So angry.

[Knowledge]

Check it. I go to crown tonight to play some poker.
1/2 no limit 60 buy in.

Sit down play a few hands not much happening, down to about 40-45 dollars.
I hit pocket jacks. I'm thinkin, fair enough. I raise 15 before the flop. Guy opposite me re-raise and puts me all in. So I think, I think, but i just cannot pass up the opportunity with my pocket jacks. I for one thought he was bluffing.

Turns over his cards, what does he have? Pocket queens.
Son of a ********ing bitch.

Having said that I knew, I just knew i was going to get beaten with those pocket jacks. Deep down, I knew it. Couldn't bring myself to fold the hand.

 

[cameroon]

Never raise with pockets (except A's or K's) just limp in and if you dont flop it (and dont have overpair) fold it. Save you from alot of beats like this.

 

[Borgsta]

Never raise with pockets (except A's or K's) just limp in and if you dont flop it (and dont have overpair) fold it. Save you from alot of beats like this.

Thats crazy, you gotta raise to get rid of ppl. If you let everyone hit the flop then you will almost always lose. Ya just gotta learn to throw away good cards, which is probably the hardest thing in poker.

 

[DoubleA]

Never raise with pockets (except A's or K's) just limp in and if you dont flop it (and dont have overpair) fold it. Save you from alot of beats like this.

You're an idiot.

 

[Crosby87]

I would have probably dumped to the re-raise, but it depends on how the guy has been playing.

Having said that I knew, I just knew i was going to get beaten with those pocket jacks. Deep down, I knew it. Couldn't bring myself to fold the hand.

You should always trust your first instinct. You knew you were going to go broke - so you should have waited for a better spot. You have to consider the cards he's moving in with (AA, KK, QQ - probably not AK unless he's a bad player) and decide whether or not you feel comfortable hitting one of two Jacks. But again, it comes down to knowing the player/

As far as not raising with Jacks goes - I understand that, based on certain situations. I will flat call in position sometimes with Jacks if I'm playing at low limits with idiots who are likely to be in the pot with any hand. It's not a bad strategy - if you hit a Jack on the flop, or undercards (which you're looking for with Jacks) you will likely break someone, but can easily get away from the hand if overcards hit.

I'm not saying I play like that all the time (definitely not), but it depends on what the table is giving me. If the table is full of bad players and you're getting three-four callers, it's a good strategy to employ. If people are calling your raises anyway, it's better to save yourself a bet pre-flop, and lead into the flop, and dump to a raise (eg. just call pre-flop, bet small on the flop). But if the table is tight and weak, I'd raise it up with any cards, let alone J-J.

I understand where he's coming from... sorta - but he's incorrect in NEVER playing anything other than AA or KK like this. That's far too tight.

 

[Ricketts]

Never raise with pockets (except A's or K's) just limp in and if you dont flop it (and dont have overpair) fold it. Save you from alot of beats like this.

Okay let's let the guy with the 7/2-off in for free from the big blind and then a flop of 7-2-x.

 

[Daytripper]

Never raise with pockets (except A's or K's) just limp in and if you dont flop it (and dont have overpair) fold it. Save you from alot of beats like this.

Wherer do you play poker and can I get an invite to your next game ?

 

[Crosby87]

Wherer do you play poker and can I get an invite to your next game ?

Lol, playing his strategy, he can't lose unless he's blinded off (only betting the nuts).

 

[Borgsta]

Lol, playing his strategy, he can't lose unless he's blinded off (only betting the nuts).

He also cant win. That type of player is my fav. They bet you fold, but it only happens once every 50 hands.

 

[skipper kelly]

Never raise with pockets (except A's or K's) just limp in and if you dont flop it (and dont have overpair) fold it. Save you from alot of beats like this.

This can be an OK strategy at times, but it depends on the table and how you and others have played previously. Basically being consistently inconsistent can be good poker.

 

[Crosby87]

He also cant win.

Hit the nail on the head. I just got done playing a total ********ing rock for almost a damn hour heads up at the end of a sit and go.

So I get Kings, and decide to stop raising his blind, and call. He raises me, and I just call. Flop comes 6-9-7 diamonds. He bets, and almost out of frustration I put him in. He has a set of nines. In retrospect, I should have just raised three times the bet and dumped to his re-raise, but I'll take second over playing until the blinds are so high it that it becomes craps, anyday.

 

[Knowledge]

WEnt again tonight. Was down to 20 bucks or so. Folding queens 8 and queens 9. Really really awiting for the right hands. Won 3-4 hands in a row. Ended up getting something like 2xFullhouses and 3 of a kind A's that I won with a kicker.

Ended up 300 up.

so i guess it evens eachother out

 

[sante]

Never raise with pockets (except A's or K's) just limp in and if you dont flop it (and dont have overpair) fold it. Save you from alot of beats like this.

LMAO, no wonder you think you there are so many bad beats when getting hands like QQ/JJ You have to raise before flop when getting those cards you fool

 

[Carefree-Rob]

Having read Kill Phil, the way I used to play pockets and how I play them now has changed heaps.

