Injury Russell your feathers - discuss all things high performance; injury lists, Marvel surface, curse from the gods and Andrew Russell

[BringFevBack2021]

Yeah, I'm not sure about that. Nothing wrong with everything you have written in isolation but using that logic you could explain away almost anything.

Going by what's been posted on this forum the strength and conditioning team have no accountability if it's a contact injury. Thats just luck. So only soft tissue injuries. But not if it's a soft tissue injury to a player that has a history, and not if its a quick player because it increases the risk, and not if it's a young player because that just happens. I'm not sure what type of injuries that leaves us with?

All that matters from my point of view is the theme. Individual instances can always be explained away. The theme is year after year, we have one of the worst injury lists in the comp. Big problem, particularly when you factor in, we are in our window. It will cost us a shot at a flag if we don't come good.

Is it fitness staff, list management, gameplan, training grounds or a combination? Not sure. It's hard to know from the outside. Whatever it is something needs to change, and we need to go hard at it. Whether that means we make tough calls on fitness staff, certain injury prone players or both.

Our players being fit at the end of the year like last year doesn't absolve the problem either. You need to put yourself in a good position on the ladder in order to win a flag and you can't do that without a reasonably fit list throughout the year. Coming from way back like last year is far from ideal.

You also realise that players have to do the work too, right?

I can’t name the club my friend worked for last year, but he told me that he was absolutely certain that one of their biggest stars did nothing over the off season. Two of their kids came back heavier, slower and weaker. The AFLPA has strict rules in place that govern what oversight the club has of players in the off season.

Whose to say McGovern for example didn’t follow the regime as he reported?

Additionally, there are studies that have concluded that over use and non-contact injuries occur at a much higher rate for fasted athletes during Ramadan. I wonder at what point athletes are no longer compromised post-fast? A day, a week, a month?

 

[Opium]

Worst injury list in the comp when you factor in the games the recently injured players will be missing. Either way the current regime isn't working and change is needed.

 

[BlueJet]

A few players pushing 30 do hammies & the world is suddenly burning.
IMO our present issues are as much a LM issue as it is high performance.
The desire to recruit & retain players that are consistently unavailable is problematic.

 

[DangerousD]

Scrutiny needs to be placed on the club for the size of the injury list and i hope there are people in positions of power who are asking for an explanation.

How much is at the hands of the high performance team, how much at the list management team and how much at the coaching team?

They all play a role, Russell can’t work wonders with players who can’t withstand the rigours of football.

Austin and co need to take some heat here, its hard to complain that we have a long injury list, when a lot of the names on it, have been on it for up to 9 years.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

We moved on SOS, Austin didn’t recruit the perennially injured or players that didn’t look like getting a game so far


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[Opium]

A few players pushing 30 do hammies & the world is suddenly burning.
IMO our present issues are as much a LM issue as it is high performance.
The desire to recruit & retain players that are consistently unavailable is problematic.

6 players with soft tissue injuries isn't a few after 6 rounds not including Weitering or the management of Walsh.

 

[BlueJet]

6 players with soft tissue injuries isn't a few after 6 rounds?

I was obviously speaking in general to the reaction after the weekends injuries.
In response to your overreaction though, I'd rather our injury list to Richmond’s.

 

[Coona Blues]

A few players pushing 30 do hammies & the world is suddenly burning.
IMO our present issues are as much a LM issue as it is high performance.
The desire to recruit & retain players that are consistently unavailable is problematic.

Absolutely. List Management, High Performance and Coaching to be precise.

We have players physically cooked after a handful of games. Coaching and AFL scheduling play a significant part, as does the Players’ Association negotiating more off season down time. We have plenty of self starters, some who perhaps go too hard. Then we have the perennial group who don’t do more conditioning than they have to. No coincidence that these unavailabilities are at the start of the season. Martin know in a conditioning block in the season proper. If he did the work pre season, it would be far less likely to break down when the whips start to crack, and definitely would not need a six week catch up conditioning block to try to ensure no recurrence.

Marchy is “an athlete” but I still have his “drink tickets” comment from when he was traded ringing in my ears. Does he work hard enough in preparation? I would love to know the answer. Have previously considered him as just bloody unlucky, but could it be he is in the group of lesser prepared types?

Big Durds is great back up, if he can stay on the park. Lewy Young is a decent player, but not gelling in our combination and structures. If we aren’t prepared to vary those structures, he would be good trade collateral, but with Nigel unsound, he is essential to keep. Would thrive in the right environment, but does not coexist with Weiters on exposed output.

We moved on SOS, Austin didn’t recruit the perennially injured or players that didn’t look like getting a game so far


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We were incredibly tight for list spots at the end of last year, and will be even more so at the end of this year. During the year, we gave McGovern an extension for not one, but two years, based on his output in a contract year. Granted, that was probably at the behest of Voss. A single year with triggers would have been far more logical.

Fantasia has a significant injury history, and again was given two years, rather than one plus one. Granted it was likely minimum chips plus match payments, but he is no better than our other smalls on exposed form. We don’t have list spots to throw away. Again almost certainly, Voss was the prime mover. Didn’t MV come unstuck in his first coaching foray due to involving himself in list management for the NOW.

 

[Opium]

I was obviously speaking in general to the reaction after the weekends injuries.
In response to your overreaction though, I'd rather our injury list to Richmond’s.

Richmond aren't in premiership contention this year. They have three premierships to their name and an ageing list. One bad year.

The Blues have averaged 9.4 injuries listed per week since the start of 2023.

Add the mismanagement of Walsh in 2022 and the heavy preseason loads the players were put through.

At what point do you start asking for change?

 

[BigFrizz36]

Richmond aren't in premiership contention this year. They have three premierships to their name and an ageing list. One bad year.

