Ross Lyon - Panic Station Time!

[Red Gum]

Re: When Lyon's contract expires at the end of 2009.....

Bring Thomas back? That's proactive! That's forward-thinking! We'll get a bloke who couldn't get us there a few years ago and see if his time spent in the media has given him what he needed to take us the whole way this time.

Nexus Helen (and others) - worst idea ever

 

[ChrisL#12]

Ross is pathetic st kilda can only win by under 10 points

 

[Fred]

What Lyon should do is say to the players "You're running things against the Dees. Get together and decide how you want to play the game, select the team and go do it".

Lyon and the rest of the coaches can sit where they like and be spectators.
I'd like to see the players play their natural game without having to think what gameplan is required for each situation.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Team of 04-05 would have beaten the Dees by 20 goals.

We'll win by about 3 goals now.

 

[Sainters97]

The heat is well and truly on Ross Lyon as it should be... As pointed out earlier in this thread Ross was appointed by the old administration and it won't be long before he is given his marching orders.. The saints play the 'Sydney' game style which may work for Sydney however not the saints.. The defencive style needs to have skilled/disciplined players to be able to adopt it and unfortunately the saints lack 10 or so of these players. You only have to look at other clubs who currently have weaker lists than the saints, ie Adelaide, Richmond, Collingwood, North Melbourne, Bulldogs however they are well and truly outdoing the sainters in skill, player development, understanding their role in the team etc etc and the coach must take full responsibility for not being able to get this through to the players and/or selecting players who arn't able to carry out his instructions.. Get rid of Ross Lyon and bring in a coach who is on the same wavelength as they players and for christ sake bring play Armitiage for the reminder of the year to give him needed time to develop.. Damien Hardwick gets my vote for new coach and soon.

 

[35Harvs]

You guys are seriously suggesting to sack the coach???

Sure, if his instructions were to, not tackle, don't chase, don't apply ANY defensive pressure in our foward 50, kick the ball short to the fwd 50, let their midfield run it out of the center without any pressure - I'm all for sacking him.

I strongly doubt that any of those instructions were made.

 

[HoldenMCaulfield]

You guys are seriously suggesting to sack the coach???

Sure, if his instructions were to, not tackle, don't chase, don't apply ANY defensive pressure in our foward 50, kick the ball short to the fwd 50, let their midfield run it out of the center without any pressure - I'm all for sacking him.

I strongly doubt that any of those instructions were made.

Were Lyon's instructions to not tackle, not chase, not apply any defensive pressure in our forward 50, to kick the ball short to the fwd 50, let their midfield run it out of the center without any pressure ?

No - I certainly hope they weren't !

Did the players tackle, chase, apply for defensive pressure in our forward 50, kick the ball short to the fwd 50, let their midfield run it out of the center without any pressure ?

No, the majority of our players didn't !

Is Lyon training the players to not tackle, not chase, not apply any defensive pressure in our forward 50, to kick the ball short to the fwd 50, let their midfield run it out of the center without any pressure ?

No - I certainly hope he doesn't !

Does Lyon reach his players ?

Apparently not !

Do the players appear motivated and willing to provide all they got in order to win ?

No - with the exception of a few (in particular Harvey, Hayes, Ball, Hudghton) they don't !

Is Lyon as the coach responsible to ensure that the players do what he wants them to do and to motivate the players ?

Yes - that's one of the more important aspects of his job !

Did it help to drop Armitage (one of the best tacklers) and then compain that the team isn't hard enough ?

No - actually it makes Lyon look a bit silly...

Should Lyon really be given another 13 weeks until he (sic) will assess as he said in the press conference after the Brisbane game ?

Well, he has been in charge for 1 1/2 years and while the team lacked tactical direction under GT (they did what he wanted them to do, he just sometimes didn't know what to do himself), they certainly were motivated !

 

[Squizz]

But the thing I don't get is why the players can't get themselves up for a game.

You've got Harvey, Ball, Hayes and Riewoldt giving it everything. Don't they look at the example and say "yep, that's how I want to play too".

Is there anything really wrong with the team picked (Armo aside)?

Do they think they can play finals by coasting?

Do they get a buzz out of losing?

I know confidence is an important factor, but the players must take some accountability.

