RWC - Australia vs Ireland

[Lions1024]

Wow. The stupendous decision of not bringing a backup 7 has pretty much cost us a shot at the World Cup. We lost at the breakdown. We got absolutely dominated, with a little help from the ref.

McCalman is just a spud. Like Richard Brown and John Roe, he's got absolutely no impact at the breakdown, in defence or attack. Sure he works hard but even when he makes a tackle, the man is, more often than not, already over the gain line. A bewildering decision. You have to worry about him, he's 192cm and weighs about 105-7kg yet plays as if he's 85 kg. He shouldn't be in the squad, let alone the team.

Without Ioane we can't have a McCabe/ Faingaa centre pairing. They lack any penetration. If you doubt Ioane's impact, watch the New Zealand game then watch this game. Ioane is the one back that consistently gets us on the front foot with slow ball. As I said before, we're screwed without him. Drew Mitchell surely has to come into the squad. Ben Tapaui should've been selected in the squad, would fix all our midfield problems.

I didn't think our scrum was all that bad. Bryce Lawrence gave some really bad penalties at scrum time.

The Irish aren't all that good and won't make it past the quarter finals if they come up against Wales. They seem to play 1 good game in a year, this was obviously the game. I don't really rate our chances against South Africa or New Zealand, don't think we'll beat either of them.

 

[Tassie19Cairns20]

Anyway -you get the easy side of the draw now with SA and NZ

Don't be so sure. The Boks would rather play you guys than us in the quarterfinals, so I wouldn't be surprised if they "rested" their key players for the final group match vs. Samoa. Samoa finishes 1st in Group D and plays us in the 1st round, while you guys are stuck playing South Africa.

 

[SandyToes]

I thought the Wallabies might have been a chance this year, but no matter, they'll be better next time around
On another note, if you watched the AFL match or NRL match last night and compared it with Bryce Lawrence blowing penalties for 16 fat guys pushing each other incorrectly at a scrum and no tries in the match, you might get some indication why Rugby is a second tier sport here.

 

[Caesar]

Nothing wrong with the match. A lot of people don't appreciate the strategy and nuance of code, that's all.

I've never understood the Australian obsession with running rugby. It's attractive but there's more to the game than that.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

I'm not sure the forward pack played that bad, to be honest. They're just not very good.

Any team with strength tends to push us around in the scrum and dominate us at the breakdown. We had exactly the same problems in the Tri Nations and the Super 15, but they were masked by some great play by the backs and some clutch performances at key times.

We could learn a lot from these northern hemisphere teams.

agree a lot with this.

Backline play has always come naturally to australian sides, mainly due to players growing up in dry conditions which enables running rugby at schoolboy level.

However the scrum has been a problem ever since 2002 and for the life of me i cannot understand how it still has not improved in all that time (even more so considering how easily sheridan and co monstered us in 07 you'd think it would be a priority). It's a real indictment on coaching in Australia. It amazed me how the backrow were playing loosely at the scrum, even when ireland were packing in tight and continuing to push.

Our scrum is a lot better than it used to be. We were not destroyed in the Super 15 or Tri-Nations. Lawrence had no idea when it came to scrum penalties. The issue is that refs have a preconceived idea that we have a s**t scrum and so blame us if it collapses.

Wow. The stupendous decision of not bringing a backup 7 has pretty much cost us a shot at the World Cup. We lost at the breakdown. We got absolutely dominated, with a little help from the ref.

McCalman is just a spud. Like Richard Brown and John Roe, he's got absolutely no impact at the breakdown, in defence or attack. Sure he works hard but even when he makes a tackle, the man is, more often than not, already over the gain line. A bewildering decision. You have to worry about him, he's 192cm and weighs about 105-7kg yet plays as if he's 85 kg. He shouldn't be in the squad, let alone the team.

Without Ioane we can't have a McCabe/ Faingaa centre pairing. They lack any penetration. If you doubt Ioane's impact, watch the New Zealand game then watch this game. Ioane is the one back that consistently gets us on the front foot with slow ball. As I said before, we're screwed without him. Drew Mitchell surely has to come into the squad. Ben Tapaui should've been selected in the squad, would fix all our midfield problems.

I didn't think our scrum was all that bad. Bryce Lawrence gave some really bad penalties at scrum time.

The Irish aren't all that good and won't make it past the quarter finals if they come up against Wales. They seem to play 1 good game in a year, this was obviously the game. I don't really rate our chances against South Africa or New Zealand, don't think we'll beat either of them.

Again, agree with most of this, but think we have a better chance of beating SA and NZ than beating the Poms.

Nothing wrong with the match. A lot of people don't appreciate the strategy and nuance of code, that's all.

I've never understood the Australian obsession with running rugby. It's attractive but there's more to the game than that.

I have said this to people many times. You need to watch union for a few years before you can understand the rules and strategies etc. Only then do you really appreciate it.

 

[Tassie19Cairns20]

Again, agree with most of this, but think we have a better chance of beating SA and NZ than beating the Poms.

Please explain to me how/why you think this, because I don't think that's true at all.

 

[King Elvis]

Pocock and Ioane were huge, huge outs.

