Stadium Capacity vs Crowds

footyfan78

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Yeah. Geelong have distorted the competition by selling many home games over the years.
They do not sell home games. That is one of their grounds they fixture their home games. Really not that hard to get. No different to home games for clubs at Waverley Park when we still had that for our fan bases in different regions here. In all the decades followed the league the 11 home games of clubs like Geelong and Carlton have been at other venues for our fan bases than our more traditional home games. That is normal. What is not normal is a club from two different states playing what should be their own home game in other clubs state. Really not that hard to get the distinction of how disgraceful this is for 12th home game to have been allowed to happen this year. Gold Coast v Fremantle in Perth cannot be spun into anything else but an extra home game to Fremantle that no club should get in a league ladder based on clubs not having any more than 11 home games.
 

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The_Reaper

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They do not sell home games. That is one of their grounds they fixture their home games. Really not that hard to get. No different to home games for clubs at Waverley Park when we still had that for our fan bases in different regions here. In all the decades followed the league the 11 home games of clubs like Geelong and Carlton have been at other venues for our fan bases than our more traditional home games. That is normal. What is not normal is a club from two different states playing what should be their own home game in other clubs state. Really not that hard to get the distinction of how disgraceful this is for 12th home game to have been allowed to happen this year. Gold Coast v Fremantle in Perth cannot be spun into anything else but an extra home game to Fremantle that no club should get in a league ladder based on clubs not having any more than 11 home games.
They do sell home games.
Their home ground is in Geelong. They routinely play big Melbourne clubs in Melbourne in order to maximise gate receipts.

They have done it for so long that it has distorted the competition and now people think it is reasonable for Hawthorn, Richmond, Collingwood etc to get an unfair advantage over the rest of the competition by getting an extra home game and never having to play Geelong away from home.

Given this long running distortion a one off Gold Coast home game in Perth means nothing.

Even this year GWS, Geelong and Richmond were all expected to contend for a top four spot. It is entirely possible (more so than Gold Coast v Fremantle influencing finals) that GWS having to play away in Geelong while Richmond got two home games against Geelong could have decided who got home preliminary finals.
 

telsor

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They do sell home games.
Their home ground is in Geelong. They routinely play big Melbourne clubs in Melbourne in order to maximise gate receipts.

They have done it for so long that it has distorted the competition and now people think it is reasonable for Hawthorn, Richmond, Collingwood etc to get an unfair advantage over the rest of the competition by getting an extra home game and never having to play Geelong away from home.

Given this long running distortion a one off Gold Coast home game in Perth means nothing.

Even this year GWS, Geelong and Richmond were all expected to contend for a top four spot. It is entirely possible (more so than Gold Coast v Fremantle influencing finals) that GWS having to play away in Geelong while Richmond got two home games against Geelong could have decided who got home preliminary finals.

To say sell implies choice.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Probably. But in terms of impacting the "fairness" of the competition it's no different to the Gold Coast/Fremantle deal.
The Freo gc deal is a one off however due to the situation with the comm games. Remember people were complaining about the games in Cairns, so it's not like gc had a.tonne of.options, and this was one the AFL liked

AFL previously rejected Bulldogs playing at Kat park, and another Vic team (forget who) playing at Subi, as they have said they don't want teams selling games to grounds hosting established teams. Part is to push promotion in non presence areas, part to avoid mega rich club's buying away games.

IMO we will only see this again if we host the Olympics (which ain't happening any time soon)
 

telsor

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Probably. But in terms of impacting the "fairness" of the competition it's no different to the Gold Coast/Fremantle deal.
So Geelong-Melbourne is no different to GC-Perth?

I think the many WA fans in threads about Grand final location would disagree with that. We're regularly told there that a cross nullabor flight is an especially grueling trek. (although having done it several times, I don't see it myself).
 

jatz14

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So Geelong-Melbourne is no different to GC-Perth?

I think the many WA fans in threads about Grand final location would disagree with that. We're regularly told there that a cross nullabor flight is an especially grueling trek. (although having done it several times, I don't see it myself).
Let me beat your legs with a bat several times before you get on the plane, see if you change your mind.

I hurt an ankle playing ammos the day before flying across the country, when I got of the plane, my foot was black and blue down to the toes.

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telsor

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Let me beat your legs with a bat several times before you get on the plane, see if you change your mind.

I hurt an ankle playing ammos the day before flying across the country, when I got of the plane, my foot was black and blue down to the toes.
Did you have a high level of medical care to go with that like AFL players have? Access to business class seats should more room be required (the club gets a number regardless, paid by the AFL...WA clubs getting more than anyone else), able to delay flights if the medical staff decide it's preferable, etc?
 

The_Reaper

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So Geelong-Melbourne is no different to GC-Perth?

I think the many WA fans in threads about Grand final location would disagree with that. We're regularly told there that a cross nullabor flight is an especially grueling trek. (although having done it several times, I don't see it myself).
Geelong and Richmond are actual contenders. A Geelong v Richmond game is going to influence the premiership race.
Gold Coast v Fremantle not so much.
 

