SEN - Soft

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Waited for a while, just got through and questioned them on blaming Carlton for not investigating the rumours. I said that it was an AFL function and that Carlton had no reason to know any more than anybody else and that these rumours were everywhere including the internet for the best part of two weeks. They said I might be right but then said waffle about being remiss not to look into things if you run a $10m business. I told them Carlton had meetings about it and they cut me off.

They don't want to discuss anything with anyone that goes against their viewpoint.

 

[bLuEbOy1984]

they always cut me off ODN they are uselss basards

SEN - STKILDA ENTERTAINMENT NETWORK

 

[OZBomb]

Perfectly valid point you made. We're a football club, not a private investigation agency. It's up to the police and the AFL to investigate these charges.

 

[AlecDuncan]

That's Leach for you. You can take the boy out of the ABC, but you can't take the ABC out of the boy.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Well ODN, I can put a voice to your typing now ODN.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I tried to talk over the top of them but I suspect they had shut me down by then.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Well ODN, I can put a voice to your typing now ODN.

I was getting a head of steam up. Hope I didn't sound feral. Radio is a little unnerving if you are not used to it.

 

[LemmingMaster]

I was actually impressed that an educated Carlton supporter had finalled called SEN. I've been sick of listening to the constant bunch of callers complaining about the Fev trade.

 

[Alpha1]

Well done ODN, I managed to catch a little bit of what you said. But you were cut off, SEN are ****ing disgusting, hate that station.

 

[Silvagnis]

Did SEN interrupt the commercials to talk about sport?

ODN should have told SEN he was Tony Jones.

They would probably listen to that flog and put him on air.

 

[The Big League]

Waited for a while, just got through and questioned them on blaming Carlton for not investigating the rumours. I said that it was an AFL function and that Carlton had no reason to know any more than anybody else and that these rumours were everywhere including the internet for the best part of two weeks. They said I might be right but then said waffle about being remiss not to look into things if you run a $10m business. I told them Carlton had meetings about it and they cut me off.

They don't want to discuss anything with anyone that goes against their viewpoint.

No offense ODN, and as you can see i've been defending Carlton heavily for the best part of an hour on the main board, but Carlton not investigating the actions of one of their players after they had heard he assaulted someone is pretty poor.
For sticks to then say "I don't want to get involved" is really offensive to everyone involved.
I know you guys cop alot of shit, some of it warranted and some of it grossly exagerated, but surely you can see that not investigating the incident stinks of a coverup.

 

[Dramoth]

No offense ODN, and as you can see i've been defending Carlton heavily for the best part of an hour on the main board, but Carlton not investigating the actions of one of their players after they had heard he assaulted someone is pretty poor.
For sticks to then say "I don't want to get involved" is really offensive to everyone involved.
I know you guys cop alot of shit, some of it warranted and some of it grossly exagerated, but surely you can see that not investigating the incident stinks of a coverup.

And if an AFL official had stepped in and said that the woman in question doesnt want to make an official complaint about it, just get rid of the ****wit.

What were we supposed to do then. Trade him interstate at all costs.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

No offense ODN, and as you can see i've been defending Carlton heavily for the best part of an hour on the main board, but Carlton not investigating the actions of one of their players after they had heard he assaulted someone is pretty poor.
For sticks to then say "I don't want to get involved" is really offensive to everyone involved.
I know you guys cop alot of shit, some of it warranted and some of it grossly exagerated, but surely you can see that not investigating the incident stinks of a coverup.

I am sorry but this stuff is really simplistic. If you will indulge me and try to answer some questions, you will be the first one to do so.

1. Do you believe that Carlton had first hand knowledge that the incident happened or did they hear rumours or allegations that the incident happened?

2. If they were told by the HUN that the incident happened, why would they then need to do an investigation to verify that the incident happened?

3. Having heard the allegation, do you think they have a duty of care to go public with an allegation that they had no first hand knowledge of?

4. What is the reason for clubs investigating incident? Do you agree that a club investigates an incident to find out if a player has breached the code of conduct and so that they can take disciplinary action over it?

5. Did Carlton take disciplinary action? Do you consider getting rid of him a disciplinary action?

6. Do you think that if a person's employer makes a claim that their employee was assaulted by one of your employees, that it is your duty to conduct a criminal investigation and provide a comprehensive report to the police? Do you believe that the alleged victim needs to first make a complaint and express a desire to proceed?

7. Do you recall Carlton saying they were meeting to discuss the Fevola situation?

8. Do you recall it taking days before Carlton decided what action to take? Is it unreasonable to think that Carlton asked the rest of their present employees if they saw anything? Who else should they have asked?

9. Please outline the exact course of events that should have transpired in relation to this investigation. You see, when people say a club should investigate something, they give no thought to what that should reasonably entail.

As I said, nobody else has ever answered this and we have been hit with this a few times. I really appreciate you being the first one to give it a go.

Thanks

 

[The Big League]

Let me firstly say that I am a firm believer of people are innocent until proven guilty, so as far as I stand Brendon embarrassed himself at the Brownlow have too many drinks, and nothing else, yet.

