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Selfish Steve....?

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A few things first. Steve Waugh is one of the toughest sportsmen I have ever had the pleasure of watching. I can't recall having seen anyone having the mental strength this bloke does when the chips are down.

But, I have never really liked him. I admire him greatly, I rate him through the roof in terms of his ability to lead a cricket side. He has created a frightfully attacking unit that has done just about everything possible in terms of success.

But, the incident with Martyn was murder. Self preservation in it's most obvious form IMO. He has always seemed to have a bigger than normal focus on protecting his average to me, something I cannot stand. He has an awful record with run outs, and no matter what David Bloody Hoooks says, it aint because he is slow. Anyone who doesn't think he had time or opportunity to go about the incident with Martyn differently is not watching things closely IMO.

Other accusations levelled at him have been pretty shabby mind you (being selfish in announcing his retirement early, the lack of respect towards Langer etc) and there is merit in his comments re a personal vendetta against him from some media members (R Craddock hates him), but is he a slefish cricketer?
 
Originally posted by NorthBhoy
A few things first. Steve Waugh is one of the toughest sportsmen I have ever had the pleasure of watching. I can't recall having seen anyone having the mental strength this bloke does when the chips are down.

But, I have never really liked him. I admire him greatly, I rate him through the roof in terms of his ability to lead a cricket side. He has created a frightfully attacking unit that has done just about everything possible in terms of success.

But, the incident with Martyn was murder. Self preservation in it's most obvious form IMO. He has always seemed to have a bigger than normal focus on protecting his average to me, something I cannot stand. He has an awful record with run outs, and no matter what David Bloody Hoooks says, it aint because he is slow. Anyone who doesn't think he had time or opportunity to go about the incident with Martyn differently is not watching things closely IMO.

Other accusations levelled at him have been pretty shabby mind you (being selfish in announcing his retirement early, the lack of respect towards Langer etc) and there is merit in his comments re a personal vendetta against him from some media members (R Craddock hates him), but is he a slefish cricketer?
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If he is that selfish why did he declare with 25 overs still available. Could have got another ton and got closer to Borders record.
 
I thought he was when he didn't take the strike away from the tail enders during the boxing day test match against the poms a few ashes series ago, but my attitude has changed towards him. I think on the weekend there was definatly 3 runs there, Marto saw him coming with speed so should have gone. Both had a brain explosion IMO.

Everyone will have an opinion on what happened over the weekend, lets just hope it doesn't ruin a series we should win.
 
There was a reasonably strong body of opinion that thought he could be a little selfish in the early to mid 1990's when there were occassions where he appeared (needless to say impossible to substantiate - though many in the media used to subtly imply such) to be very interested in protecting his average by accumulating the red ink.

I can't say I've noticed this much in the past few years, but it was certainly a niggling doubt many had in the middle stages of his career.

Similarly there were some in the media who believed that the world's best batsman(?) should have assumed more responsiblity and batted higher in the order following Boon's retirement (perhaps Mark at three and Steve at four or vice versa) to allow younger and more inexperienced players to settle in down the order. Tugga's defence was he performed well at number five so why try to fix something that's not broken. Maybe there's some merit in that but in my book your best batsman always bats at three or four. Better to come in and try to stabilise the innings at '1 for' or 2 for' than at '3 or 4 for'.

Its really hard to say. I'll go in to bat for him as one of the greats of Australian cricket ( that's not up for debate IMO) but there have always been a couple of things here and there that haven't sat well with me. Maybe its his single minded personality, or his apparent inability to laugh at himself - I guess we may get a better understanding of the man himself if he takes up a commentary position.

Oh - and for what its worth I can remember someone who was every bit as impressive and tough as Tugga (and IMHO more so)when the chips were down. His name was Allan Border and how quickly we forget yesterday's heroes.
 

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the Martyn/Waugh run out IMO

It was a mix up that shouldn't have happened. Both players equally to blame. When that happens, the better player stays. As far as I'm concerned, Steve Waugh now is better than Martyn has ever been and probably ever will be. So he stays. I call it common sense not selfishness
 
definite 3 runs. Marto should have realised that. but when he called and signalled no, steve should have stopped. marto was not in two minds. steve should have ran back, then had a word to damien and said that it should have been 3 and to look for 3 next time.
 
