Rumour Sledging

[Run n Spread]

I was reading before to an old speech where an ex player was sledged with reference to his late father dying.
There has been also alleged sledging with players mothers sisters marriage breakdowns and family illnesses been mentioned and no punishment has occured because some random line exists.
So say the most disgusting things imaginable and it's play on.
Yet call someone a ****** ( to players aren't even gay) and a media lynch mob are out and it's 5 weeks.
Can someone explain what the rules are or what this mythical line is?
Whole things a joke.
Have a vilification law like the racial vilification law or don't bother.
This grandstanding is tiresome

 

[frggr]

I was reading before to an old speech where an ex player was sledged with reference to his late father dying.
There has been also alleged sledging with players mothers sisters marriage breakdowns and family illnesses been mentioned and no punishment has occured because some random line exists.
So say the most disgusting things imaginable and it's play on.
Yet call someone a ****** ( to players aren't even gay) and a media lynch mob are out and it's 5 weeks.
Can someone explain what the rules are or what this mythical line is?
Whole things a joke.
Have a vilification law like the racial vilification law or don't bother.
This grandstanding is tiresome

Imagine my surprise in seeing you support Collingwood.

But, so this is a learning experience - personal sledges are quite different to using language that vilifies and targets a whole section of minority communities based on characteristics they were born with.

Do you say the same thing about players banned for being racist?

to players aren't even gay

This misses the point entirely. Using a slur for "gay" people against a non-gay person (and how do you know the target isn't gay?) doesn't make it any less harmful. In fact, it makes it more harmful. It's effectively saying "I think less of you, so much so that I think you're <member of a minority community>".

In the famous words of the Collingwood report - Do Better, Run n Spread

 

[Run n Spread]

Imagine my surprise in seeing you support Collingwood.

But, so this is a learning experience - personal sledges are quite different to using language that vilifies and targets a whole section of minority communities based on characteristics they were born with.

Do you say the same thing about players banned for being racist?



This misses the point entirely. Using a slur for "gay" people against a non-gay person (and how do you know the target isn't gay?) doesn't make it any less harmful. In fact, it makes it more harmful. It's effectively saying "I think less of you, so much so that I think you're <member of a minority community>".

In the famous words of the Collingwood report - Do Better, Run n Spread

Way to miss the point.
Of course gay racial any sledges are disgraceful.
But there seems to be different rules at play.
Why wasn't Patrick Voss suspended for 5 weeks for his sledge against Harrison Petty who was originally sledged about his mother who he apparently sledged an opponent about a marriage breakdown. Yet no penalty was ever given.
It seems the AFL want to keep personal abuse as "part of the sport" but only certain groups are fair game.
Just have a personal vilification code same as any other sphere of society = problem solved.
Or does everyone want to keep personal abuse as part of the game?
So should personal abuse be part of the game?

 

[frggr]

Way to miss the point.
Of course gay racial any sledges are disgraceful.
But there seems to be different rules at play.
Why wasn't Patrick Voss suspended for 5 weeks for his sledge against Harrison Petty who was originally sledged about his mother who he apparently sledged about a marriage breakdown.
It seems the AFL want to keep personal abuse as "part of the sport" but only certain groups are fair game.
Just have a personal vilification code same as any other sphere of society = problem solved.
Or does everyone want to keep personal abuse as part of the game?

Because personal sledges are entirely different. They are directed at the person in question and their immediate family, not entirely swathes of persecuted minorities within the community.

It seems the AFL want to keep personal abuse as "part of the sport" but only certain groups are fair game.

Player's mothers aren't a "group" that's protected by vilification laws. It's not that complicated.

 

[Run n Spread]

Because personal sledges are entirely different. They are directed at the person in question and their immediate family, not entirely swathes of persecuted minorities within the community.



Player's mothers aren't a "group" that's protected by vilification laws. It's not that complicated.

Exactly it isn't that complicated.
Should personal abuse and vilification be part of the game?
Yes or no?
And if yes who determines what groups are exempt?
You seem to be arguing yes. So who gets abused and who doesn't? Im interested to hear your response

 

[frggr]

Exactly it isn't that complicated.
Should personal abuse and vilification be part of the game?
Yes or no?
And if yes who determines what groups are exempt?
You seem to be arguing yes. So who gets abused and who doesn't? Im interested to hear your response

Personal abuse and vilification aren't the same thing. They're not even close.

