Selection 1 PSD Tradable?

[hougie]

Let me ask you this question. Do you actually believe the Tiges have more room than the Blues in their Salary Cap? Next year the oldest player on our list will be 27, and we only have 2 large contracts.

I certainly believe it would be difficult for Judd to out-price the Tiges.

We've got too much in the coffers.

You may have more room in the cap, and probably do, but I'm reasonably confident we can afford him.

Unless he puts in like $2m a year - which he won't do.

 

[parrot]

I'm not saying we'll have more room than your mob. I'd expect you'd actually have a fair amount of space left.

I'm simply stating a few reasons why i think we'll be able to accomodate Chris Judd, should the opportunity arise.

After all, that is how we got onto all this talk of contracts isn't it?

The point is though, if the Blues do have more room under their Salary Cap, and Judd falls into the PSD, he could put a price on his contract that the Tiges couldn't accomadate, and thereby get picked up by the Blues. Nick Stevens did that to the Bulldogs a few years ago. Even if Judd doesn't fall into the PSD, the fact that this could happen, gives the Blues more barginning leverage with the Weagles should Judd choose the Blues as one of his preferred Clubs.

 

[hougie]

The point is though, if the Blues do have more room under their Salary Cap, and Judd falls into the PSD, he could put a price on his contract that the Tiges couldn't accomadate, and thereby get picked up by the Blues. Nick Stevens did that to the Bulldogs a few years ago. Even if Judd doesn't fall into the PSD, the fact that this could happen, gives the Blues more barginning leverage with the Weagles should Judd choose the Blues as one of his preferred Clubs.

Read my post, he'd have to put up an absolute shitload to get that done.

And I thought the Doggies wanted Rawlings as he was KPP, so they could've got Stevens but they elected not to.

 

[DeepThroat007]

front end or back end it doesn't matter his deal was $1m for 5years trust me worst case; $500,000 for his final year would mean next year would be very light and visa vera if his years were reversed, we could easily fix Judd's contract to suit(ie. back end & front end) don't forget he wants a 5 year deal so his contract could be fixed to suit.
As far as Johnson is concerned well his contract wouldn't be as high as Richo's or browns so i couldn't imagine he would hurt us.

Plus Gasper was asked to take a cut then we pushed him out.
Say $300,000 per year

retired

Kingsley $150k
Knoble $150k (approx)
Hall $230k (approx) remember we resigned him when sydney made a play for him.

howat king graham all promoted $70k per year all promoted= $210k

which means we have freed up just over $600k(approx) a year free as of this year.

 

[hougie]

retired

Kingsley $150k
Knoble $150k (approx)
Hall $230k (approx) remember we resigned him when sydney made a play for him.

Kingsley was on minimum wage - not that it really matters.

 

[parrot]

Read my post, he'd have to put up an absolute shitload to get that done.

And I thought the Doggies wanted Rawlings as he was KPP, so they could've got Stevens but they elected not to.

The Blues could front-load the contract i.e. 2 mill in the first year and then tapper heavily.

 

[hougie]

The Blues could front-load the contract i.e. 2 mill in the first year and then tapper heavily.

If it tapers away then I'm sure Richmond could afford him too.

 

[parrot]

If it tapers away then I'm sure Richmond could afford him too.

You'll need to beat our first year offer. That's how we could price you out of it because of our extra salary cap room. It has been done before.

 

[DeepThroat007]

add to that we don't pay %100 of the cap any way, which i would say from memory we could bought a high priced player last year we didn't have the funds, not case this year. I think we made a $1m profit this year.

 

[DeepThroat007]

why would he accept a high first year offer if almost half goes in tax, the more its loaded up the less money he will recieved i'm sure he would want it spread evenly over the journey of his contract.

 

[hougie]

You'll need to beat our first year offer. That's how we could price you out of it because of our extra salary cap room. It has been done before.

Alright - basically if the contract is too excessive for us, then it'd be too excessive for Carlton.

