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News Sam Hayes signs for North Melbourne VFL
- Thread starter TeeKray
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- Mar 1, 2014
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Our win loss record with Sam Hayes playing is 5-2 and Sam averaged 29 hit outs in those games. Against Geelong at GMHBA last year Sam actually had 35 hit outs so I do not see that as being slaughtered in the ruckwork. Sam was beaten by Blicavs around the ground but he more than held his own in the tap ruckwork. Port actually won the hit outs that day 40-35.
Last week Brynn Teakle had just 15 hit outs and 8 possessions so on that basis it is hard to see that he is any better than Sam.
What is wrong with playing Hayes and Teakle? Other sides manage to fit two ruckmen into the rotations and we were prepared to do it two years ago.
Last week Brynn Teakle had just 15 hit outs and 8 possessions so on that basis it is hard to see that he is any better than Sam.
What is wrong with playing Hayes and Teakle? Other sides manage to fit two ruckmen into the rotations and we were prepared to do it two years ago.
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4 of those wins were against West Coast, St Kilda, North and Essendon - all teams which we would've beaten regardless of who was playing in ruck.
Not saying that Teakle is the answer over Hayes, or even that we don't give Hayes another go - just that people trotting out the "we have a 5-2 record when he plays" stat is a bit misleading and overinflates his impact.
I hope an investigative journalist writes a book called The Hinkley Years.
We would get a lot of explanations for so much stuff over the decade.
We would get a lot of explanations for so much stuff over the decade.
Just noticed that Hayes did not lay one tackle in his last three games at AFL level, people love to say that tapping the ball is his most important job but this kind of deficiency can't be glossed over - is it a lack of intensity, fitness, mobility or a bit of all.
It's because when the ball gets bounced and Sam is nearby, it ends up in our midfielders hands. Who's he supposed to tackle? Ollie Wines?
I'm not a fan of Teakle yet but did he tackle Ollie 7 times against St Kilda?
Did someone on this thread say that Hayes smokes cigarettes and vapes? I don't know if that's true or not but if it is true then that would explain a lot.
I don't believe that the club would want him to fail, makes no sense to deliberately hurt themselves by rucking Lycett and Teakle if there was a better option.
I don't believe that the club would want him to fail, makes no sense to deliberately hurt themselves by rucking Lycett and Teakle if there was a better option.
Collingwood has proved that rucks are over rated.
They have not looked back since trading Brodie Grudy and with injured ruckmen since round three, have been playing Billie Frampton.
Just follow Geelong lead, they trade in lowly rank ruckmen every couple of years.
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First off, that is incorrect.
Secondly, a tackle stat is only recorded if the player being tackled isn't able to dispose of the ball effectively. It doesn't mean Hayes didn't lay any tackles.
What do you think most rucks achieve in their first 7 games?
All-Australian or hall of fame level?
Hayes set a record his first 7 games. He showed elite high level ability.
Half the rucks in the league that made it has up and down games in their first 20 games much less first 7.
Hickey? Most of his first 7 games were like 7d 7 hitouts I kid you not.
Witt’s? The exact same. His first 3 games he didn’t break more than 7d and 7 hitouts
Pittonet? Again he has sub 10d and 11-15d and it wasn’t until years later he managed to break back into the side after being backed in to stay on the list that he managed to notch a couple of 6d 25 hitouts games.
Reeves? His first 7 games was a mix of 7-13d and 19-35 hitouts
Mcinerny ? Mostly low possession 11-14 hitout games
Williams ? Mostly single digits dispossals and hitouts
Cameron ? Same.
Some of these guys started forward, but that just reinforces the fact they were not fit enough and competitive enough in the ruck at the same age as Hayes is getting slammed for not dominating first ruck every week of his first 7 games.
Looking at their stats they took years, years to become the players they are now.
Lol as for our midfield in 2022 it was ******* hideous. Our clearance work was all over the place and wildly inconsistent. To prove my point a 19yr old has come in and is leading us for clearances by a fair margin now.
Our midfield was slow and lazy against Geelong that day. On the back foot like they were born that way.
You do know he is allowed to tackle in general play too? Because you have just highlighted Hayes' major weakness ... He only plays at stoppages. He is basically a traffic cone after the ball is bounced
- Mar 1, 2014
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This from the PAFC website,
Ruckman Brynn Teakle is set for another run at AFL level, with Carr expressing that Scott Lycett, who has spent the last two weeks in the SANFL, is “probably not quite there yet, but that doesn’t rule him out this year.”