Martyn went to head off for the 3rd run, and so did steve. There was an easy 3 runs in it, but after martyn took a couple of steps down the track he yelled no for some reason. It was his fault in as much as that. From then, steve should have been looking at martyn, which he didnt. When he realised Martyn wasnt running he was already halfway down the pitch. Martyn still could have run and made it to the other end, as he was running to the non-danger end, i'm not quite sure why he went back to his crease. Instinct most probably.

Steve should be told to either look at the fielder or is partner, he was doing neither. Martyn should learn how to judge a run.
 
i think we'll forget about the incident before too long, and concentrate on important things like how many runs haydo can get in the next two tests. a chance to get top 10 in calendar year runs.
 
I've personally featured in enough run outs to realise that there are times when I was at blame and at others my partner. But never did I believe that it was personal or deliberate.
To cast aspersions on a person who has done so much for cricket, let alone Australian cricket and also the things he does outside of cricket just smacks of Tall Poppy Syndrome.
Yes , believe that it was his fault if you like. I personally do .But please one of the best Captains and Batsmen to ever grace a field give it a break.
As for the best batsman batting at a lower position . I agre but I don't think that Steve ever actually thought that the batsmen who were selected for Australia were not better suited for those positions. Earlier Steve was finding his feet at 6 He became a five as Australia started winning and with his temperment he was better suited later in the order if the chips were down. Australia has been fortunate to of had Border and S Waugh just lately , two batsmen you would put your life on in a tough battle and that is why Waugh was regarded as the best in the world because he performed day in and day out in this position. He was not the bat for 1, 2 or 3 he realised this , the Aussie selectors realised this!
Like the first poster first started saying you have to respect this guy, whether you like him or not. But to cast aspersions is for the Media ( who onl;y want to sell Papers) and Tall Poppy Slayers
 
Originally posted by nicko18
Martyn went to head off for the 3rd run, and so did steve. There was an easy 3 runs in it, but after martyn took a couple of steps down the track he yelled no for some reason. It was his fault in as much as that.
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Who's 'fault' it is (as much as the word fault seems too harsh in this instance) is pretty clear (though completely trivial) - it was Martyns call and he made it and, for whatever reason, Waugh didnt respond. But a run out is a run out - there could be a thousand reasons why Waugh kept going (Steve either didnt see him, got him lost in the crowd, had his head down, thought Martyn would have gone for the three). Selfishness Im sure had nothing to do with it.

That is trivial though, and beside the point, because after all that, Martyn sacrificed his wicket for his captain, a massive gesture. And what f#cks me off is the beat up the media have made about Waugh being selfish.

Its got to the point where Waugh has now had to defend himself. And only now have I read a report from a journalist that acknowledges Waugh's quote that he was very grateful to Martyn for giving up his wicket, that it was a generous thing to do.

The media has been very selective in leaving details like that out, which contributes to a perception that Waugh is, perhaps, 'selfish'.
 
a runout's a runout's a runout's a runout's a runout's a runout. You havent played much cricket if you havent been involved in runouts. They both made split second decisions, both wrong, paid the price. Just like that split second decision to prod outside off and get a nick, knowing as you are doing it, holy f... Thats cricket. For someone to say a test cricketer ran out his partner due to selfishness, has no knowledge of the game or the man. Bring on Adelaide.
 
Lets get it right it was waugh's fault 100 percent had time to go back but just keepet going.The only thing martyn did wrong was left his crease when waugh got down there.which he only done that because waugh's the captain and its his last series. Theres no doubt that waugh is one of the greats in cricket but he's a great 5 or 6 batsman. I just think the best batsman should bat in the top4 where the going gets tough
 
Steve Waugh deserves all the criticism he is getting for this one. Martyn played the ball forward of square so it was his call as batsman. He turned said no and raised his hand Steve Waugh continued and ran straight past him - very selfish.