The Blues have averaged 9.4 injuries listed per week since the start of 2023.

Add the mismanagement of Walsh in 2022 and the heavy preseason loads the players were put through.

At what point do you start asking for change?

Hopefully, a significant period of time after the "sky is falling" gang of which you appear to be close to the head of the queue.

And even then it would only be after a thorough investigation of all circumstances, players, recruiting load management etc.

As for your claims of a mismanagement, pre-season loads etc they are just an omnishambles of squawking about things that in reality you (like me) have no inside knowledge.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Just so we’re also aware, the High Performance team also don’t always get what they want.

My friend prescribed a set chronic running load to his players, the coach told him he was wrong and prescribed a higher load - lo and behold, soft tissues galore.

Way too simplistic to call for the head of one person in a footy department.

 

[james Dean]

Why the hell are some people here so defensive about this guy?

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Why the hell are some people here so defensive about this guy?

Because people don’t understand how footy departments work

 

[BlueJet]

Why the hell are some people here so defensive about this guy?

I don't believe anyone is overly defensive, it's more that some are seeking to hold him to account for injuries occurring, often to injury-prone players..
Nobody celebrates when we have a half-decent squad available but they sure as s**t bleat when we sustain injuries.

 

[Kruezing]

Just so we’re also aware, the High Performance team also don’t always get what they want.

My friend prescribed a set chronic running load to his players, the coach told him he was wrong and prescribed a higher load - lo and behold, soft tissues galore.

Way too simplistic to call for the head of one person in a footy department.

I’m pretty sure it’s Russell calling for the higher loads … and this is from a previous employee of the club … I ignored it at the time given possible bitterness clouding the comments … however it’s yet to proven wrong given the long list of soft tissue injuries already this early in the season.

 

[BlueJet]

Richmond aren't in premiership contention this year. They have three premierships to their name and an ageing list. One bad year.

The Blues have averaged 9.4 injuries listed per week since the start of 2023.

Add the mismanagement of Walsh in 2022 and the heavy preseason loads the players were put through.

At what point do you start asking for change?

Premiership contention is irrelevant to their injury list, no doubt they'd rather have Hopper, Prestia, Lynch, Gibcus, etc available regardless of where they're at in terms of challenging. (Attempt at shifting the goalposts is noted though)

Carrying habitually unavailable players will do that - DC, Marchbank & Martin alone make up a third of that tally.

Heavy preseason loads aren't inherently a bad thing, soft tissue injuries are often a result of being underprepared though.

Given the club consistently reviews its practices, I'd suggest at a point when those responsible are deemed to be ineffective.

Frankly, I feel you've formed an emotive position on this issue.

 

[Osc1]

We need to call Mr Wolf. There’s something not right and it needs cleaning up.

 

[Monty1978]

I think it’s a bit of both… we know we have injury prone players before Russell and now with Russell so he can’t work miracles but by the sounds of it the did a load of work before the bye from all reports so maybe Russell probably should have eased up a little … seems odd lots of guys get injured in rehab more then playing

 

[Arr0w]

I’m pretty sure it’s Russell calling for the higher loads … and this is from a previous employee of the club … I ignored it at the time given possible bitterness clouding the comments … however it’s yet to proven wrong given the long list of soft tissue injuries already this early in the season.

It wasn't Russell making that decision preseason of the 2022

 

[Soapy V]

I don’t know the answer

Is it training and preparation?
Is it the players?
Is it lack of professionalism?
Is it the surface at Marvel?
Is it a poor high performance team?

Whatever it is it needs to be fixed and a list cannot carrying too many players that struggle to play most weeks no matter how good they may be

 

[Kruezing]

It wasn't Russell making that decision preseason of the 2022

Assuming that’s correct since then ?

 

[Arr0w]

Assuming that’s correct since then ?

Total club mandate that the players weren't fit enough

 

[Opium]

It wasn't Russell making that decision preseason of the 2022

We're in 2024. Clearly the higher training loads have taken a toll. Motlop another reoccurring hammy just like Martin. Never ends.

 

[Opium]

I think it’s a bit of both… we know we have injury prone players before Russell and now with Russell so he can’t work miracles but by the sounds of it the did a load of work before the bye from all reports so maybe Russell probably should have eased up a little … seems odd lots of guys get injured in rehab more then playing

The biggest concern outside of Martin and Saad is the hamstrings/soft tissue injuries have occurred at training.

 

[slashin_velvet]

I don't believe anyone is overly defensive, it's more that some are seeking to hold him to account for injuries occurring, often to injury-prone players..
Nobody celebrates when we have a half-decent squad available but they sure as s**t bleat when we sustain injuries.

No-one champions a pilot for landing a plane, but crash one and you'll find yourselves in the headlines.

Its nothing but fair to ask questions on soft-tissue injury management - if we have support to show that the coaches are calling the shots, when the high performance team says otherwise, then a full football ops review is in order.

Adam Cerra	Hamstring	Low-grade hamstring strain. Availability: 1-2 weeks. (Update: 16 April)
David Cuningham	Calf	Unavailable for selection this week. Will be further assessed next week. (Update: 3 April)
Jack Martin	Hamstring	Low-grade hamstring last week. Will enter a conditioning block. Availability: 5-6 weeks. (Update: 3 April)
Mitch McGovern	Hamstring	Low-grade hamstring strain. Availability: 1-2 weeks. (Update: 16 April)
Jesse Motlop	Hamstring	Suffered a further hamstring injury in recent days. Availability: 4-5 weeks. (Update: 16 April)
Adam Saad	Hamstring	Medium-grade hamstring strain. Availability: 6 weeks. (Update: 16 April)