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Spineless wonder

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medusala

medusala

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http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11794858%5E2702,00.html


Howard rejects top-rate tax cuts
Brad Norington
December 28, 2004
PRIME Minister John Howard has poured cold water on the urgings of influential Coalition MPs who want him to significantly reduce the top marginal tax rate.

He should be thoroughly ashamed of himself, he isnt fit to lead the party that Menzies founded. Senate control and this is the best he can come up with. A pathetic joke, becoming more like Fraser by the day. Closet socialist. May as well as have Fred Nile as PM.

How long before the average earner has half his money stolen by the govt?

No wonder so many Australians dodge tax, head os or bludge on welfare.

For those of you who try and rate this chap as Australia's best ever pm you need to have a very hard look at yourself.
 
The gutlesss wonder rodent PM we have only worries about how he can keep his wife "Mrs Bucket" Jeanette in the comfort of Kirribilli House in Sydney.
He's never given a stuff really about the people that stupidily keep putting there.
 
MightyFighting said:
What's the matter, medusala? Is the most right-wing government in Australia's history not right-wing enough for you? :cool:

There's just no pleasing some people.
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Well under Menzies (and a few others) there was White Australia, no land rights, no politically correct crxp, much less welfare, no capital gains tax, no consumption tax, no medicare levy, God Save the Queen as the national anthem etc etc etc.

Hardly makes Howard the most right wing pm in Australian history in my book.
 

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I'm judging right-wingness by his relation to the times themselves.

Menzies was a man of his time, Howard is a man of Menzies's time.

(Don't forget, Menzies was instrumental in the aborigees getting citizenship.)
 
medusala said:
Well under Menzies (and a few others) there was White Australia, no land rights, no politically correct crxp, much less welfare, no capital gains tax, no consumption tax, no medicare levy, God Save the Queen as the national anthem etc etc etc.

Hardly makes Howard the most right wing pm in Australian history in my book.
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And Howscum wants us to go back to that ,eventually
 
L-Nizzy said:
Because the vocal minority on $20k will ******** and moan because they aren't getting a tax reduction from the 10% or whatever they pay.
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It is a lot more than 10%, so let's tax everyone over $50,000 grand a year at the low income rate & the people on minimum wage at the highest rate, sounds fair to me. :rolleyes:
 
If you earn between $6000 and $20000, you pay 20c in the dollar in tax.

If you earn over $70000, you are supposed to pay 47c in the dollar. Interestingly though, the rich 200 all seem to find ways (such as Swiss bank accounts) to avoid that tax rate.

We should be cracking down..if the rich don't pay..the Government immediately takes all their assets..the rich will wake up soon enough if the Government does that. They do it to the poor.
 
mantis said:
It is a lot more than 10%, so let's tax everyone over $50,000 grand a year at the low income rate & the people on minimum wage at the highest rate, sounds fair to me. :rolleyes:
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Those on $20k are paying 14%, and those under $20k are paying less than that, down to 0% for those on $6k. Yep, that's a "lot more" than 10%.

I'm not sure where you got the second bit from. Probably from your "take the moral high road persona", you saw that I made point A, so it's a logical step to Point F. What I was actually saying was that if Howard reduced the higher rates to something more fair, (paying 47% of anything over $70k is ridiculous, and dissuades people to advance themselves IMO), then those who pay comparatively less tax will ******** and moan, as per what happened during the last budget when the Libs at least somewhat tried to reduce the burden on middle-income families.

Never said anything about raising taxes for those on $20k at all. Moreso that it's ridiculous in a country where the median income is $50k, for the highest rate to begin at $70k.
 
No, after the tax free freshold, they pay 17% up to $21,600 & over that it is 30% up to $52,000.

If you drop the higher tax rate something has to go & directly or indirectly that will hit the lower income earners, because it is usually health & education that bare the brunt.
 
My bad, I thought it was 20% until $20k. So they pay even less than 14% on the whole amount.

And there are so many other ways that spending can be tightened without affecting health and eduction - cutting out state governments entirely, for starters.
 

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L-Nizzy said:
And there are so many other ways that spending can be tightened without affecting health and eduction - cutting out state governments entirely, for starters.
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Well you know that isn't going to happen, soooooo, health & education spending will get slashed, what I would like to see slashed or totally stopped is defence spending.

Waits for the onslaught. :D
 
mantis said:
Well you know that isn't going to happen, soooooo, health & education spending will get slashed, what I would like to see slashed or totally stopped is defence spending.

Waits for the onslaught. :D
Click to expand...

are you capable of ever producing some logic??

The top rate of tax could be lowered to 30% just by reversing the Howard spending decisions of the last term. It wouldnt even be necessary to touch the wider health and education budget. However, while we are at it, there is no reason that health and education spending shouldnt be cut/ revenue from them increased. Average income earners should pay to go to the doctor and should pay far more for prescription drugs. Massive savings from those two and wouldnt affect the lowest income earners. Arts students for one should pay far closers to the full cost of their degrees via HECS as should lawyers. This would enable hecs to be reduced for graduates we actually need like engineers, scientists, doctors etc and provide additional revenue to cut tax with.