I am sorry but this stuff is really simplistic. If you will indulge me and try to answer some questions, you will be the first one to do so.

1. Do you believe that Carlton had first hand knowledge that the incident happened or did they hear rumours or allegations that the incident happened?

They knew enough to suspend him from you B&F and fine him, they also held a meeting to discuss what may of occured shortly after that night, plus he was surrounded by his teammates and other football entities who seemed to be far from impressed with what they saw. What they saw exactly none of us can be certain.

2. If they were told by the HUN that the incident happened, why would they then need to do an investigation to verify that the incident happened?

If you are told ANYTHING by the Herald Sun regarding one of your players the first thing you do is get on the offensive and try and figure out exactly what really happened. The last thing you do is accept the version of events a glorified tabloid magazine tells you.

3. Having heard the allegation, do you think they have a duty of care to go public with an allegation that they had no first hand knowledge of?

No they do not, but they do have a duty of care to ensure they know exactly what a representative of their football club has got up to.

4. What is the reason for clubs investigating incident? Do you agree that a club investigates an incident to find out if a player has breached the code of conduct and so that they can take disciplinary action over it?

I think a club should investigate any reasonable allegation that could potentially damage the reputation of the club.

5. Did Carlton take disciplinary action? Do you consider getting rid of him a disciplinary action?

It certainly is, more than enough if the allegations turn out to be nothing but hot wind.

6. Do you think that if a person's employer makes a claim that their employee was assaulted by one of your employees, that it is your duty to conduct a criminal investigation and provide a comprehensive report to the police? Do you believe that the alleged victim needs to first make a complaint and express a desire to proceed?

In terms of being the employer, if someone rang me and stated someone from my company had assaulted on of their staff members, the first thing I would do is investigate. Anyone can make an allegation, the way to substantiate that allegation is through an investigation. If you can get to the bottom of it before anyone else, especially the press, you can take affirmative action to rectify the situation, rather then waiting for public pressure to do you in.

7. Do you recall Carlton saying they were meeting to discuss the Fevola situation?

I was under the impression that this did occur, I'm sure the board decided to fine him, I don't think one club representative would make that call without at least consulting other board members

8. Do you recall it taking days before Carlton decided what action to take? Is it unreasonable to think that Carlton asked the rest of their present employees if they saw anything? Who else should they have asked?

Brendon? I heard Ratten say today he hadn't heard from Brendon since Brownlow night. Sticks also elluded to something similar, im not sure if he has had any contact at all with the club since it happened.

7. Please outline the exact course of events that should have transpired in relation to this investigation. You see, when people say a club should investigate something, they give no thought to what that should reasonably entail.

They should of sat down with Brendon and got his side of the story, spoken to the venue owners and also assigned an attorny to make enquiries to the HS so they could substantiate the allegations.

As I said, nobody else has ever answered this and we have been hit with this a few times. I really appreciate you being the first one to give it a go.

Thanks

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Let me firstly say that I am a firm believer of people are innocent until proven guilty, so as far as I stand Brendon embarrassed himself at the Brownlow have too many drinks, and nothing else, yet.

So what was it you wanted Carlton to investigate?

 

[The Big League]

Whether or not he assaulted a female reporter perhaps?

 

[blue gunslinger]

Well done ODN
Certainly my view is that CFC had nothing to investigate as they were soon told all details they needed to know quick smart

 

[The Big League]

By who? The police have not investigated, the AFL are on standby, Crown Casino have stated there are no cameras in the bathrooms. So, it's just the Herald Sun, how could you honestly take their side of the story without at least making your own investigations?

ESPECIALLY since it involved one of their employees.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

By who? The police have not investigated, the AFL are on standby, Crown Casino have stated there are no cameras in the bathrooms. So, it's just the Herald Sun, how could you honestly take their side of the story without at least making your own investigations?

ESPECIALLY since it involved one of their employees.

My feeling is that they did 'investigate' - hence Brendan Fevola being traded today.

I appreciate your fairly measured response to this - but what should Carlton have done here ??

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

By who? The police have not investigated

Because a complaint was not made. No complaint was made to us either, just an allegation that something happened. Did you want us to pretend we were crime investigators?

the AFL are on standby

Right, and they were told at the same time as us. In fact the HUN now say they told ALL interested parties. I would assume a potential trade partner would be included in that.

Crown Casino have stated there are no cameras in the bathrooms.

Correct.

So, it's just the Herald Sun, how could you honestly take their side of the story without at least making your own investigations?

Wait, do you think we just assumed that this one was true and sacked him because of it? Don't you think he deserved to be sacked based on his drunken night? What about the dozens of other unsavoury incidents coming out of the night? What if he did flash at Twigley and tell her to 'take it orally' as has been rumoured. Pretty sure they could find that out fairly easily. They could have acted on several incidents that they could substantiate plus this one that the HUN were privately waving around.

It now seems like you are saying that we should have investigated to try and exonerate Fev.

