Analysis Small - Medium Opposition Forwards

[Scham]

It's been somewhat of a problem over the last two years but I think it could be about to significantly get worse.

Last week Hartigan carved up Peels defence with it manned almost entirely by Freo players. This week it was Peake and Simpson who were East Freo's top goal scorers, and then of course today it was Stringer and an absolute host of other smalls that provided the Dogs with the most of their scoring. In fact only 2 goals came from talls, 1 to Roughead and 1 to Boyd.

We tried Mzungu, Clancee, Hill, Sheridan, Suttcliffe, Ibbo and Spurr down there today and none of them were able to shut down an opponent.

Is the problem further up the field or are the opposition exploiting us in this area?

 

[MadDocker]

Both. Midfielders are letting the ball come in way to easily, but, we don't have a specialist small defender that can go with the best of them.

Spurr does a reasonable job and when the midfield is cranking, the team defense works well. Soon as the pressure is off though, we get torn a new one.

 

[Lach72]

Midfield got its arse handed to it. Ball was coming in left right and centre.
Johnson can actually play tall and small and I think Ethan Hughes will do this job. Darcy Tucker could also do the job...

 

[rodney hoo]

Midfield got its arse handed to it. Ball was coming in left right and centre.
Johnson can actually play tall and small and I think Ethan Hughes will do this job. Darcy Tucker could also do the job...

I no everyone thinks Ethan is the one but his disposal needs a lot of work on games I've seen live.

 

[Lach72]

I no everyone thinks Ethan is the one but his disposal needs a lot of work on games I've seen live.

I think the issues he has are overstated

 

[MadDocker]

I know the pic of him taking a mark against the EF player in the Sunday Times today is a ripper.

The face and posture of the EF player is quality. I'm sure his mates sent that one straight to the pool room.

 

[rodney hoo]

I think the issues he has are overstated

He's young so should improve but certainly last season the ball out defence or into the fifty quite often I would look to see who kicked the bad kick and it was Ethan, a lot worse than ballard was IMO.

 

[Docker82]

It all starts with the midfield. Today's effort wasn't good enough. Spurr would actually be one of the best in the business as a small defender (defending only) based off last year's form. Stringer destroyed us today because he's too big and strong for anyone who wasn't Dawson and too nimble for Dawson but if he didn't get the ball coming in non stop due to our midfield not showing up he wouldn't have been as much of a problem.

 

[schnoods]

Midfield with quick transition carves up our defence. Our zone defence is exposed regularly since 2013.

Our manic pressure and locking the ball in style is compromised with open space and time.

Op is spot on. We really need to take a look defensively and see where we can fill some holes. They only good decision was not playing Silvagni, we would've leaked even more goals

 

[DudleyDocker]

Too many of our games now are played in our defensive 50 because we have no working plan to get it out, and when we do we turn it over.

Our small forwards used to look dangerous back in the days when they got to see the ball once in a while.

Again, for me it's not a personnel issue, our weaknesses in game style are being highlighted by rule changes and exploited by teams with the courage to attack.

 

[wehavethepassion]

Too many of our games now are played in our defensive 50 because we have no working plan to get it out, and when we do we turn it over.

Our small forwards used to look dangerous back in the days when they got to see the ball once in a while.

Again, for me it's not a personnel issue, our weaknesses in game style are being highlighted by rule changes and exploited by teams with the courage to attack.

Sides that have quick ball movement by running the ball or by effective foot skills will be in top 4 in 2016 - we lack both.

 

[DudleyDocker]

Sides that have quick ball movement by running the ball or by effective foot skills will be in top 4 in 2016 - we lack both.

Agree we have some in the list with poor skills, but we have time to sort that out and we have depth in the seconds who have shown they have good skills (just not last week!). If we can change up the plan, get the guys into space with a bit of time you will see that our skills are nowhere near as bad as they seem at the moment.

I say again, read the Eagles thread from two years ago and they were all saying the exact same things - no pace, no skills, no chance. They have adopted an attacking, fearless game plan and the guys who couldn't hit a target now find themselves with the time and the targets to allow them to execute the skills they always had. Only the very elite can execute clean skills in a high pressure situation. Unfortunately Hawks have more than their share of these, but I think we will work to develop our own.

 

[meima]

Sides that have quick ball movement by running the ball or by effective foot skills will be in top 4 in 2016 - we lack both.

One thing I saw yesterday between cats vs hawthorn is both team try to run at each other even they get caught holding the ball.by saying that I not asking suban and d.Pearce to do so .

 

[DudleyDocker]

One thing I saw yesterday between cats vs hawthorn is both team try to run at each other even they get caught holding the ball.

Exactly meima, and that is what I call football courage. Not the courage of putting your head over the ball, or shirtfronting someone, but the courage to take on an opponent and beat him - even if it means you might get caught and look stupid. Once you have beaten your man, it effectively gives your team an extra man and allows you to open up the field for quick transition. If you can't beat the press with a pinpoint 50 - 60 metre kick, you have to do it by running the ball through the press.

Passing the ball backwards or sideways just tightens the noose for the guy receiving the ball - the exact opposite of the above. That is why I fume when people criticize Sheridan for a spilled mark from a backwards kick across the goals with Rioli right in the vicinity. Ball should never have gone there in the first place!

 

[meima]

Exactly meima, and that is what I call football courage. Not the courage of putting your head over the ball, or shirtfronting someone, but the courage to take on an opponent and beat him - even if it means you might get caught and look stupid. Once you have beaten your man, it effectively gives your team an extra man and allows you to open up the field for quick transition. If you can't beat the press with a pinpoint 50 - 60 metre kick, you have to do it by running the ball through the press.