Previously I tried to get in cheap and if I hit something, go nuts but the amount of times I needed to hit a card to start breaking even by playing like this ended up hurting me.

Now, playing my tight-aggressive (maniac if you may say) game I usually go all in pre flop with pocket AA, KK, AK, QQ and JJ TT depending on my position and reads (one time I folded QQ after being re-raised only to see the person next to me fold KK and what a feeling), and if I am Late position or small blind, big blind. But I try and mix it up. (If the cards are the same colour, I will go all in, other wise it will be 1/6 of my stack or 6 x the BB for example.) It’s turned out to be a successful strategy also. It can frustrate players which somewhat a key to my game style and if I can force errors I will scoop up big (like sometimes you will hit monster hands back to back and someone will call you with a hand that is usually outside there calling range) and yet when I raise a smaller sum it forces out lower cards and if I see a flop that I like I can maximise my returns instantly by moving all in if I know there is no chance of a straight or a flush.

Good players also have to be willing to risk their chips at any time and by taking the blinds right away I find I that I end up making the same amount as if I would by slow playing pockets and then winning some big pots and losing some others.

Knowing this, I have a reputation for this so when blinds get worth something I can go all in pre flop, and this is key to me scooping up pots.

I also seem to get very lucky playing like this because I do not chicken out of pots, and I hit a lot of turns and rivers in situations I would otherwise fold.

 

[red+black]

I like the mixing up your play such as when a pair is the same color. It's this kind of game theory that I have been looking into, so much so that I have been investigating what if any post-grad studies I could so to help my poker (economics, maths, stats, etc). The 2+2 internet mag has had some interesting game theory articles.

 

[Crosby87]

I don't know if I would recommend playing the Kill Phil strategy all the time. I heard an interview with Blair Rodman earlier in the year, and he said it was just a strategy to counter aggressive players in tournaments (thus Kill Phil [Ivey, Hellmuth etc]). I haven't read the book, but if the style works for you, go with it.

The problem with the strategy is, however, is that good players will switch gears. You won't get me on tilt enough to call you with a bad hand. I'm not going to risk my chips just because you want to take the blinds. I'll call you with Aces or Kings, and if you get lucky, you get lucky... or I'll put you to the test.

Basically, from what I know of the strategy, it's meant to teach novices how to come over the top of aggressive pros pushing them around in tournaments. But, I just don't see why you can't do that, anyway, without doing anything crazy like moving all-in all the time. If someone is pushing me around, I'll come over the top of them from time to time, but I'm not going to instantly move all-in on the flop every time when I have a hand, I'm going to play poker.

 

[Carefree-Rob]

I don't know if I would recommend playing the Kill Phil strategy all the time. I heard an interview with Blair Rodman earlier in the year, and he said it was just a strategy to counter aggressive players in tournaments (thus Kill Phil [Ivey, Hellmuth etc]). I haven't read the book, but if the style works for you, go with it.

The problem with the strategy is, however, is that good players will switch gears. You won't get me on tilt enough to call you with a bad hand. I'm not going to risk my chips just because you want to take the blinds. I'll call you with Aces or Kings, and if you get lucky, you get lucky... or I'll put you to the test.

Basically, from what I know of the strategy, it's meant to teach novices how to come over the top of aggressive pros pushing them around in tournaments. But, I just don't see why you can't do that, anyway, without doing anything crazy like moving all-in all the time. If someone is pushing me around, I'll come over the top of them from time to time, but I'm not going to instantly move all-in on the flop every time when I have a hand, I'm going to play poker.

I understand what you are saying 100%.

Its just one of the ways I look at playing pockets. Its influenced my game however heaps and made it much better.

Fact is, for you to have AA vs my KK if I were to call in would just be unlucky because I wouldnt be making an incorrect play by playing that hand the way described.

And your comment on the KP game, I agree with. It has influenced my game however and its one of my gears also, and I am trying to develop ultra loose gears and standard-tight aggressive ones, etc, trying to define my game in many areas, and this is my Ultra-tight, maniac style gear.

 

[Crosby87]

Yeah, definitely. It's a good "gear" to have, and that's why they wrote the book. But I would definitely change gears from time to time, as playing such a maniac style can get you busted quite quickly if you make a bad read.

 

[Glenno23]

Angry, hows this:

playing structured at Burswood last night had A4. 10 bucks to call. so i go in

flop comes 4-K-4. looking good.

lots of bets and raises. about 5 or 6 in at this stage.

turn: 10. still ok unless someone has pocket K's or 10's. more bets and raises.

river: 10. have a full book, but am worried by someone having a 10. i check then call.

a guy at the end has 10-5 off suit and beat me and another guy who the other 4. on the river. he was betting on nothing on the flop, only 2 pair at the turn and then hit the full book on the river. a good player would have folded after the flop and it was well over a $500 pot.

same guy had pocket K's a few hands later. there was an A out there on the flop. bets all the way and K on the river. not as bad as the other hand but still annoying.