The_Reaper

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Geelong and Richmond are actual contenders. A Geelong v Richmond game is going to influence the premiership race.
Gold Coast v Fremantle not so much.
Though my general point is that the Gold Coast v Fremantle match is not an unprecedented step down the slippery slope distorting the fairness of the AFL
 

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Ned_Flanders

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Geelong and Richmond are actual contenders. A Geelong v Richmond game is going to influence the premiership race.
Gold Coast v Fremantle not so much.
Fwiw Geelong have asked for all games to be at home since the last redevelopment. The AFL insists they play a number of their bigger games in Melbourne, so they nominate preference of teams.

It's the same with Etihad, where MCG tenant club's are forced to play there.

AFL have made it clear they decide who plays.where, club's can only nominate preferences
 

Kwality

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They do not sell home games. That is one of their grounds they fixture their home games. Really not that hard to get. No different to home games for clubs at Waverley Park when we still had that for our fan bases in different regions here. In all the decades followed the league the 11 home games of clubs like Geelong and Carlton have been at other venues for our fan bases than our more traditional home games. That is normal. What is not normal is a club from two different states playing what should be their own home game in other clubs state. Really not that hard to get the distinction of how disgraceful this is for 12th home game to have been allowed to happen this year. Gold Coast v Fremantle in Perth cannot be spun into anything else but an extra home game to Fremantle that no club should get in a league ladder based on clubs not having any more than 11 home games.
In the early 2000s the quid pro quo was their VFL team, i.e the only club with a reserves team.
 

Kwality

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So Geelong-Melbourne is no different to GC-Perth?

I think the many WA fans in threads about Grand final location would disagree with that. We're regularly told there that a cross nullabor flight is an especially grueling trek. (although having done it several times, I don't see it myself).
One of, not a big deal I agree, having done an every fortnight FIFO Sydney -Perth for 10 months, it takes a toll.
 
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footyfan78

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The Freo gc deal is a one off however due to the situation with the comm games. Remember people were complaining about the games in Cairns, so it's not like gc had a.tonne of.options, and this was one the AFL liked
Mate, an option that gives a club over other side of nation an effective 12th home game should not even be an option. It is incredible how stupid this is and just accepted. But having seen Trump voted in as President in USA should be less and less surprised how dumb many people are. Gold Coast V Fremantle should have been somewhere near Gold Coast. Use it to promote the game in Queensland and attract more fans to the Suns. Even if over the border in Coffs Harbour or something would be acceptable like Dogs v Port in Ballarat or something. This was beyond a joke and should not have been an option on principle alone.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Mate, an option that gives a club over other side of nation an effective 12th home game should not even be an option. It is incredible how stupid this is and just accepted. But having seen Trump voted in as President in USA should be less and less surprised how dumb many people are. Gold Coast V Fremantle should have been somewhere near Gold Coast. Use it to promote the game in Queensland and attract more fans to the Suns. Even if over the border in Coffs Harbour or something would be acceptable like Dogs v Port in Ballarat or something. This was beyond a joke and should not have been an option on principle alone.
It needs to be at an AFL grade stadium

Playing in Cairns this early was a mistake

Where else in Qld are there ovals with the capacity, the ground conditions, and the facilities required for AFL?

This is non negotiable, because the AFL have binding contracts with sponsors and broadcasters, and they have OHS obligations

I hated the sale of the game, but given the alternatives... They sold a game to China. They played in Cairns. They juiced their schedule with as many away games as possible
 

footyfan78

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It needs to be at an AFL grade stadium
Agreed.

Playing in Cairns this early was a mistake
Agreed.
Games in Cairns in wet season just nuts.

Where else in Qld are there ovals with the capacity, the ground conditions, and the facilities required for AFL?
Who knows. I would hope the AFL with all the money resources and awareness they had of Commonwealth games year had planned for this years out, and spent some money having another ground up there available like a regional game in Ballarat down here they do for Dogs.
Short of that, play a game in Alice Springs etc. like Melboure doing soon.


I hated the sale of the game, but
What you are missing is this should not even be a but, home games should not be for sale. Not to another club so another club gains one. That should be non-negotiable for integrity of competition and ladder.

They sold a game to China.
Yes, I have my issues with that too, but only in terms of depriving Gold Coast fans or potential fans of seeing their side like last year.

But there is a major distinction here. The game in China is not giving another home game to another club. They are not playing in Adelaide that would give Port Adelaide an extra home game. It is Gold Coast shifting their home game to a different venue giving up a home ground advantage for a game where neither side is having a home game.

Gold Coast playing Fremantle in Perth is as good as simply giving Fremantle a 12th home game for season when all the other clubs not involved in this game but, importantly competing on same ladder are competing with the foundation of 11 home games essentially corrupted right here. It is a massive principle being thrown down drain here in 2018. There were plenty of grounds at a neutral venue that should have been chosen that tick all the boxes of OH&S issues and AFL level standard of ground. All been pissed down the drain for money and lack of principles.
 
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Ned_Flanders

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Agreed.


Agreed.
Games in Cairns in wet season just nuts.