In addition 200k plus public servants could be sacked without any noticeable drop in output.

Thus it would be extremely easy to get to a top rate of tax of 30%. If Howard really had some courage he could make the first $15k tax free to help stop poverty traps, eliminate all middle class welfare, have the top rate at 30% and eliminate CGT. Its actually quite feasible.

As for defence spending, the F111's are decades old, we have something like a dozen ships to defend our coastline, we dont even have an aircraft carrier and much of our equipment is substandard. We need to spend a huge amount more on our armed forces not less.

However I see you have been to the Bob Brown school of misology so making sense is a bit beyond you.
 
medusala said:
...In addition 200k plus public servants could be sacked without any noticeable drop in output....
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Whilst I agree with you on this, I dare say we'd still be paying for them via the dole instead.

It seems Aussie society has to protect the weak and criticise the strong.
 
L-Nizzy said:
My bad, I thought it was 20% until $20k. So they pay even less than 14% on the whole amount.

And there are so many other ways that spending can be tightened without affecting health and eduction - cutting out state governments entirely, for starters.
Click to expand...
Theres an entire thread there

I have been musing on the need for 3 tiers of government for quite a while.


medusala said:
The top rate of tax could be lowered to 30% just by reversing the Howard spending decisions of the last term. It wouldnt even be necessary to touch the wider health and education budget. However, while we are at it, there is no reason that health and education spending shouldnt be cut/ revenue from them increased. Average income earners should pay to go to the doctor and should pay far more for prescription drugs. Massive savings from those two and wouldnt affect the lowest income earners. Arts students for one should pay far closers to the full cost of their degrees via HECS as should lawyers. This would enable hecs to be reduced for graduates we actually need like engineers, scientists, doctors etc and provide additional revenue to cut tax with.
Click to expand...

Would you then recommend the Medicare levy be scrapped? Isnt that a user pays system?What is more important? Can someone who has an Arts degree actually tell me what that entitles one to do..yes I am naive , but also recognise that engineers and scientists would give more value to society than an ''arts'' degree would.

Thus it would be extremely easy to get to a top rate of tax of 30%. If Howard really had some courage he could make the first $15k tax free to help stop poverty traps, eliminate all middle class welfare, have the top rate at 30% and eliminate CGT. Its actually quite feasible.
Click to expand...

You could also look at stopping the rorts used by the higher earners eg 'family trusts' and ''business incomes' yet live off the company credit card.
 
medusala said:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11794858%5E2702,00.html


Howard rejects top-rate tax cuts
Brad Norington
December 28, 2004
PRIME Minister John Howard has poured cold water on the urgings of influential Coalition MPs who want him to significantly reduce the top marginal tax rate.

He should be thoroughly ashamed of himself, he isnt fit to lead the party that Menzies founded. Senate control and this is the best he can come up with. A pathetic joke, becoming more like Fraser by the day. Closet socialist. May as well as have Fred Nile as PM.

How long before the average earner has half his money stolen by the govt?

No wonder so many Australians dodge tax, head os or bludge on welfare.

For those of you who try and rate this chap as Australia's best ever pm you need to have a very hard look at yourself.
Click to expand...


Highest taxing govt in Aussie history and those who dodge the taxes are mainly Liberal voters anyway. Serves Howard right.
 

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Yay lets cuts the taxes of those who already reknown for paying less than half the cents in the dollar than the average wage earner.

Maybe we should follow GWBs advice "why tax people who will avoid paying anyway".
 
It will happen, you just have to wait.

Why would he waste political capital mid-term ? He will make you wait 3 years and announce it as an election sweetener. It's Howards style.


Just spare us the crap about 'the economy is safer with the libs"
 
medusala said:
In addition 200k plus public servants could be sacked without any noticeable drop in output.
Click to expand...

What about actual politicians ? seems to me the only part of government to have escaped the axe recently.

Designed in the days before instant communications. Oh and the GG could be replaced with fax line between the PM and the queen.


Next problem ?
 
Pessimistic said:
What about actual politicians ? seems to me the only part of government to have escaped the axe recently.

Designed in the days before instant communications. Oh and the GG could be replaced with fax line between the PM and the queen.


Next problem ?
Click to expand...

politicians are a catch 22. There is no doubt both state and federal politics are full of absolute duds on both sides who earn way more than they should. However, on the flip side very few people of real ability enter parliament and a couple that did eg Hewson,Barwick, McLachlan didnt live up to their wraps/promise. If the PM is the most important person in the country then I think there is a reasonable argument he should get paid far more.
 
Leper said:
Whilst I agree with you on this, I dare say we'd still be paying for them via the dole instead.

It seems Aussie society has to protect the weak and criticise the strong.
Click to expand...

I dare say what they would receive on the dole would be less than half on average of what they earn in the PS.
 

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