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Stenglein decides

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A club taking an over 25 player for stenglein in re-building phase :confused: Now let me think - NO

Particularly as we hold the whip hand to get a young midfielder or 1st round pick.
No I don't rate Stenglein very highly as a midfielder, but apparently everyone else does, so the market will determine, and unfortunately or fortunately for us Stenglein has limited options.
I actually think the Crows will be better for trading him ;)
 
theorangeapple said:
historically players of similar stature to stenglien like blumfield and heffernan have gone for second round picks or in some cases 3rd round picks. so a look at that history suggests stenglien's value is probly pick 19-20 IMO, and thats being pretty generous. he's a good player, can do a good job in the midfield but he certainly isnt a world beater.

i can also see where your coming from asking for a first round pick or waters/ butler. i would if i was in the same position. however, if u look at it from our perspective these guys were our first 2 picks last year and proven to have alot of potential in the afl at just 18years of age. i dont think u guys would be jumping at trading waters for stenglien if u were in our position.
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Firstly - Heffernan and Blumfield were traded for salary cap reasons. So, let's get some facts out there. Also - I think calling them "similar stature" is a furfy. Essendon players are traditionally overrated, and on a day that Blumfield saw himself delisted, I think there is even more evidence of that.

Secondly - picks in the second round are a crap-shoot. We chose Stenglein in the second round, and he's proven to be a 200 game player. To think we would just trade that to get another second round back, which could be a complete loss and will be a pick LOWER than that which we chose Stenglein at is ridiculous.

I appreciate that you don;t want to trade Waters. Fine. But don't tell us what we have to take for Stenglein, because we don't have to do the deal either. I'm very comfortable with having some balls and keeping him, or letting him go on the open market.
 

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Second or third rate team is what I meant to say actually. Wallace certainly has started tosort them out... There will be more to come, don't worry about THAT!
 
Kristof said:
Firstly - Heffernan and Blumfield were traded for salary cap reasons. So, let's get some facts out there. Also - I think calling them "similar stature" is a furfy. Essendon players are traditionally overrated, and on a day that Blumfield saw himself delisted, I think there is even more evidence of that.

Secondly - picks in the second round are a crap-shoot. We chose Stenglein in the second round, and he's proven to be a 200 game player. To think we would just trade that to get another second round back, which could be a complete loss and will be a pick LOWER than that which we chose Stenglein at is ridiculous.

I appreciate that you don;t want to trade Waters. Fine. But don't tell us what we have to take for Stenglein, because we don't have to do the deal either. I'm very comfortable with having some balls and keeping him, or letting him go on the open market.
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Well if he's out of contract, your not keeping him now thats for sure - be sensible (like your club is), you'll get a decent trade from him - The Eagles don't mess other teams around and Freo are quite active traders.

How can you say the guy has proven to be a 200 game player? He's only played 106 games. It's the next 100 that are the real proof of a quality player. He might be a 200 game player, but it's hardly a proven point.

Relax and accept, you'll get something decent and fair from one of the WA clubs - don't get twisted out of shape because of what Eagles fans say, we are just discussing the possibilities here.

Oh and can somebody please post about Stenglein's best stopping jobs in 2004 like I asked?
 
I was in the year above Parker at high school.

We would possibly trade our first rounder for him (Stenglein).

Braun - No.
Wirrpunda - Nup
Waters - dreaming
Seaby - No way
Butler - As if
Kerr - still dreaming
Cox - 0 chance
Staker - Yes, but I guess you guys wouldn't rate him.

Judd - please take him, we don't want him.

So I see basically the only way for this trade to go through is through draft picks.

Do you guys rate Chipper Adkins? He's a good little player but I see less and less opportunities for him here as time goes by. Pity, coz he's a goer.
 
Black JuJu said:
Well if he's out of contract, your not keeping him now thats for sure - be sensible (like your club is), you'll get a decent trade from him - The Eagles don't mess other teams around and Freo are quite active traders.

How can you say the guy has proven to be a 200 game player? He's only played 106 games. It's the next 100 that are the real proof of a quality player. He might be a 200 game player, but it's hardly a proven point.

Relax and accept, you'll get something decent and fair from one of the WA clubs - don't get twisted out of shape because of what Eagles fans say, we are just discussing the possibilities here.

Oh and can somebody please post about Stenglein's best stopping jobs in 2004 like I asked?
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you've missed the point if you want a CV of tagging jobs this year. He's a defensive minded midfielder, I don't think he's been a tagger for sometime now. He is also a clearance specialist who is moving more and more into the middle as a prime mover. he is not a one dimensional player who can be said to have stood xyz in round 4. perhaps this once true, but not so much now.