Who knows. I would hope the AFL with all the money resources and awareness they had of Commonwealth games year had planned for this years out, and spent some money having another ground up there available like a regional game in Ballarat down here they do for Dogs.
Short of that, play a game in Alice Springs etc. like Melboure doing soon.



What you are missing is this should not even be a but, home games should not be for sale. Not to another club so another club gains one. That should be non-negotiable for integrity of competition and ladder.


Yes, I have my issues with that too, but only in terms of depriving Gold Coast fans or potential fans of seeing their side like last year.

But there is a major distinction here. The game in China is not giving another home game to another club. They are not playing in Adelaide that would give Port Adelaide an extra home game. It is Gold Coast shifting their home game to a different venue giving up a home ground advantage for a game where neither side is having a home game.

Gold Coast playing Fremantle in Perth is as good as simply giving Fremantle a 12th home game for season when all the other clubs not involved in this game but, importantly competing on same ladder are competing with the foundation of 11 home games essentially corrupted right here. It is a massive principle being thrown down drain here in 2018. There were plenty of grounds at a neutral venue that should have been chosen that tick all the boxes of OH&S issues and AFL level standard of ground. All been pissed down the drain for money and lack of principles.
You gloss over the main issue, NAME ALTERNATE GROUNDS

You need to head over to the stadium board. Ballarat had to get major works done to go from hosting JLT to home and away, and that work cost millions. Princes park was last estimated to be needing $20-30m to return it to h&a standard, and it's been hosting jtl for years

The AFL would be shot if it spent millions of dollars on a regional Qld ground to be used just once or twice
 

footyfan78

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You gloss over the main issue, NAME ALTERNATE GROUNDS
So wrong. You still do not get the main issue.
Fremantle getting a 12th home game SHOULD JUST NOT HAVE HAPPENED
Get that... seriously. That is the main issue. That is why I brought it up.

Where Gold Coast play the game is a good question but secondary issue.

Allan Border stadium.
Alice Springs and
SCG are just some examples that are not in Perth.
As long as not Perth.
 

Ned_Flanders

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As wrong. You still do not get the main issue.
Fremantle getting a 12th home game SHOULD JUST NOT HAVE HAPPENED
Get that... seriously. That is the main issue. That is why I brought it up.

Where Gold Coast play the game is a good question but secondary issue.

Allan Border stadium.
Alice Springs and
SCG are just some examples that are not in Perth.
I doubt ab is AFL grade (JLT yes, doubt h&a)

Alice I'd wanna check the temp issue

Scg is the Swans ground. So okay to sell a game to the Swans ground, but wrong to Freo? Seriously? And before you say "play a non Syd team" good luck getting more than 1000 for gc vs Freo in Sydney, no chance the AFL would sign off on that)
 

footyfan78

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I doubt ab is AFL grade (JLT yes, doubt h&a)

Alice I'd wanna check the temp issue

Scg is the Swans ground. So okay to sell a game to the Swans ground, but wrong to Freo? Seriously?
Indeed it is Swans ground. What part of that not being a Fremantle home game did you not get. Seriously. Get the grey matter ticking over.
 

footyfan78

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See my edit (hit post my mistake - bloody train!)
Yeah seen it.

Kick the train.

Plenty of examples of clubs shifting home games at neutral venues like SCG.

North Melbourne 5.2 10.5 12.7 16.9 105 Sun 10-Jun-1979 2:10 PM Att: 31,395 Venue: S.C.G.
Hawthorn 3.2 8.6 17.10 23.18 156 Hawthorn won by 51 pts

Essendon 2.6 5.10 8.15 13.16 94 Sun 25-May-1980 2:10 PM Att: 24,545 Venue: S.C.G.
Carlton 1.1 5.5 14.8 20.11 131 Carlton won by 37 pts

St Kilda
7.1 7.1 10.3 11.4 70 Sun 20-Jul-1980 2:10 PM Att: 14,077 Venue: S.C.G.
Richmond 5.3 13.7 24.11 34.18 222 Richmond won by 152 pts
 

Ned_Flanders

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Yeah seen it.

Kick the train.

Plenty of examples of clubs shifting home games at neutral venues like SCG.

North Melbourne 5.2 10.5 12.7 16.9 105 Sun 10-Jun-1979 2:10 PM Att: 31,395 Venue: S.C.G.
Hawthorn 3.2 8.6 17.10 23.18 156 Hawthorn won by 51 pts

Essendon 2.6 5.10 8.15 13.16 94 Sun 25-May-1980 2:10 PM Att: 24,545 Venue: S.C.G.
Carlton 1.1 5.5 14.8 20.11 131 Carlton won by 37 pts

St Kilda 7.1 7.1 10.3 11.4 70 Sun 20-Jul-1980 2:10 PM Att: 14,077 Venue: S.C.G.

Richmond 5.3 13.7 24.11 34.18 222 Richmond won by 152 pts
Missed the point again

Those games were propped up by Vic expats

Gc struggles to get a crowd in melbourne, yet you want them to play in Sydney. With no local support. And twelve Vic's who can be f’ed getting on a plane?

AFL would never approve it because it would bleed money and it would be a pr disaster for the afl
 

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