Wallabies were too arrogant, they do it all the time against teams they think they should beat - half arse it for the first half, then realize they need to make an effort...

Too late last night.

 

[Caesar]

Our scrum is a lot better than it used to be. We were not destroyed in the Super 15 or Tri-Nations.

We're still not great in the forwards. Scrum aside, in any given match we're usually the worse side at the breakdown. Look at the S15 final - Reds were getting dominated in the ruck for probably 50-60 minutes of the match. A great final 20 and some magic from the backs at key moments masked some marked deficiencies there.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

Please explain to me how/why you think this, because I don't think that's true at all.

We just defeated them in the Tri-Nations and England are our bogey team.

We're still not great in the forwards. Scrum aside, in any given match we're usually the worse side at the breakdown. Look at the S15 final - Reds were getting dominated in the ruck for probably 50-60 minutes of the match. A great final 20 and some magic from the backs at key moments masked some marked deficiencies there.

No doubt we still need to improve, but one of the Reds' strengths this year was the work at the breakdown. We were killed last night by having McCalman play at 7 and for some reason Horwill and co. were not fully committed when rucks formed.

 

[Greenfire]

There's abit of arrogance there isn't there just assuming that you'll roll the Italians.

Not really -we can still lose to the Italians by less than seven points ,finish even with you guys on points and top the group based on head to head.
if it was percieved as arrogance -apologies.
Believe me with irish rugby we do not do arrogance

 

[Kurtley Beale]

Not really -we can still lose to the Italians by less than seven points ,finish even with you guys on points and top the group based on head to head.
if it was percieved as arrogance -apologies.
Believe me with irish rugby we do not do arrogance

is it based on point's difference if so You only beating USA by 12 could do some harm for you.

 

[yage]

is it based on point's difference if so You only beating USA by 12 could do some harm for you.

If our gutless effort last night was anything to go by, we won't beat the USA by more much.
Barely scraped over the line against Italy also... Unless the boys have their ass thoroughly kicked by the ARU, you can go ahead and chalk in a massive loss to SA in the QFs

 

[Greenfire]

is it based on point's difference if so You only beating USA by 12 could do some harm for you.

It is based on points difference.
However the bonus point we lost in not scoring four tries v usa is counterbalanced by Aus not getting a bonus point for finishing within 7 of Ireland today.
My point was if we finish on level points ,ireland still top the group as winner of head to head.

 

[Dipper]

Not really -we can still lose to the Italians by less than seven points ,finish even with you guys on points and top the group based on head to head.
if it was percieved as arrogance -apologies.
Believe me with irish rugby we do not do arrogance

I'm not Australian, I was just making the point that you accused them of arrogance in the way that they talked about Ireland then you assume that it's all wrapped up for you to take top place.

The bottom line is that it's very hard to judge just where both Australia and Ireland are right now in comparison to the other leading sides.

The SH teams routinely bash up the European sides but in 2007 we saw England beat Australia and France beat NZ against all expectations and now in this one Wales should have beaten SA, you lot beat Australia and you do wonder whether the battle hardened tournament play we have with the Heinken Cup sets up the European sides better for the WC, because for the rest of the 4 year cycle we look distinctly second best for most of the time.

What is crazy right now admittedly is that France/England/Wales/Ireland can see a possible route through to the final without having to play a leading SH side, that has to concentrate the mind.Although that assumes that NZ will dispatch the French.

What gives a greater incentive is that you wouldn't bet too much money on any European team beating NZ in the final but if it's a NZ/OZ semi you could imagine NZ getting downed and then the European sides would well fancy having a chance of being able to beat Australia.

 

[Kurtley Beale]

Dipper you don't post on Planet Rugby do you ?

 

[Contra Mundum]

Nothing wrong with the match. A lot of people don't appreciate the strategy and nuance of code, that's all.

I've never understood the Australian obsession with running rugby. It's attractive but there's more to the game than that.

Yeh love the work of the Georgia "Stalins"

 

[S120]

Just got home from Auckland. God ****ing dammit. That was probably the worst game of rugby I've ever had the misfortune to attend.

Ireland thoroughly deserved the win. Wasn't even close. Ireland dominated the **** out of the Wallabies but it was dull as dishwater. Apart from the Irish crowd who were insanely rowdy and noisy (made for an amazing atmosphere) and the consequent atmosphere in town that night. Not surprisingly, I and my mates got heckled most nastily by the Kiwis. They were LOVING it. We had good fun countering with all manner of comebacks (many of which revolved around their 24 year wait) but the atmosphere in the city was just insane. The Irish were literally dancing in the streets and the Kiwis were getting into it just as hard. The Irish bars (which we went into for a bit of fun and we were feeling rowdy) were packed out all night.

Anyway, on to the game. I haven't read the whole thread or read any Australian journalists columns or opinions, so I'll just give my thoughts having been at the game.