Passing the ball backwards or sideways just tightens the noose for the guy receiving the ball - the exact opposite of the above. That is why I fume when people criticize Sheridan for a spilled mark from a backwards kick across the goals with Rioli right in the vicinity. Ball should never have gone there in the first place!

I think freo get a bit shock that when WB kick badly and turn over all the younger player just run at them and get back the ball. Is like freo vs Sydney in 2013 but WB applied the pressure for 4 quater . all the team analyst Ross game style already but they invent their own style with some ross idea. I don't think hawthorn can get 4 flag. This is their mini rebuild year.

 

[rodney hoo]

Passing the ball backwards or sideways just tightens the noose for the guy receiving the ball - the exact opposite of the above. That is why I fume when people criticize Sheridan for a spilled mark from a backwards kick across the goals with Rioli right in the vicinity. Ball should never have gone there in the first place!

I was at a training session late last season and the exact senerio took place, defender in the middle of the park with a man in close proximity with play stop with a mark on the defensive wing. The player who marked the ball looked inside saw a defender close. What I thought was a smart option and kicked down the wing, Ross stopped play made the player who kicked down the wing and the defender who he believed the ball should've gone to run a lap. I remembered it clearly in the loss to hawthorn. It looks like they are under instruction.
Hawks get away with this at times because of their superior skills but even yesterday they paid for it late in the game when cats put the pressure on with turn overs that led to cats goals.

 

[DudleyDocker]

I was at a training session late last season and the exact senerio took place, defender in the middle of the park with a man in close proximity with play stop with a mark on the defensive wing. The player who marked the ball looked inside saw a defender close. What I thought was a smart option and kicked down the wing, Ross stopped play made the player who kicked down the wing and the defender who he believed the ball should've gone to run a lap. I remembered it clearly in the loss to hawthorn. It looks like they are under instruction.
Hawks get away with this at times because of their superior skills but even yesterday they paid for it late in the game when cats put the pressure on with turn overs that led to cats goals.

I have also seen it a training - just never understood it. It will only ever work if done instinctively and immediately. As soon as you hesitate the defense can move up and close down the space.

 

[believe_it]

I have watched the game replay twice keen to understand what exactly went wrong. Clearly there were many skill errors , stupid free kicks given away and a relative lack of tackling pressure compared to the dogs. However I have come to the conclusion that the main problem wasn't the players it is our game plan.

Dunstall commented that Freo appear to be playing too defensively. This is something I noticed last year also. What i saw were large numbers of players congregating in the defensive 50 but without any real spread. This caused severe congestion problems which makes clearing the ball very difficult. Quite a few times hack kicks out of the area were attempted, but all this really achieved was to send the ball into an area around the 50m mark where dogs players were outnumbering us 2 or 3 to one.

The problems don't end here though. This deep defense severely hinders avenues between defense and attack. When players could run the ball out of defense there was effectively nowhere to go because most team-mates were behind them. Paradoxically at times we had the ball in defense and everybody seemed to have buggered off up the ground more than a kick away so again any link was broken.

Clearly Lyons tactics have worked better in the past. However with the players being improperly prepared for the game the weakness of the tactics have been thoroughly exposed in the resultant 5.8 scoreline.

When I watched the game replay for the second time what I became aware of how well the Bulldogs are drilled. The have planned strategies for defense, attack, stoppages and a zoning that always pushed us wide where our skill errors and lack of accountability resulted in turnovers. In comparison we appeared to have few pre-planned strategies - it just seems so random.

 

[wayToGo_]

Paradoxically at times we had the ball in defense and everybody seemed to have buggered off up the ground more than a kick away so again any link was broken.

My favourite sentence of the season so far, thanks!

 

[DudleyDocker]

My favourite sentence of the season so far, thanks!

Any sentence including the word paradoxically has to be up there.

 

[wayToGo_]

Any sentence including the word paradoxically has to be up there.

Only if it used correctly It sums up exactly our problems with ball movement (which imo is the cause of of all our problems). Our players are either all too close too each other or all too far away.

Perhaps what we really need is an attacking version of the Eagles 'web'. Where our entire team moves down field to our forward line in attacking formation and at an effective distance from each other Only semi-joking.

 

[Nothing]

The flying V

 

[Big Animal]

I was at a training session late last season and the exact senerio took place, defender in the middle of the park with a man in close proximity with play stop with a mark on the defensive wing. The player who marked the ball looked inside saw a defender close. What I thought was a smart option and kicked down the wing, Ross stopped play made the player who kicked down the wing and the defender who he believed the ball should've gone to run a lap. I remembered it clearly in the loss to hawthorn. It looks like they are under instruction.
Hawks get away with this at times because of their superior skills but even yesterday they paid for it late in the game when cats put the pressure on with turn overs that led to cats goals.

Seriously? Now I understand what went wrong in the Sheridan dropped mark scandal in last year's lost final. While many were pissed at Sheridan for dropping the mark, I was going mental at Sandi who had a free kick on the boundary and instead of kicking it forward to at least a contest and our mids in the area, handballed it back to a wide-eyed Gu (may have been Sutty) who certainly didn't want it, who then, with even less options than Sandi had and far less time, sent it across to Sheridan for the Rioli pressure steal and goal. I nearly beat my TV to death after that and Sandi's ears would have been bleeding if he was nearby. Didn't realise it was under instruction from the coaches (WTF) so here is my public apology to Sandipants. sorry.

 

[Lach72]

There was no issue with the kick.
Sheridan shat the bed

 

[beetz]

There was no issue with the kick.
Sheridan shat the bed

Bit unfair to place the blame on him. It all started in the first quarter when we flew out of the blocks and busted our arses off to get a lead only to have 2 very soft 50s and free kicks paid against which gifted 2 goals. That will mentally deflate any team.