Where's shane when you need him.
Ross "boring" Lyon
- Thread starter Memories
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Where's shane when you need him.
Ross Lyon - i was amazed when he was appointed and Harvey sacked - i didn't really know a lot about it him other than he has been at Sydney and Saints and Finals action for at least 7 years straight (that might come in handy over coaches who have played in 1 or 2 premierships but never coached deep into Sept).
All teams play the boring flooding press style - the ones at the top do it best - I note we are in the middle so obviously not the best at it nor the most boring.
He seems to bring clear structure - A game plan that is solid - easy to determine whether players are following and a successful one based on his winning %. He is far better at passing on his messages to ALL - doesn't take any bullshit from the media. Doesn't play underdone players. doesn't rate players who have played less than 50 games as being "superstars" - eg Barlow, Fyfe, Morrabito and so will get the best out of these types and not let the hype suck him in to playing them if they are not 100% fit - i like these traits and am a bit sick and tired of the boring tag TBH as i don't thnk its warranted. If we kicked half of those points no one would be even say it - blame the players who can't convert, or stick to the game plan, not the coach
All teams play the boring flooding press style - the ones at the top do it best - I note we are in the middle so obviously not the best at it nor the most boring.
He seems to bring clear structure - A game plan that is solid - easy to determine whether players are following and a successful one based on his winning %. He is far better at passing on his messages to ALL - doesn't take any bullshit from the media. Doesn't play underdone players. doesn't rate players who have played less than 50 games as being "superstars" - eg Barlow, Fyfe, Morrabito and so will get the best out of these types and not let the hype suck him in to playing them if they are not 100% fit - i like these traits and am a bit sick and tired of the boring tag TBH as i don't thnk its warranted. If we kicked half of those points no one would be even say it - blame the players who can't convert, or stick to the game plan, not the coach
aussieviking
Club Legend
Hear Hear well said
The players were pathetic on Saturday. No intensity, missed tackles, contested ball gets useless.
I am beginning to wonder about our leadership group.They seem to go missing in the big games. Pav and Sandi are good players but are they good leaders? I am beginning to think they are not
It is easy to dismiss Lyon's boring gameplan if it delivers success ... but one thing which is a real concern is whether he can get the playing group on board long-term. They have a history of being flakey and weak, and if they don't like his style, then I struggle to see us breaking out of mediocrity.
The players have shown their propensity over the years to take the easy way out, and I think they would rather play "enjoyable" football and be mediocre, than put in the hard yards to play "Lyon football" and win. I don't really think it truly hurts the players when they lose to a top side like Hawthorn.
You would hear lines like "Saints footy" from Riewoldt ... sounded stupid, but they at least seemed to embrace Lyon's game plan during their good run. They might be relieved to have more freedom now ... but at their peak, their discipline and willingness to do what Lyon said was second to none. I fear our players are incapable of that sheer amount of hard work and discipline that is required, especially for a gameplan such as Lyon's which is ultra defensive.
The players have shown their propensity over the years to take the easy way out, and I think they would rather play "enjoyable" football and be mediocre, than put in the hard yards to play "Lyon football" and win. I don't really think it truly hurts the players when they lose to a top side like Hawthorn.
You would hear lines like "Saints footy" from Riewoldt ... sounded stupid, but they at least seemed to embrace Lyon's game plan during their good run. They might be relieved to have more freedom now ... but at their peak, their discipline and willingness to do what Lyon said was second to none. I fear our players are incapable of that sheer amount of hard work and discipline that is required, especially for a gameplan such as Lyon's which is ultra defensive.
gsmiths_s
Team Captain
Didn't you kick the first 5 against Geelong?
Nothing
Norm Smith Medallist
- Jul 30, 2009
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Every game was an exaggeration, just. We have won 1 first quarter, that being the one against Geelong. But that kind of proves my point. Everyone was happy with the game style against Geelong even some of the Taliban thought it was a good first game by Ross the Devil. Now it's the only game where 1 of Ross' game plans was able to be rolled out early in the game.