The AFL care about covering their arses.

If they, as employers, allowed players to racially or otherwise vilify others in the workplace, they'd be up shit creek on a number of fronts.

Personally, I think a bit of intelligent sledging brings theatre to the game, as it does in cricket. It also adds a psychological edge.

How would they police it anyway? Are many players going to whine to the AFL that somebody called their mum fat?

What happens when one Voss brother says to the other Voss brother "my dad rooted your mum"

Does he get in trouble?

What if a hulking full forward tells a first game defender he's going to break his spine in two if he gets in the way? How's that policed?

Seems to me the right balance is currently in place - vilify someone and cop weeks. Make a crack about somebody's personal situation and it's play on, even if distasteful to sensitive supporters.

 

[Jootube]

A lot of mental gymnastics going on in this thread...

 

[Run n Spread]

Personal abuse and vilification aren't the same thing. They're not even close.

The AFL care about covering their arses.

If they, as employers, allowed players to racially or otherwise vilify others in the workplace, they'd be up shit creek on a number of fronts.

Personally, I think a bit of intelligent sledging brings theatre to the game, as it does in cricket. It also adds a psychological edge.

How would they police it anyway? Are many players going to whine to the AFL that somebody called their mum fat?

What happens when one Voss brother says to the other Voss brother "my dad rooted your mum"

Does he get in trouble?

What if a hulking full forward tells a first game defender he's going to break his spine in two if he gets in the way? How's that policed?

Seems to me the right balance is currently in place - vilify someone and cop weeks. Make a crack about somebody's personal situation and it's play on, even if distasteful to sensitive supporters.

How is it policed?
Same way a random nonsensical throw away line calling someone a ****** in a melle is. With which there is a current investigation.
If any employer admitted they stood around and did nothing while an employee was vilified they'd be up shit creek.Yet you argue personal abuse is ok in a certain context which is blatantly ridiculous
Either allow it all or have a clear code of conduct with clear rules and penalties applied.

 

[jwikked]

Seems to me the right balance is currently in place - vilify someone and cop weeks. Make a crack about somebody's personal situation and it's play on, even if distasteful to sensitive supporters.

Aka “be as vile, hateful and disrespectful all you want. Just don’t say a 3 letter word”.


Completely insane take.

 

[frggr]

Aka “be as vile, hateful and disrespectful all you want. Just don’t say a 3 letter word”.


Completely insane take.

What's insane about it?

A few people here have trouble differentiating between vilification and poor taste.

Just don’t say a 3 letter word”.

Just don't say a 3 letter word that has been used as a derogatory term for people of certain sexual orientations for years - or are you referring to another 3 letter word used to refer to indigenous people?

 

[frggr]

How is it policed?
Same way a random nonsensical throw away line calling someone a ****** in a melle is. With which there is a current investigation.
If any employer admitted they stood around and did nothing while an employee was vilified they'd be up shit creek.Yet you argue personal abuse is ok in a certain context which is blatantly ridiculous
Either allow it all or have a clear code of conduct with clear rules and penalties applied.

Right, so does Brother Voss cop a fine?

Does "Your mum is fat" get a week?

Would any player actually report that sort of incident?

Same way a random nonsensical throw away line calling someone a ****** in a melle is.

Same way somebody vilifying an at-risk group is......right....

If any employer admitted they stood around and did nothing while an employee was vilified they'd be up shit creek.Yet you argue personal abuse is ok in a certain context which is blatantly ridiculous

Yes, because vilification is illegal. Making a comment about someone's divorce isn't.

Either allow it all or have a clear code of conduct with clear rules and penalties applied.

Either allow players to break the law on the field by vilifying racial and other groups, or have clear rules and penalties for something that's impossible to have clear rules about.

 

[jwikked]

What's insane about it?

A few people here have trouble differentiating between vilification and poor taste.

One is a word that gets used as a throwaway insult, which won’t bother 99% of people hearing it. The other is targeted harassment being delivered with the intent to hurt the person they’re aiming it towards. By weaponising very real private issues and broadcasting them on the football field.

Players have been taunted over crippling gambling debts. They’ve been taunted over the partners having sex with other players. Over parents dying.

But you only care if a specific 3 letter word gets used?
Context matters, and it’s crazy you think the 3 letter word is worse

 

[frggr]

Why can people make fun of me on BigFooty but nobody can call me <racist term> or <derogatory term for people of a certain sexual orientation>?