Don't get me wrong, I have never been a fan of Ross Lyon. But to turn on the coach generally isn't the go. Yes, he's made some blues and should be accountable for that. But the players are getting good dollars to play like that.

 

[HoldenMCaulfield]

Don't get me wrong, I have never been a fan of Ross Lyon. But to turn on the coach generally isn't the go. Yes, he's made some blues and should be accountable for that. But the players are getting good dollars to play like that.

I agree - but it is up to Lyon to make them want to win games give it all as Harvey, Hayes, Ball and a few others do.

That is why I said in another thread that I would not be surprised if one of the established players is dropped this week. Lyon has to change things and if some players don't listen to him, he should not play them.

But if he doesn't manage to force his message into the players heads, he has failed. He cannot hide behind his players.

 

[bubblegoose]

But the thing I don't get is why the players can't get themselves up for a game.

You've got Harvey, Ball, Hayes and Riewoldt giving it everything. Don't they look at the example and say "yep, that's how I want to play too".

Is there anything really wrong with the team picked (Armo aside)?

Do they think they can play finals by coasting?

Do they get a buzz out of losing?

I know confidence is an important factor, but the players must take some accountability.

Don't get me wrong, I have never been a fan of Ross Lyon. But to turn on the coach generally isn't the go. Yes, he's made some blues and should be accountable for that. But the players are getting good dollars to play like that.

Agree

I agree - but it is up to Lyon to make them want to win games give it all as Harvey, Hayes, Ball and a few others do.

That is why I said in another thread that I would not be surprised if one of the established players is dropped this week. Lyon has to change things and if some players don't listen to him, he should not play them.

But if he doesn't manage to force his message into the players heads, he has failed. He cannot hide behind his players.

Agree

 

[Axcellence]

You guys are seriously suggesting to sack the coach???

Sure, if his instructions were to, not tackle, don't chase, don't apply ANY defensive pressure in our foward 50, kick the ball short to the fwd 50, let their midfield run it out of the center without any pressure - I'm all for sacking him.

I strongly doubt that any of those instructions were made.

I don't think ANY COACH gives those instructions.

But let's say, if the instruction is to keep it in your hands instead of bombing it.. resulting in getting tackled.... keeping to your man or to defensive 50, so that opposition, just runs it out of saints defensive 50 and then wheel back without any pressure to attack the 50....

You'd have to consider that?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I don't know what the game plan is supposed to be. But I know that with a very similar back line including perceived weaker players like Fish and Blake we were getting fantastic rebound out of the back line. ( A fit Goose helped but it also happened without him ). How frustrated are these guys at the moment playing in such an ineffective manner. I think the team's morale must be shot. During GT's last year I can remember some pretty depleted teams. They lost a lot but at least seemed to be trying hard.

 

[35Harvs]

But the thing I don't get is why the players can't get themselves up for a game.

You've got Harvey, Ball, Hayes and Riewoldt giving it everything. Don't they look at the example and say "yep, that's how I want to play too".

Is there anything really wrong with the team picked (Armo aside)?

Do they think they can play finals by coasting?

Do they get a buzz out of losing?

I know confidence is an important factor, but the players must take some accountability.

Don't get me wrong, I have never been a fan of Ross Lyon. But to turn on the coach generally isn't the go. Yes, he's made some blues and should be accountable for that. But the players are getting good dollars to play like that.

Yep, there are examples on the field of what the accepted level of intensity should be at the saints. Some players are just not applying that, and I think that is a poor reflection of them. Not only Ross Lyon.

the dropping of Armitage, should be explained.

I don't think ANY COACH gives those instructions.

But let's say, if the instruction is to keep it in your hands instead of bombing it.. resulting in getting tackled.... keeping to your man or to defensive 50, so that opposition, just runs it out of saints defensive 50 and then wheel back without any pressure to attack the 50....

You'd have to consider that?

What if the instruction is, don't bomb it long - wait for someone to run & create space -(and no one does).

Still the instruction would NEVER be, don't bomb it & let yourself get tackled.

I'm not saying he is not to blame, I queried RL on the weekend due to the lack of fwd 50 pressure, the lions were running out of their defence with no pressure until the center, I am really hoping that is not an instruction from the coach.