I believe we have at least 2 very distinct plans (I'm sure there are a lot more). The dour defensive game plan when the opposition get a run on and the attacking, open, spread wide and fast breaking which has been seen in second halves (and at other times).
I'm enjoying the tactical side of Freo at the moment - the changes that Ross is implementing during the game are well-timed and seem to be about getting Freo to remain competitve for longer. It is frustrating though, when you see our Muppets fail to lay tackles, hit targets 15m away, take chest marks, tap to advantage, etc. That is not part of anyone's game plan (well maybe Crazy Vossy's) and should be where we focus, not one of the game plans that Ross is employing in 120 minutes fo football.
A couple of hears ago when we were travelling like crapola there was talk of roos coming to the eagles. I was horrified and didnt want that boring game plan to watch week in week out.
I used to watch dockers games almost as religiously as eagles games...... But i just cant be bothered any more.
Id love to know what was so wrong with your club that mark harvey needed the flick???? You had the worst injuries ive seen a club have in years. How the hell was that harveys fault????
I used to watch dockers games almost as religiously as eagles games...... But i just cant be bothered any more.
Id love to know what was so wrong with your club that mark harvey needed the flick???? You had the worst injuries ive seen a club have in years. How the hell was that harveys fault????
sportsmaniac89
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Wrong question to ask!
We spent a lot of the summer arguing about the Harvey sacking and there's no point dredging up past history
Wrong question to ask!
We spent a lot of the summer arguing about the Harvey sacking and there's no point dredging up past history
Agree. I don't much like the game plan but I certainly concede he probably knows better than me. I also don't think the players are playing it the way he is asking them to.
Personally, I feel a lot more comfortable knowing he is going to be our coach for the next five years then I would if it was going to be Harvey.
I've got no problems with the game plan. I always enjoyed Sydney games - I just saw it as good tough accountable football. If the opposition has the ball, surely you should defend as strongly as you can?
When we are as bad in the middle as we were against Hawthorn (and we were bloody awful) then the ball is going to go deep into our backline and we are going to have to defend. Grimly.
Once we start getting first use of the footy (over to you Messrs Stone and Sumich) then we'll see some faster more attacking footy.
Attack wins you games, but defence wins you championships.
And as Fremantle fans, I don't think we have the luxury to complain about the spectacle or the quality of our wins... Any win is a quality win for us...
When we are as bad in the middle as we were against Hawthorn (and we were bloody awful) then the ball is going to go deep into our backline and we are going to have to defend. Grimly.
Once we start getting first use of the footy (over to you Messrs Stone and Sumich) then we'll see some faster more attacking footy.
Attack wins you games, but defence wins you championships.
And as Fremantle fans, I don't think we have the luxury to complain about the spectacle or the quality of our wins... Any win is a quality win for us...
I like watching Sydney as well. I enjoy watching hard, tough accountable footy. Just don't think Freo play it well. Sydney also don't have the appalling skills and poor decision-making that Freo have, which makes it awful (and embarrassing) to watch. Still think if we carry through with this game plan they will need to change some of the playing personnel.
Nothing
Norm Smith Medallist
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You ask Sydney fans and they'll disagree on the skills. They have as many players who have brian fades as Freo, the difference is that they have been playing the game plan for longer.
Yeah that did cross my mind. It is a radical shift apart from the one year of hard forward defensive pressure under Harvey. If you can believe Barlow and Mundy, the players want to play this way so that's a good start.
wouldyoulikesome
Debutant
Im not to sure if the bold above it correct, the Swannies game style suits the smaller grounds.
Our players in the last decade have never been really skillful, but have always had a red hot dig at the footy, being on the small ground it has been easier to close space and restrict opposition from scoring..
We have struggled to win games at ANZ and the MCG over the last decade, when i look at Freo do they really want to play shutdown football, especially on that huge paddock at Subiaco oval, Its possible that the good teams are going to expose Freo on the big grounds, like the Swannies have been exposed before..Therefore taking away Freo's home ground advantage..
Only time will tell though, we did manage to win the won game that counted in 2005..
Goodluck with the game plan.