From that it doesn't sound like Sam Hayes is anywhere on the selection radar.
Ruckman Brynn Teakle is set for another run at AFL level, with Carr expressing that Scott Lycett, who has spent the last two weeks in the SANFL, is “probably not quite there yet, but that doesn’t rule him out this year.”
From that it doesn't sound like Sam Hayes is anywhere on the selection radar.
Lol I already disproved this wherever else it was you posted this.
Collingwood were the form team in the competition with Cameron in good form leading them.
Then they lost their first 2 ruck choices and they’ve dropped away massively and scraped by with close wins over Adelaide and dons, who people would have expected them to roll over before their rucks went down.
It proves the opposite of what you claim.
The fact they overpaid Grundy and developed a not a superstar but quite decent and getting better ruck doesn’t prove rucks aren’t important.
It might be a good argument against multi- million dollar long term super contracts, but that’s about it.
Pies didn’t get rid of Grundy cause he’s crap, or because rucks aren’t important, they got rid of Grundy because their cap was tight as they gave bulk coin to a few stars and it jettisoning one ruck when a cheaper guy has improved makes financial sense.
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Would make The Robert Shaw Years look like a tea party
- Sep 25, 2013
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So Philthy, why do you think we aren’t playing Hayes? What did you see in those games at AFL level that have meant he has been discounted?
The Hinkley doesn’t like him or doesn’t support young talls/rucks arguments don’t quite hold, as we worked hard to keep Sammy and he was given games, and then untried Teakle was given games so Hinkley was keen to keep him and has blooded young talls/rucks. And the drugs/smoking rumour is just crazy.
You’re obviously pro Hayes and a solid judge of his ruck craft and work, so why do you think he isn’t getting a run?
I’ve said this before and recently
Hinkley doesn’t care about hitouts, he wants his rucks to be tall midfielders.
Hayes doesn’t get clearances and doesn’t get involved in link up play like a mid.
That’s what Hinkley wants, and it’s one of the reasons he’s a s**t coach.
So we play the tallest forwardline every year but he hates tall forwards. and we play Lobbe, Ryder and Lycett but he wants a midfielder rucking. Thanks for explaining.
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Do you think it might have something to do with his role in team defence? Ie if he isn’t able to work forward and back that leaves a hole that can be exploited?
If Hinkley wants bumps, aggression, clearances, tackles, follow up work and link in play work ie an extra midfielder as you say, isn’t that what many of the best ruckmen provide? And if that is what is wanted, why hasn’t Sam worked on it? Or did he get better at it during the 7 games - you’re a better judge than I so maybe I missed it? And didn’t Ryder and Lycett both provide that?
Hayes didn’t get a run under Schofield (was still junior so maybe fair enough), got a short run under Monty and isn’t getting a run under Carr. Could our midfield and the coach have something to say in Hayes’ non selection?
He spent ages playing as many smalls in the forward line as possible and it’s only now that we have Dixon, who’s amazing at ground level for a guy his size, and Marshall who’s a freak that kens willing to go tall.
He only likes talls who are extremely capable as smalls.
As for the rucks you named, you just gave examples of rucks known for being mobile.
Lol. Lycett isn’t known for getting back or forward.
There’s no sign of that being Hinkleys expectation for a ruck.
As I said, he wants a tall that plays as an extra mid.
Why doesn’t he just play a mid you ask? Well he’s gone about as close as he can, opting to play finlayson there for a while and we’ve seen him willing to throw wines and more so Spp into there.
Maybe playing a mid in there full time is a bridge too far? No coach has ever done that. I don’t think Hinkley could do it and get away with it. My suspicion is if another coach did it and was successful that Ken would follow him down that rabbit role as fast as he could, but the first coach to do it would have to be very successful, or his neck would be right out on that chopping block. They would get torn apart for doing it and failing.
And in reality, it wouldn’t work. Not as anything other than a surprise tactic anyway.
A good tall ruck would just expose them all day long.
What most of the league wants is a good tall competitive ruck, who also makes an effort to impact after the tap.
Hinkley I suspect is neglecting the former part and placing more emphasis on the latter.
Which is dumb, as we’ve seen with lycett, teams just beat him in the ruck, then around the ground have more impact than him anyway.
I think the fact that he vapes/smokes and in the pre season chad literally had a hand in his back to push him forward in running drills was probably when the club gave up on him, I love the idea of Sam and the club has failed him in some aspects but Sam hasn’t helped his cause
