Robert Shirley

[smoovy]

Is it time we started to be a little more critical? Or is that too harsh?

I am a big fan of Robert as he is hard in and under player who puts his body on the line with great courage.

However this year I think he has really struggled having any sort of impact on the game. What has his role been exactly? Is it tagger, run with player, ball winner? If it is ball winner then he really has struggled, as he has only had 20 possessions 5 times in 15 games.

If it is tagger then I cannot remember a game where he has really cut a player out of the game (correct me if i'm wrong).

He is always going to go under the radar to some extent as he is and never will be a player with great attacking flair.

I guess the question is also is there really any player waiting in the wings who could take his spot. If not, then it probably is end of discussion.

 

[crow87]

I think his role has changed this year, he's less of a tagger now and more of a defensive type midfielder IMO. Lets also not forget that he wins alot of contested ball, I think that we would be a poorer team without him and while you would not want him running into goals to win a GF for you, he does contribute. I remember reading that he's our #1 for contested possesions/hard ball gets or whatever you want to call it, with Huddo second. Dont know if this still stands but the fact that our ruckman is second I think reflects that our more premium midfielders benefit from the presence of Robert in actually coming into possesion of the ball. Just my thoughts.
Im a big fan of how Brisbane beat the Eagles, obviously they are down at the moment but theres a limit to tagging, without "harking back to the good old days" too much, Blighty would back our guys in, win the ball and try and beat the other side, not nullify them. Hence I support the new role he seems to have taken on this year.

 

[- PC -]

However this year I think he has really struggled having any sort of impact on the game. What has his role been exactly? Is it tagger, run with player, ball winner? If it is ball winner then he really has struggled, as he has only had 20 possessions 5 times in 15 games.

.

What has his opponents got?

Dal Santo 17 v Robs 16

Rob is averaging 18.5 possessions a game this year. Im happy with that

Dal Santo averaging 21.5

I wish these threads would disappear

 

[Stiffy_18]

What has his opponents got?

Dal Santo 17 v Robs 16

Rob is averaging 18.5 possessions a game this year. Im happy with that

Dal Santo averaging 21.5

I wish these threads would disappear

Sometimes people want to went anf just bitch for the sake of bitching without there actually being any reason to do so!

When ever we lose a game you have threads asking questions about players. Its the nature of the fickle supporters!!!!!

 

[CrowMagnum]

The point is well made. We don't have an effective tagger any more. You can debate his worth in other aspects of the game but he doesn't effectively tag any more, probably under instruction, and no-one else has taken his place.

Is the team worse off without a proper tagger? I have no doubt it is.

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

Is it time we started to be a little more critical? Or is that too harsh?

I am a big fan of Robert as he is hard in and under player who puts his body on the line with great courage.

However this year I think he has really struggled having any sort of impact on the game. What has his role been exactly? Is it tagger, run with player, ball winner? If it is ball winner then he really has struggled, as he has only had 20 possessions 5 times in 15 games.

If it is tagger then I cannot remember a game where he has really cut a player out of the game (correct me if i'm wrong).

He is always going to go under the radar to some extent as he is and never will be a player with great attacking flair.

I guess the question is also is there really any player waiting in the wings who could take his spot. If not, then it probably is end of discussion.

be careful, Shirley is a protected species around here.

If you critisize him you get the predictable "you obviously know nothing about football"

 

[WaynesWorld19]

The point is well made. We don't have an effective tagger any more. You can debate his worth in other aspects of the game but he doesn't effectively tag any more, probably under instruction, and no-one else has taken his place.

Is the team worse off without a proper tagger? I have no doubt it is.

No he's not a taggers a ...h...e ....and receives no recognition via the media or footy scribes to contradict that view.

IMO though he's had a pretty good season .....bloody awful PS but has come back and played some good games and been a bit more offensive this season that previously.

Our midfield to be brutally truthful is not gelling .....so we have to look at that midfield mix critically if we are to progress against the rest of the competition.

Reilly and Thompson are excellent midfielders out wide and in space ......but what we lack is that P. Burgoyne type ....a player that can operate in tight and with that very important attribute of sidestepping ....this is how Burgoyne gets thru traffic and then uses his acceleration to break into space and puts pressure on the opposition.

We use to have Macleod who was just the "best" thru traffic ......but since his removal to the HBF we just don't have someone with those attributes .....certainly Thompson, Reilly and Van Berlo don't posses this skill.

Douglas ..... a possibility???

But as good a season as Shirley has had ......I do think his spot will come under much scrutiny at the post season coaches review.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

be careful, Shirley is a protected species around here.
If you critisize him you get the predictable "you obviously know nothing about football"

I have always suspected there are some personal relationships that have influenced some POV's re Shirley.

Adelaide is asmall town after all .......but to be fair he has had a reasonably good season thus far

 

[Crow-mo]

No he's not a taggers a ...h...e ....and receives no recognition via the media or footy scribes to contradict that view.

when did that become the standard?

I must have missed that memo

 

[WaynesWorld19]

when did that become the standard?

I must have missed that memo

.....Weren't you on the mailing list

You'll see that I have been giving him a good run .......albeit not unreservedly

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Dal Santo 17 v Robs 16

People keep throwing up these statistics but I don't think that we are running Shirley (or van Berlo for that matter) up against the opposition's best midfielder for the duration of the game anymore. We seem to be rotating our midfielders through the tagging roles as well as the running/ball winning roles. There are periods where Shirley is matched up on the opposition's most influential midfielder. At other times van Berlo seems to fill this role and I have even observed Doughty and Goodwin having turns matched up against the likes of Dal Santo.