 

[The Big League]

My feeling is that they did 'investigate' - hence Brendan Fevola being traded today.

I appreciate your fairly measured response to this - but what should Carlton have done here ??

Honestly, they should of had an internal investigation. If they did uncover something untoward then they should of contacted all involved privately and inquired as to what the best resolution would be that satisfies all concerned.

If, after their investigation nothing new was discovered then they could of come out publicly saying they have investigated the matter and deny the claims but are willing to co-operate with any 3rd party investigations. By not holding their own investigation it eludes to 2 things - Either they did have an investigation and thought they were too dangerous to reveal OR they showed no respect to Fevola by simply accepting the rumors and putting him up for trade.

It appears Fevolas reputation proceeded him, with a bad record like his it seems they just assumed he was guilty of "assault" without even speak to him directly.


If i rang up Carlton tomorrow and said I saw Chris Judd breaking into my car, you had better beleive they would at least enquire about his where abouts just to ensure it is a baseless claim, and baseless is exactly what these allegations regarding Fevola are at the moment.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Whether or not he assaulted a female reporter perhaps?

And if he did, what then? Sack him perhaps? Who would we find that information out from by the way? No cameras, only HUN saying so. Do we beat a confession out of Fev?

These things are one persons word against another if you do not see it first hand and in this case, the one person who experienced it first hand isn't talking. Do we beat an admission out of her perhaps?

I am perplexed.

I investigate for a living. All I can do is to ask questions of people who I know to have been there at the time. People have to cooperate with me however, but do you think Carlton should have gone to every Brownlow guest they could think of and ask if they remembered anything? And then what? Take action against him ... like sacking?

I feel like I am on a merry go round. Carlton should only investigate in order to be able to take the appropriate action against a player, not to gain a criminal conviction, it simply is not their job and the police would frown on it. In this case, Carlton said 'hang the investigation, we feel he has done enough to be turfed out regardless' and took the harshest penalty available to them. Given he was in contract though, we also did what was best for us and avoided a payout by trading him.

 

[The Big League]

Because a complaint was not made. No complaint was made to us either, just an allegation that something happened. Did you want us to pretend we were crime investigators?

Right, and they were told at the same time as us. In fact the HUN now say they told ALL interested parties. I would assume a potential trade partner would be included in that.

Correct.

Wait, do you think we just assumed that this one was true and sacked him because of it? Don't you think he deserved to be sacked based on his drunken night? What about the dozens of other unsavoury incidents coming out of the night? What if he did flash at Twigley and tell her to 'take it orally' as has been rumoured. Pretty sure they could find that out fairly easily. They could have acted on several incidents that they could substantiate plus this one that the HUN were privately waving around.

It now seems like you are saying that we should have investigated to try and exonerate Fev.

Carlton fined him $10,000 after view the footage and banned him from the B&F. If they knew straight away they were going to trade him why fine him at all?
It appears they were only going to fine him because as sticks said they didn't form their own investigation. So, it's only after new rumors emerged that he was put on the table, rumors that are nothing but gossip at this stage. Why the change of heart from a fine, to being put on the draft table if they never held an investigation?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Honestly, they should of had an internal investigation. If they did uncover something untoward then they should of contacted all involved privately and inquired as to what the best resolution would be that satisfies all concerned.

If, after their investigation nothing new was discovered then they could of come out publicly saying they have investigated the matter and deny the claims but are willing to co-operate with any 3rd party investigations. By not holding their own investigation it eludes to 2 things - Either they did have an investigation and thought they were too dangerous to reveal OR they showed no respect to Fevola by simply accepting the rumors and putting him up for trade.

It appears Fevolas reputation proceeded him, with a bad record like his it seems they just assumed he was guilty of "assault" without even speak to him directly.


If i rang up Carlton tomorrow and said I saw Chris Judd breaking into my car, you had better beleive they would at least enquire about his where abouts just to ensure it is a baseless claim, and baseless is exactly what these allegations regarding Fevola are at the moment.

They didn't need to assume anything or respect Fev at all. He had done enough to warrant being turfed, whether this was true or not. It was a easy answer, take the harshest penalty and apply it. Are you saying that they should have accepted the other poor behaviour that was verifiable if they couldn't substantiate the sexual assault?

He was gone either way.

 

[Monkey King]

8. Do you recall it taking days before Carlton decided what action to take? Is it unreasonable to think that Carlton asked the rest of their present employees if they saw anything? Who else should they have asked?

Brendon? I heard Ratten say today he hadn't heard from Brendon since Brownlow night. Sticks also elluded to something similar, im not sure if he has had any contact at all with the club since it happened.

Nah! Sticks met with Fev after the Brownlow fiasco. They discussed what went on. This is what Fev had to offer: -

"I said to them yesterday I have absolutely no idea, so... I think you get like that when you have way too many," he said.

"I can’t remember anything pretty much, but yeah." Link


For mine the Blues had decided Fev was well and truly gone. Once that decision was made, any investigations into alleged incidents was not the club's responsibility; and any investigation by the club would have been both needless and irrelevant.