 

[txbyhull]

This thread shows exactly why we are a long way away from an active gay or bisexual player lol

 

[frggr]

"Umpire, umpire! He said my dad was unfaithful to my mum!"

 

[Run n Spread]

Right, so does Brother Voss cop a fine?

Does "Your mum is fat" get a week?

Would any player actually report that sort of incident?



Same way somebody vilifying an at-risk group is......right....



Yes, because vilification is illegal. Making a comment about someone's divorce isn't.



Either allow players to break the law on the field by vilifying racial and other groups, or have clear rules and penalties for something that's impossible to have clear rules about.

All gets a week then. Fine. If ****** is offensive than so is everything.
Im seriously not understanding how some personal abuse is allowed and others isn't
Players should just shut the **** up and play.

 

[T2B_]

All gets a week then. Fine. If ****** is offensive than so is everything.
Im seriously not understanding how some personal abuse is allowed and others isn't
Players should just shut the **** up and play.

If you don't understand it there's really no helping you.

Or you just like the idea of people being free to discriminate.

 

[txbyhull]

All gets a week then. Fine. If ****** is offensive than so is everything.
Im seriously not understanding how some personal abuse is allowed and others isn't
Players should just shut the **** up and play.

This screams "if they can say the n word then why can't I"

 

[jwikked]

If you don't understand it there's really no helping you.

Or you just like the idea of people being free to discriminate.

Nobody is getting discriminated against lol

 

[frggr]

One is a word that gets used as a throwaway insult, which won’t bother 99% of people hearing it. The other is targeted harassment being delivered with the intent to hurt the person they’re aiming it towards. By weaponising very real private issues and broadcasting them on the football field.

Players have been taunted over crippling gambling debts. They’ve been taunted over the partners having sex with other players. Over parents dying.

But you only care if a specific 3 letter word gets used?
Context matters, and it’s crazy you think the 3 letter word is worse

One is a word that gets used as a throwaway insult, which won’t bother 99% of people hearing it.

It just bothers the communities that it's directed at and the people that care about members of those communities.

Never mind that it's been used to target and harass individuals over the years alongside threats of violence and actual violence that still takes place in the community today.

Average of 20 gay men bashed every day for over 40 years, NSW inquiry told

‘Perpetrators were given a kind of social licence to continue inflicting violence’, assistant police commissioner says

www.theguardian.com

‘Pedo hunts’: Gay-bashing teen gangs in wave of Sydney attacks

The teenagers are luring men to public parks before bashing, robbing and filming their victims for social media in a shocking revival of Sydney’s gay hate era.

www.smh.com.au

Out of Sight: The untold story of Adelaide’s gay-hate murders

For decades, gay bashers operated with impunity. Sometimes, they killed their victims. The police often didn't care. Sometimes, they were said to be doing the bashing. A culture of indifference meant the bodies piled up as the world looked the other way. Mark Whittaker reports from Adelaide's…

www.sbs.com.au

LGBTQIA+ teens bashed and filmed in IS-inspired Sydney attacks

An ABC investigation has obtained distressing videos and victims' accounts of IS sympathisers hunting and bashing gay and bisexual boys on camera in Sydney.

www.abc.net.au

 

[txbyhull]

Nobody is getting discriminated against lol

It's inherent. If I used a slur as an insult to someone that it doesn't imply to, it is saying I think lower of that group of people because I am lumping you in with them.

How can you not see that?

 

[Run n Spread]

If you don't understand it there's really no helping you.

Or you just like the idea of people being free to discriminate.

Certainly not. I don't like the idea of personal abuse being fair game.
Or if ones allowed why not all. Make up your mind

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Im seriously not understanding how some personal abuse is allowed and others isn't

I don't understand why, frggr has explained it very clearly. Abuse that vilifies an entire group on the basis of race, religion, or sexuality is not allowed. It is hate speech. Abuse that is personal without vilifying such groups is not vilification, and while tasteless or possibly bringing the game into disrepute, is not specifically barred as vilification.

 

[Run n Spread]

This screams "if they can say the n word then why can't I"

That makes no sense

 

[frggr]

Certainly not. I don't like the idea of personal abuse being fair game.
Or if ones allowed why not all. Make up your mind

Because you're lumping "I hear your ex-girlfriend has found someone new" with "I think you're non-human and below me" together.