As for him beign a 200 game player, I doubt very much you believe what you wrote. A 24 yr old guy touted as a future captain of his club, has played 106 games, and finished high in the B&F last few years - if that is not screaming 200 game player at you, try adjusting your hearing aid.
 
From the sounds of it striking a trade is going to be fairly difficult.

On one hand there's Stenglien wanting to come back to WA and stating he wants to play at WC. Adelaide don't really want him to go but since he's decided his is leaving, they are determined to get a quality player in return. They have their eye on WC's two young South Australians Waters and Butler and aren't willing to accept draft picks.

on the other there's West Coast who would like Stenglien to come to the club however have ruled out trading either of Butler or Waters. There are no other South Australians on their list and most of their quality players still have 1-2 years to run on their contracts. Their most attractive offer for Stenglien would have been a draft pick or a player and a draft pick however Adelaide have already said they want a quality player not draft picks as compensation.

the best bet would probably be involving a third club, because from the looks of things i can't see the crows and the eagles coming to a deal that both parties would agree to.
 
94_Eagles said:
Well you tell me who we're gonna trade for him?

Odds are, he'll probably be off-limits.
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riggghhht. so you think, the fact that the Op's Manager of the AFC club has said we want a player, and the CEO has said we want a player, means we should:
1. assume that a deal can only be done with draft picks
2. that we should automatically know who is going to be traded.

cognitive reasoning at it's best there.

What makes you think you know who is off limits at the WCE? just saying "oh, they would be..." isn't worth very much. now go do your homework.
 

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That no draft picks edict could easily be a bit of a ruse, by making such a statement, you could possibly send a message that second rounders aren't sufficient, yet if a first rounder were offered and nothing else was on the horizon...

As many have said, something will get done, however it probably won't be easy and it will take much give and take on both sides. It sounds like we're gonna try and play hardball, and WC won't allow themselves to be bent over (ala us in the Carey trade). However, WC is a fair and professional club, as we are (and Freo for that matter), and they'll do their darndest to give us good deal without compromising themselves.

We can't afford to let Stinger go for nothing, we're not the Power, so we'll have to take something. It'll probably be less than we want, while WC or Freo will probably end up giving more than they'd really like to. But in the end, the trade will get done.

What it will exactly be though, at this point in time, is anyone's guess, but thank goodness we have Bigfooty to debate and analyse all possibilities.

Good luck JR, you're in for a tough time!
 
jess-jess said:
From the sounds of it striking a trade is going to be fairly difficult.

On one hand there's Stenglien wanting to come back to WA and stating he wants to play at WC. Adelaide don't really want him to go but since he's decided his is leaving, they are determined to get a quality player in return. They have their eye on WC's two young South Australians Waters and Butler and aren't willing to accept draft picks.

on the other there's West Coast who would like Stenglien to come to the club however have ruled out trading either of Butler or Waters. There are no other South Australians on their list and most of their quality players still have 1-2 years to run on their contracts. Their most attractive offer for Stenglien would have been a draft pick or a player and a draft pick however Adelaide have already said they want a quality player not draft picks as compensation.

the best bet would probably be involving a third club, because from the looks of things i can't see the crows and the eagles coming to a deal that both parties would agree to.
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A lot of what you say is fair, but remember sometimes no means yes, especially when talking up the trade value of certain players.
think of the sheedy special "no, no we'd never trade him, don't be silly; how much was that did you say?"

Oestensibly WC don't appear to need Stinga, but they have tried to get him for years. No doubt this will be for reasons of fit and balance in your midfield, and there will be a player/players of clear talent that do not provide the right fit or balance. This guy/'s are probably well known - perhaps declared off limits - and in your best 22, I say that because WC must have a fair idea of who they want to trade and why.

We are trying to tap up Thompson & Jared Rivers, and we'd be well aware what we have to give up to them. It would be painful, as all trades must be win/win, but in the long run we feel we'd be improved for where we are as a club right now.

It just strikes me that some people don't understand why the WC want Stenglein, rather than chucking a wobbly perhaps you are the best people to ask that same question of yourselves: "He's not that good, why does JW want him so much?" - why indeed.

I am not sure about Jared Rivers, but if my club wants him, and the rest of the league rates him so highly - I need to look at my judgement, not start talking about what dross I'd be prepared to let go to get him. he's obviously a bloody good player, what am I missing?
A further example might be, us trading Mcleod. Many people will say no way, others will point out, that when we need him again he won't be much use to us. By the time we have rebuilt/renovated, it might be too later for him. So we exchange him for a younger player who would be very valuable to us at the time, to a club who needs him now.

So using these analogies, I'd rather not hear about all the players WC won't give up to get a player they have gone out of their way to recruit.
 