First thing first. Robbie Deans well and truly ****ed us with not picking Beau Robinson. I said it at the time that if Pocock goes down, we're very, very, very vulnerable. To pick McCalman as our back up 7 coming into the RWC due to Deans thinking the new breakdown rules show that 7's are not as valuable as once before was the stupidest decision of the comp so far. We had ZERO presence at the breakdown. Pocock can't be completely replaced. I know that and we all know that. But to not pick a genuine 7 back up instead of picking a 3rd halfback or Palu/Samo or McCalman/Higginbotham was to put us in such a ludicrously vulnerable position. It's not McCalman's fault. He tried but there was just nothing there. It is squarely on Deans and his coaching panel. I was so angry after the game over this.

McCabe and Fainga'a centre combo has to be changed. I don't really mind who but at least one should go. I want AAC at 13 with Barnes at 12. I doubt it'll happen but Fainga'a and McCabe together just don't give enough in attack, particularly without Ioane who was sorely missed. We had nothing in terms of punch in the backline, no dynamic option aside from Kurtley Beale who tried his guts out but was sadly on his own. Genia shut down, Quade shut down (the boo's he copped every time he touched were incredibly loud).

Scrum got beaten by not a great pack IMO. Healy has not been an outstanding scrumagger over the last few years but he smashed Alexander. TPN had an absolute shocker. One of the worst games I've ever seen him play. Poor lineout throwing, dropped balls, horrible scrums. Didn't look fit.

Ireland out-worked, out-enthused, out-ran, out-tackled, out-did Australia in absolutely everything. I don't wanna write too much more as I'm getting worked up about it again now.

 

[Mint Condition]

S120, hope you enjoyed the trip despite the bad result.

I think you're probably right re the lack of a replacement for Pocock, but I don't think Deans' logic was necessarily wrong. After all the Irish side didn't have a fetching open side flanker. They had three very physical, heavy hitting, ball running backrowers. McCalman was just ineffective. We didn't necessarily need another fetcher, but we definitely needed someone with more physicality at the breakdown. I probably would prefer to play Higginbotham with an instruction to play tighter, but hard to say whether it would make a difference or whether he would suit that role. I just think he'd bring a bit more mongrel.

 

[S120]

Please don't take the tone of my post above to be the way I felt all weekend! I did indeed have a fantastic time over there. The atmosphere in the city on Saturday night was as manic as anything I've ever seen. The Wallabies winning wouldn't have provided that, so that was a positive. We were just feeling a bit flat after the game so we didn't get as trashed as we thought we might. We still had a good time though.

The precinct they've erected down at the harbour for the World Cup is great too. Great spot to watch and have some beers in.

Prices are ludicrously inflated over there and the bars are far too small and too few in number to properly accommodate so many footy fans though.

Regarding McCalman/Higginbotham, I'd have preferred Higginbotham as well but I don't think that would have made much of a difference. Pocock just has to be wrapped in cotton wool from now til the finals. He is so, so important to our chances, particularly now we've ****ed ourselves by having to beat the Boks, All Blacks and England in succession to win the cup (all results going as expected).

 

[Caesar]

That was probably the worst game of rugby I've ever had the misfortune to attend.

Ireland thoroughly deserved the win. Wasn't even close. Ireland dominated the **** out of the Wallabies but it was dull as dishwater.

Surely I wasn't the only person to thoroughly enjoy the contest?

Thought it was a great game of tactical rugby, personally.

 

[Mint Condition]

I thought the 1st half was a bit flat but the 2nd was very intense and absorbing. I like the fact that rugby has such contrasting styles and tactics and one game to another can be played completely differently. I think it was definitely a game for the purists though and required an appreciation of forward play. The casual fan or occasional viewer that prefers league or AFL might not have enjoyed it as much because it wasn't free flowing.

It's similar I think to how Victorian AFL fans think the Swans play a boring style (especially when the Swans were on top in the mid 2000's) because it's so stifling. But for a lot of Swans fans, many of whom are also rugby union fans (both codes are strongest in the same parts of sydney), it's smart tactics and the intensity is engrossing.

 

[S120]

I may have not expressed myself properly in my quoted line. I was more horribly disappointed with the Wallabies, who I thought played horrendously and were "dull as dishwater".

I appreciate how good a performance it was by Ireland and certainly appreciate how well they set their game up to block out Genia/Cooper and not allow any room out wide for the Wallabies to use. Only Kurtley Beale was able to manufacture space without it being given to him as he is so good on his feet and so lightning quick. He was able to make holes on his own cause he's that damn good.

Add to that that Ireland's pack beat the **** out of our pack and it created for such a dominant game from Ireland that the Wallabies were just incapable of anything. I didn't think it was intriguing from the Wallabies in terms of what they did at all. They were just incapable of dealing with the pressure which was infuriating to watch as a Wallabies fan. But I certainly appreciate and acknowledge how well Ireland stuck to their plan and how well they executed it.

 

[King Elvis]

Watching the replay.

We were inept.

Second half, we just keep kicking and chipping - why?

This is the only pool match that mattered, and we couldn't get ourselves up for it.

Useless.

 

[King Elvis]

Almost every scrum, the Irish initiated contact just before the ref instructed them too; had us on the back foot almost every time.

 

[Dipper]

Dipper you don't post on Planet Rugby do you ?

No mate, why do you ask?