Also a little stat for those how say Waugh isn't selfish.
Test runouts Steve Waugh has been invovled in: 27
Steve Waugh run out - 4
Partner - 23.

That's a little bit too lopsided to be co-incidence.
 

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Originally posted by Slax
Steve Waugh deserves all the criticism he is getting for this one. Martyn played the ball forward of square so it was his call as batsman. He turned said no and raised his hand Steve Waugh continued and ran straight past him - very selfish.

Also a little stat for those how say Waugh isn't selfish.
Test runouts Steve Waugh has been invovled in: 27
Steve Waugh run out - 4
Partner - 23.

That's a little bit too lopsided to be co-incidence.
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i've said it before, but i'll probably have to say it again for the newbies to the game and the people with memory problems. Steve Waugh was the quickest runner between wickets by an absolute mile when he was younger, along with Dean Jones. Fielders knew what end to throw to and it was never Waugh's end. But as they say, people in this country appreciate a persons fall from grace much more than their rise to it, and blind statements like the above are testament to this.
 
Originally posted by demon21
Lets get it right it was waugh's fault 100 percent had time to go back but just keepet going.The only thing martyn did wrong was left his crease when waugh got down there.which he only done that because waugh's the captain and its his last series. Theres no doubt that waugh is one of the greats in cricket but he's a great 5 or 6 batsman. I just think the best batsman should bat in the top4 where the going gets tough
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Waugh has for the most of his career been an allrounder. Batting up the order has always been very foreign to him. If youve played the game at any half decent level, you will appreciate this. There are openers who struggle at 5-6 and vice versa. Sure he bats at 3 for the odd occasion for Bankstown and NSW, but he wouldnt be shifting a specialist number three in the test squad.
 
for the people who otherwise wouldnt know. If there is an easy single on offer, or a two or 3 or whatever, and you call 'yes' running to the danger end, and you see your partner advance down the pitch, you have every right to take off. Now Waugh should have looked at Martyn, and he did when he was halfway down the pitch. At that stage Martyn still could have made it home and should have run, because Waugh couldnt possibly turn and make it back easily. but what the hell was he thinking not going for the 3rd anyway?
 
Re: Re: Selfish Steve....?

Originally posted by EssJayW
If he is that selfish why did he declare with 25 overs still available. Could have got another ton and got closer to Borders record.
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Exactly !!!! What ****es me off about this crap is if Steve Waugh hadnt announced his retirement, none of this s*it would even be talked about. Or what if Gilly had been involved in the run out instead of Waugh, people here would be calling for Martyns head for trying to protect his (alleged fragile) spot in the side.

Give me a break :rolleyes:
 
Re: Re: Re: Selfish Steve....?

Originally posted by EagleBlue
Or what if Gilly had been involved in the run out instead of Waugh, people here would be calling for Martyns head for trying to protect his (alleged fragile) spot in the side.

Give me a break :rolleyes:
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Or... shudder to think, if Waugh just stood his ground when an easy 3 was on.
 

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People will always be lining up to bad Steve Waugh for some reason.

Take his retirement for example.

He announced it before the series.

The media says "err, why did you announce it before the series, it's just gonna become a Waugh-fest and take the teams minds of the game.


Had he said nothign baout his retirement, than what would have happened all summer, would've been like last summer - "will this be Waugh's last test?? when will he retire?? etc,. etc,."

He announces it just before the Sydney test or after it, and the media would've been saying "err, why didn't you announce it before the series, that way the team wouldn't have been distracted not knowing whether or not you were gonna be there any longer etc,. etc,."

He was in a lose-lose situation.
 
Wouldn't it be hilarious if Waugh pulled a hammy or something and missed the Sydney Test.
 
Originally posted by nicko18
iBut as they say, people in this country appreciate a persons fall from grace much more than their rise to it, and blind statements like the above are testament to this.
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Too true. People are far too quick to criticise and jump to conclusions, and the sad thing is the media are sometimes the worst offenders. Selective reporting is just as bad as being blatantly biased.
 

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