Dramoth said:
Actually, it's a relevant discussion as far as I am concerned. Child abuse of both of my sisters I grew up with by one of the paedophile priests is what convinced me to give up being a good catholic. The catholic church has protected paedophiles for centuries.

Aside from all the lives they had taken during the crusades and through the myriad wars fought in "gods" name, more people have had their lives destroyed through the actions of the priests the church allowed to have positions of authority in the community. People have turned into drug addicts or developed other disorders... or even killed themselves because of the abuse they suffered at the hands of those animals.

I determined if a god existed, he has to be a malevolent god because how could a loving caring god as described by the catholic church allow his representatives on earth to hard innocents and soil any chance those souls have to get to heaven.

Ergo, there is no god.
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It is a relevant discussion and belongs in SRP Dram:-

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/royal-commission-into-child-abuse.980616/page-50
 
I have nothing against people who believe in some form of religion just don't try push it on me and we can all just get along fine.
But I scratch my head when all I see is that religion causes more wars, hate, abuse, and tax dodgers than I'd like to think about.
As my non-religious parents taught me just treat others how you want to be treated, and it's far easier to smile than frown.
2 pretty easy rules to follow I reckon.
 
Was raised catholic (loosely) grew up and realised that it's ridiculous and oppressive and am now for all intents and purposes atheist. I have a particular gripe with Islam and think its scripture is inherently dangerously. Of course I support anybody's right to believe in any deity they want be it god, muhammad, buddha or the flying spaghetti monster, I just think they are all strange and are defy logic.
 
james Dean said:
Was raised catholic (loosely) grew up and realised that it's ridiculous and oppressive and am now for all intents and purposes atheist. I have a particular gripe with Islam and think its scripture is inherently dangerously. Of course I support anybody's right to believe in any deity they want be it god, muhammad, buddha or the flying spaghetti monster, I just think they are all strange and are defy logic.
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I'm muslim, which part of islam is dangerous? Please explain this to me, If you understand it that is... Funny joke about the flying speghetti monster but I find it equally as funny as someone that doesn't believe that there's a creator of this world... That it magically appeared from nothing, or that creative theory of it imploding from atoms or what not... Doesn't it defy logic that the earth exists in the perfect form that it's in without a creator? Or the perfect orbit of planets, sun and moon? You might need to rethink things...
 
Moe B said:
I'm muslim, which part of islam is dangerous? Please explain this to me, If you understand it that is...
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Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Sahih Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.
Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah.



Funny joke about the flying speghetti monster but I find it equally as funny as someone that doesn't believe that there's a creator of this world... That it magically appeared from nothing, or that creative theory of it imploding from atoms or what not...
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Where did I state that the origins of the universe can be explained? There is no definitive answer to that, you however are the one who believes that it was created by God. I am waiting for the answer to be revealed, it may never be revealed in my life time but I am not going to select an answer just for the sake of it.
Doesn't it defy logic that the earth exists in the perfect form that it's in without a creator? Or the perfect orbit of planets, sun and moon? You might need to rethink things...
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No it doesn't defy logic, how does it? Science has discovered so much over the past 5 centuries that have completely made most religious texts redundant. What defies logic is throwing your full support behind and dedicating your life to a cause which you can never be able to prove.
 
james Dean said:
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Sahih Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.
Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah.




Where did I state that the origins of the universe can be explained? There is no definitive answer to that, you however are the one who believes that it was created by God. I am waiting for the answer to be revealed, it may never be revealed in my life time but I am not going to select an answer just for the sake of it.
No it doesn't defy logic, how does it? Science has discovered so much over the past 5 centuries that have completely made most religious texts redundant. What defies logic is throwing your full support behind and dedicating your life to a cause which you can never be able to prove.
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Your qoute of the quran was actually in a battle called badr, so it was relevant for the time, not today... People travelled for miles to kill the muslims but that isn't relevant is it? Your quotes come from a time of war where people we're killing muslims everywhere, So I still don't understand how it's dangerous today?? I'm a heavy believer, does that make me dangerous? I'm not trying to be smart, I think we are judged unfairly nowadays... I'm a law abiding citizen and a true muslim like most and love this country therefore I don't think its fair to be put in a category that the extremists are in...

You're right you never said you had the answer to the origins of the universe but you were also very quick to rule out the possibilty of a creator and rely solely on science which is merely a theory that is unreliable and unproven ( Darwinian theory)... Knowledge of the earths shape was impossible to predict 1600 years ago, along with the explanation of the embryo and haloclines and many other things... Do you regard them as prediction or fact?

Science has made religious texts redundant? Give me a scientific fact that has disproved the quran? Just one will do...

I just want to ask without being rude or silly, but don't you ask yourself, how is the universe so perfect and the fact that we landed on the only planet that we can actually survive on? And have all the things we need? The fact that we have brains and eyes and a heart that all work for a purpose? How can that come from nothing, let's not say god, but a creator... There must be a creator to all of this, to me that is the only logical explanation... Something never came from nothing!!
 
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