That's my question. But Ross insists that St Kilda performed very well at Subi when they came here. Ultimately, we need a game plan that can transfer to any ground especially the MCG, so that will be the aim. The Freo guys played hard footy against Geelong and ran hard with the footy when we got it. We have moved away from that recently, because in truth we have a lot of guys who are not hard runners (not consistently anyway) and they tend to drop off week-from-week. The game-plan we played against Geelong and the second half against Sydney with better playing personnel, may work. Here's hoping anyway.
- Thread starter
- #93
Stick Sandilands in the forward 50 with Ballas at his feet. If he can't mark it, tap it to Ballas. You're not going to lose much run by keeping 2 guys in the forward 50. But Ross insists on playing a full court press.
I am agreeing with Memories. There is something strange going on. Sandi is one of the best contested marks in the game. The defenders will have to chop his arms or climb up him to spoil (he might even get a free kick?). Otherwise he can put the ball to Ballas advantage. We can really stretch defences like this. It makes the floating ball inside 50 a deadly weapon instead of a waste.
Sounds like the Sandi more forward thing will happen as it looks like Griffen will be coming into the side. Balla however, will continue to play in the midfield with time up forward.
Memories has a point.
I've seriously had enough of this s**t.
Later lads, I'm off to smash something.
I've seriously had enough of this s**t.
Later lads, I'm off to smash something.
Can someone in the know tell me what the players thought of Harvey? and what they think of Lyons now?
Harvey was a much better fit for the Dockers. The only thing I didn't like was that injured players were brought back too soon.
It seems to me that Harvey had a good rapport with the players and that Harvey took the blame for an injury plagued season. Anyway the circumstances under which he was axed prove that it was the wrong thing to do. Harvey mightn't have gotten a premiership out of them but they would be more competetive than now and higher up the eight. Look at Harvey's record of Derbies against West Coast!
You seem to be an expert on fremantle footy yet you live inSydney & support Richmond. the 1st half was fantastic then freo fell away. It has taken Hardwik afew years & early draft picks & tigers have still won jack.It will take Ross time.
Not to rain on your parade but i have never rated Lyon. His game plan is ugly to watch at best & when he took over St Kilda they were a incredibly talented side. Harvey,Hayes, Riewoldt, Kosi, Goddard, Ball, Milne, Dal Santo, Montanga....etc etc. Seriously who couldn't do something with that squad. Hell even Grant Thomas took them to a prelim and wasn't considered a good coach. He drove the list into the ground picking up recycled players year after year without topping up with young talent. The only two good youngsters in my opinion that came to the club during his reign were armitage and Mcevoy. You guys have some seriously good young talent coming through with the likes of Fyfe, Morabito, Hill and co and i'd hate to see him nullify what appears to be some really good attacking, exciting youngsters. It's only early days and for the state of your club and you the supporters i hope he turns out to be a good coach for you guys but i don't think he was the answer. Good luck for the rest of the year. (except the second derby that is)
P.S Looking forward to seeing Morabito running around in a few weeks. Gonna be a gun.
P.S Looking forward to seeing Morabito running around in a few weeks. Gonna be a gun.
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- #100
Lyon isn't a dumb man though, and he is clearly annoyed with the players. The problem I see is this guy hasn't even indicated a cultural problem at the club with some of our core players.
He talks about Pavlich dropping 2kg of fat like it's a massive achievement and commitment to the coach. Yeah no, I can lose 2kg of fat in 4 days of effort. How about Pavlich, Mundy and Sandilands drop some of their off field commitments and actually renegotiate the huge contracts they are on to be purely performance based. Show how much you love the club guys because you are putting in rubbish for our 3 highest paid players. I've seen under 9s players that show more effort than these 3.
He talks about Pavlich dropping 2kg of fat like it's a massive achievement and commitment to the coach. Yeah no, I can lose 2kg of fat in 4 days of effort. How about Pavlich, Mundy and Sandilands drop some of their off field commitments and actually renegotiate the huge contracts they are on to be purely performance based. Show how much you love the club guys because you are putting in rubbish for our 3 highest paid players. I've seen under 9s players that show more effort than these 3.