 

[olmate]

Yep, there are examples on the field of what the accepted level of intensity should be at the saints. Some players are just not applying that, and I think that is a poor reflection of them. Not only Ross Lyon.

the dropping of Armitage, should be explained.



What if the instruction is, don't bomb it long - wait for someone to run & create space -(and no one does).

Still the instruction would NEVER be, don't bomb it & let yourself get tackled.

I'm not saying he is not to blame, I queried RL on the weekend due to the lack of fwd 50 pressure, the lions were running out of their defence with no pressure until the center, I am really hoping that is not an instruction from the coach.

and they had J Brown half a kick away !

 

[Fred]

I agree - but it is up to Lyon to make them want to win games give it all as Harvey, Hayes, Ball and a few others do.

No it's not. If a professional AFL footballer needs the coach to make them want to win games, there's something very wrong.

 

[NeXus_Helen]

No it's not. If a professional AFL footballer needs the coach to make them want to win games, there's something very wrong.

It's not that Fred.

Imagine if your manager at work who has been fantastic to you over the last 5 years was all of a sudden sacked for no apparent reason. You would be pissed off wouldn't you. This would effect your future performance. You would not look forward to going to work. Everything would be a huge effort. You wouldn't enjoy the place anymore.

That is what has happened to the players and that is why we are not going to make the top 8.

What makes it even worse is that Lyon's game plan is the worst in the comp. Our team was the most attacking side and he has tried to make them into Sydney. The palyers were already pissed off with GT's sacking but then they had to change their game plan as well. No wonder they have no idea what to do.

In closing, I don't really blame Ross Lyon. I don't think he is a good coach but I don't blame him. The ar$hole that has decimated our club is BUTTHEAD. His decision to sack GT has ruined us and it will be years before we are up there again.

 

[bubblegoose]

Maybe we should get back one of our previous successful coaches, is there anyone you could recommend Helen?

 

[Squizz]

I hear Alan Killigrew isn't doing much these days.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Allan Jeans.

 

[Darkhour]

Re: Gameplan, Coach, Injuries or Players?

can someone seriously ban nexus helen or give it free tickets to the Antarctic...

the players need to be accountable, stand up and show how much they will bleed for each other and the club... thats all..

Lyon has said some players heads are on the chopping block after being passengers for too long.. bring players that might not be as talented but will bust their guts for their team mates and then progress from there.

you need a mix of inconsistent but dangerous players that can score and be damaging but get rid of the players who don't bust themselves trying, are not dangerous and are inconsistent. when the majority ogf players in the team are playing with passion and commitment, those dangerous players are your match winners ie. Milne vs Richmond.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Re: Gameplan, Coach, Injuries or Players?

I don't want to take any sides in a feud here but I really cannot see the problem with NH's last post. It is a valid opinion about what might be going wrong with the club. I know there have been problems before but I don't think that every post should be met by a call for banishment.

 

[bubblegoose]

Re: Gameplan, Coach, Injuries or Players?

Allan Jeans.

bingo!

Lyon has said some players heads are on the chopping block after being passengers for too long.. bring players that might not be as talented but will bust their guts for their team mates and then progress from there.

I reckon thats what we need, some actual axe swinging though - not just the threat of it.

 

[Squizz]

Re: When Lyon's contract expires at the end of 2009.....

Grant Thomas should be re-instated. This is the only chance we have of saving our club.

what about for this *********** (I'll re-state it as "very ordinary post")?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Re: When Lyon's contract expires at the end of 2009.....

what about for this *********** (I'll re-state it as "very ordinary post")?

No I think that was actually a Wailing piece of ****.
No argument.

 

[timos]

Re: Gameplan, Coach, Injuries or Players?

can someone seriously ban nexus helen or give it free tickets to the Antarctic...

the players need to be accountable, stand up and show how much they will bleed for each other and the club... thats all..

Lyon has said some players heads are on the chopping block after being passengers for too long.. bring players that might not be as talented but will bust their guts for their team mates and then progress from there.

you need a mix of inconsistent but dangerous players that can score and be damaging but get rid of the players who don't bust themselves trying, are not dangerous and are inconsistent. when the majority ogf players in the team are playing with passion and commitment, those dangerous players are your match winners ie. Milne vs Richmond.

Nexus is 100% absolutely SPOT ON the mark. Most sensible post I have read here for a long time.