If it out-prices us, Judd would take up too much of your salary cap to sustain the rest of your list. So you may have more cap room, but not enough to allow you to sign him without severe impact on list as a whole.

 

[marco polo]

You'll need to beat our first year offer. That's how we could price you out of it because of our extra salary cap room. It has been done before.

Not necessarily...

Whether or not you offer Judd a massive front-heavy contract, or we offer him a consistant well-paid contract shouldn't make too big a difference.

Lets face it, it's not like Judd is desperate for cash right at this moment.

At the end of the day, $5 million is $5 million, regardless of how much you get in the first year of the contract.

 

[telsor]

From memory, Richo wasn't on the veterans list last year because we needed to have 100% of his pay count in order to get to the 92.5% minimum.

That'd imply we could free up 8-900K, probably more when you factor in retirements, and I seem to recall hearing that Brown resigned on a smaller contract earlier in the year.

Not saying we could match/outbid Carlton, but if they did beat us, they'd probably have to go pretty hard.

The other thing I'd be curious about is how the salary cap rules work with the PSD. I know you have to convince the AFL you have room to make any 'bids' you make before you make them, which means contracts have to be in by then. Does that also mean you need to be at/over 92.5% by then? If so, then I'm thinking no Judd contract will be over 7.5% of the salary cap for the first year...ie, ~600K. Sure, maybe a bit of leeway would be allowed, because you're sure to pickup *someone*, but I have doubts that you could have 1.2M free when you can't be sure you'll spend it ( ie, don't have pick 1 ).

 

[parrot]

Not necessarily...

Whether or not you offer Judd a massive front-heavy contract, or we offer him a consistant well-paid contract shouldn't make too big a difference...

Yes it will because if his first year demands exceed your salary cap you won't be able to pick him in the PSD. That's the point.

 

[marco polo]

Yes it will because if his first year demands exceed your salary cap you won't be able to pick him in the PSD. That's the point.

I'd say if it's going to be THAT excessive for us, it may also be too excessive for you...

Remember, Chris Judd won't be your only player, and putting him on a deal so huge that we cannot afford him may not be very beneficial for future contracts (those of Murphy and Gibbs for example).

 

[parrot]

I'd say if it's going to be THAT excessive for us, it may also be too excessive for you......

You don't understand. Lets just leave it at that.

 

[hougie]

Would Carlton and Judd know what the exact price that would put Richmond out of the market?

...Even though it would be an incredible incredible price which isn't going to happen, I was probably being conservative with $2m with a frontloaded contract.

 

[marco polo]

You don't understand. Lets just leave it at that.

Good idea, this whole thing was getting a tad confusing.

Lets just say that whoever Chris Judd goes to, will be one lucky club indeed.

 

[tigerdan]

Now listen right here Parrot!

Here are some 'facts' about Richmond's cap space - in that they were reported in the media over the last year or so. That does not necessarily mean they are true (Greg Miller is the source of some).

Richmond are at 92.5%. The spare 7.5% = ~520k on the current cap.

Richo is eligible for the Veterans list but NOT CURRENTLY ON IT. This is because we needed to gobble up his salary to stay above 92.5%. So when we put him on the vets list we will get half his salary freed up. You'd have to assume this is about 200 k of savings.

Joel Bowden will be eligible for the vets list next year. I will stand corrected but I do not think he was on it this year (either had not been 10 year player or we needed to 'waste' his salary for the 92.5%). So that would be maybe 175 k of savings.

So already that is 895 k invented out of thin air.

Also, we have had retirements - but it's likely that their salaries would have already been budgeted into next years cap for other players (say, some of Gaspars salary this year has already budgeted on Deledio for next year).

Simmonds was on 5x 200k salary if the reports are true. So effectively he gets cheaper for us each year. A bargain if I ever saw one.

All we need is for some guys who would normally have had a contract renewed to get traded or retire and we will free up more cash. For example, Krakoeur on 275k a year, Coughlan on who knows how much. There's a good chance that neither of them will be at Richmond next year. Likewise there will be lesser lights who will be delisted.