I think that the tactic of the full-time run with role went out the window after West Coast smashed us in the second half of last year's preliminary final. It makes it harder for us outsiders to accurately measure Shirley's performance. We used to be able to ask - how did his man go? Not that simple anymore.

Shirley's reading of the ball of hands at ruck contests is nothing short of brilliant. In the second quarter against St Kilda he was at his absolute best. He would have got four clearances himself and I thought I counted three times where he got the crucial centre clearance. We have to start asking ourselves though, how did we go during the second quarter? When Shirley is at his best and performing well does it mean that we play better? And when he is out of the team do we play worse?

I think Shirley (and Doughty for that matter) could get anywhere between 10-25 possessions without it having an major impact on the result of the game. Given that they both play 80+ minutes in our midfield rotation this places enormous, unfair pressure on the likes of Thompson, Goodwin and Edwards. Tyson's influence was shaded after quarter time on Friday and I think it highlights a real weakness that others (who aren't tagged or under any significant defensive pressure from the opposition at all) are unable to pick up the slack.

Do we have adequate replacements though? Admittedly we probably don't at the moment, although I do have high hopes for Douglas.

 

[- PC -]

I think Shirley (and Doughty for that matter) could get anywhere between 10-25 possessions without it having an major impact on the result of the game. .

Ok then lets look at Dal Santos.... he averages 21.5 and was kept to 17

Did Dal Santo have a major impact on the game?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Certainly not a major impact but did some good things in traffic and used the ball very well. Overall he did have a positive influence but you're right, we probably would have taken 17 possessions from Dal Santo before the game.

 

[smoovy]

What has his opponents got?

Dal Santo 17 v Robs 16

Rob is averaging 18.5 possessions a game this year. Im happy with that

Dal Santo averaging 21.5

I wish these threads would disappear

Just asking the question to see if anyone could explain his role. Obviously by your statement you are saying that he isn't supposed to be ball winner, but instead a tagger or negator.

I for one think when in form he is one of the best clearance players we have got. Great and reading the tap and getting the quick kick away. I only wish he had a little bit quicker hands.

The real judge is how he is performing he role set by the club. This will come out in the B & F. Does anyone know where he finished last year?

 

[- PC -]

The real judge is how he is performing he role set by the club. This will come out in the B & F. Does anyone know where he finished last year?

JFC

Top 10 last 3 years

 

[bus24]

We use to have Macleod who was just the "best" thru traffic ......but since his removal to the HBF we just don't have someone with those attributes .....certainly Thompson, Reilly and Van Berlo don't posses this skill.

Douglas ..... a possibility???

Yep. Will probably take time to develop to a level which is needed, but he has the attributes. His pace is good (not lightning, but good enough), but his agility is by far his best weapon.

 

[J-Train]

The Herald Sun has Shirley listed in the best players against the Saints smoovy so he mustn't have done too badly....

IMO he's having a great year and he has roughly equalled or improved his stats in every facet of the game

 

[CrowMagnum]

IMO he's having a great year and he has roughly equalled or improved his stats in every facet of the game

...except tagging.

 

[smoovy]

The Herald Sun has Shirley listed in the best players against the Saints smoovy so he mustn't have done too badly....

IMO he's having a great year and he has roughly equalled or improved his stats in every facet of the game

I agree I thought he was OK against the Saints. I don't have the stats but I'm guessing he would be right up there as far as our leading clearance winner goes. This is where he is good.

My post was sparked more or less by Chris MCDermott's comments after the game saying he has had a poor season. He was generally referring to him being a tagger, this is why I asked the question of what his role was.

At present there seems to be no real answer as to what exactly his role is other than that he is neither a tagger or a major ball winner, but instead sits somewhere in between.

I love his in and under work in the packs and getting the clearances as I mentioned. But the game isnt just about stoppages. I think he can start to be more damaging by pushing forward more. I think he can get under everyone's guard, given that he probably is one of the midfielders who the opposition would not pay too much attention to. We need more of midfielders consistently kicking goals.

That said if he has been told by the coach not to go forward, then there is not much he can do about that.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Interesting that Shirley was the only Crows player to be given the votes by the coaches on footy classified from the Saints game.

Must admit I am a bit surprised since I thought McLeod was by far our best player.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Interesting that Shirley was the only Crows player to be given the votes by the coaches on footy classified from the Saints game.

Must admit I am a bit surprised since I thought McLeod was by far our best player.

IMO it was Macleod and then daylight

 

[tribey]

be careful, Shirley is a protected species around here.

That's about the 8372738484th time you've said something like that in a Shirley-related thread.

Perhaps it's time to actually put forward an argument?

 

[tribey]

I have always suspected there are some personal relationships that have influenced some POV's re Shirley.

Adelaide is asmall town after all .......but to be fair he has had a reasonably good season thus far

Ah but of course.

Every player you don't rate who is defended by a poster or posters here must be related in some way - a schoolmate, a cousin, a sister's flatmate's boyfriend, etc.

Whereas every player you rate or defend in the course of football debate is because you're simply an unbiased judge with an astute football brain.

 

[johnnypanther]

JFC

Top 10 last 3 years

Perhaps that shows the lack of quality depth in our list

 

[Stiffy_18]

Perhaps that shows the lack of quality depth in our list

Results show otherwise!