In any case, we are 900k ahead of the 8 ball, and that is without trying real hard or having to do a fire sale. See if you can do the same with the blues - unless you want to trade away Fev!

And like I said, I might be wrong, but the facts about 92.5 an Richo/Bowden were reported in the media. They are not made up.

 

[tigerdan]

Would Carlton and Judd know what the exact price that would put Richmond out of the market?

...Even though it would be an incredible incredible price which isn't going to happen, I was probably being conservative with $2m with a frontloaded contract.

Even if Carlton did try to front load the contract, they still need to clear AT THE VERY LEAST 1.5 million of cap space from this year (and probably more). If Carlton were at 92.5% (and I have never seen it reported) then they still need to get rid of another 1.5 million worth of space from this year's list.

It was a very shrewd move by the Tigers to not use the vets list this year.

 

[Weaver]

You'll need to beat our first year offer. That's how we could price you out of it because of our extra salary cap room. It has been done before.

And they changed the rules. But keep spouting ill-informed cr@p.

 

[Weaver]

Here are some 'facts' about Richmond's cap space - in that they were reported in the media over the last year or so. That does not necessarily mean they are true (Greg Miller is the source of some).

Richmond are at 92.5%. The spare 7.5% = ~520k on the current cap.
[/QUOTE]

No club is that low.

Richo is eligible for the Veterans list but NOT CURRENTLY ON IT. This is because we needed to gobble up his salary to stay above 92.5%. So when we put him on the vets list we will get half his salary freed up. You'd have to assume this is about 200 k of savings.

Richo and Gaspar were on the Vets list this year.

Joel Bowden will be eligible for the vets list next year. I will stand corrected but I do not think he was on it this year (either had not been 10 year player or we needed to 'waste' his salary for the 92.5%). So that would be maybe 175 k of savings.

Putting Bowden on in Gaspar's place won't save us much cap space at all. If anything with Gas's backloaded contract we might be slightly worse off.

So already that is 895 k invented out of thin air.

Thin air is right.

And like I said, I might be wrong, but the facts about 92.5 an Richo/Bowden were reported in the media. They are not made up.

Yeah you could be wrong.

 

[Weaver]

...Even though it would be an incredible incredible price which isn't going to happen, I was probably being conservative with $2m with a frontloaded contract.

Frontloaded contract is BF bs.

They changed the rules. A player can nominate his terms but the successfull club is free to negotiate the deal, and the price is averaged.

So If Judd asks for $6m over 4 years we are oblidged to count (minumum) $1.5m to the cap each year and can pay him $1.5m a year. He can't ask for a frontloaded deal.

The 'trick' with the process is not backloading.

It is for lesser players who ask for 4 x $300k. Any club has to count that contract against the CAP. Clubs therefore get spooked away. The club and player can then negotiate a 4 x $200k in REAL money. All dodgy and needs some trust, but it has been done. Can't pull that with a Judd. No one is going to commit a quarter of their cap space to one player.

 

[hougie]

Frontloaded contract is BF bs.

They changed the rules. A player can nominate his terms but the successfull club is free to negotiate the deal, and the price is averaged.

So If Judd asks for $6m over 4 years we are oblidged to count (minumum) $1.5m to the cap each year and can pay him $1.5m a year. He can't ask for a frontloaded deal.

The 'trick' with the process is not backloading.

It is for lesser players who ask for 4 x $300k. Any club has to count that contract against the CAP. Clubs therefore get spooked away. The club and player can then negotiate a 4 x $200k in REAL money. All dodgy and needs some trust, but it has been done. Can't pull that with a Judd. No one is going to commit a quarter of their cap space to one player.

Out of interest, when did they change the rules?

In sum, difficult if not impossible, for Judd to bypass the Tigers.

 

[Don Logan]

And they changed the rules. But keep spouting ill-informed cr@p.

Parrot, you've just been 'owned' by the most incisive, sagacious and knowledgeable BF member.