Crow-mosone said:
A lot of what you say is fair, but remember sometimes no means yes, especially when talking up the trade value of certain players.
think of the sheedy special "no, no we'd never trade him, don't be silly; how much was that did you say?"

Oestensibly WC don't appear to need Stinga, but they have tried to get him for years. No doubt this will be for reasons of fit and balance in your midfield, and there will be a player/players of clear talent that do not provide the right fit or balance. This guy/'s are probably well known - perhaps declared off limits - and in your best 22, I say that because WC must have a fair idea of who they want to trade and why.

We are trying to tap up Thompson & Jared Rivers, and we'd be well aware what we have to give up to them. It would be painful, as all trades must be win/win, but in the long run we feel we'd be improved for where we are as a club right now.

It just strikes me that some people don't understand why the WC want Stenglein, rather than chucking a wobbly perhaps you are the best people to ask that same question of yourselves: "He's not that good, why does JW want him so much?" - why indeed.

I am not sure about Jared Rivers, but if my club wants him, and the rest of the league rates him so highly - I need to look at my judgement, not start talking about what dross I'd be prepared to let go to get him. he's obviously a bloody good player, what am I missing?
A further example might be, us trading Mcleod. Many people will say no way, others will point out, that when we need him again he won't be much use to us. By the time we have rebuilt/renovated, it might be too later for him. So we exchange him for a younger player who would be very valuable to us at the time, to a club who needs him now.

So using these analogies, I'd rather not hear about all the players WC won't give up to get a player they have gone out of their way to recruit.
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most of what you've said is fair too, however if the eagles say that Waters and Bulter aren't going to be traded, then there's no reason to doubt them. West Coast, like Adelaide, is a very professional club and aren't the type to play games in the media or make statements which they don't intend to follow through on, it's not their style.

Very rarely do the eagles involve in trading, and if they do, it's always involving players who are out of contract. I've can't remember the last player to be traded from West Coast who was still under contract. I don't think the would have been one in the last 5 years. To tell you the truth, I can't even think of an example of one at all. if there is a case, it would have been in the club's early years.

If the eagles say a player isn't available for trade (as they have) then they're not available for trade, regardless of the fact that they would like to have Stenglien at the club. They went after Simon Black a few years ago but weren't willing to part their 3rd pick and the player asked for, so the deal didn't go ahead. Like in Stenglien's case, they wanted Black at the club and actively went after him, however the cost of getting him was too great and it didn't eventuate. If the cost of getting Stenglien is also too great (ie Waters)
then i wouldn't expect the club to go through with the deal in this case either. The midfield seems to have managed fine without Simon Black and i'm sure it will be ok if a trade couldn't be struck with Adelaide on Stenglien too.

As well, all this is based on Waters wanting to be traded to Adelaide, which really there is nothing to suggest that this is the case. He has a contract and doesn't have to do go anywhere if he doesn't wasnt to. From all reports, including the article in the paper yesterday, he's loving it at the eagles and he and Butler are getting a place to share next year. Hardly sounds like the activities of a player wanted to be traded home.

So if the player which Adelaide is after is under contract and doesn't wasn't to leave and the eagles have said publicly that he isn't going to be traded, then i really don't think that a Stenglien for Waters trade will eventuate however much you may think it would benefit both teams.

At the end of the day, Waters is contracted while Stenglien isn't. While it would probably be a last resort, the crows could end up with nothing if they don't find a trade with either West Coast or Freo if Stenglein is dead set on coming home. While they are well within their rights to stick to there guns about this whole thing, they really are the ones with everything to lose if a trade can't be settled.
 
jess-jess said:
At the end of the day, Waters is contracted while Stenglien isn't. While it would probably be a last resort, the crows could end up with nothing if they don't find a trade with either West Coast or Freo if Stenglein is dead set on coming home. While they are well within their rights to stick to there guns about this whole thing, they really are the ones with everything to lose if a trade can't be settled.
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I think you really are missing who holds the whip hand here.
Stenglein would not and apparently has not quit the Crows b4 a deal has been struck by WC for a trade to be done.

Now that puts WC in the same situation as we were with Carey.
The club has agreed to trade, it becomes a situation where WC , like us, will have to give more than they may want to.

I have said he's dispensable - the market apparently sees him better than I do.
The papers today are even talking about Waters and your 2nd round pick
:confused: gee I must seriously under-rate him?
But there is no doubt you are going to lose a player of quality - it hurts, we know because we lost the option to claim Daniel Wells, and were still smarting over it. ;)
 
Wayne's-World said:
The papers today are even talking about Waters and your 2nd round pick
:confused: gee I must seriously under-rate him?
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Let me guess - Adelaide Advertiser :rolleyes:
 
Kane McGoodwin said:
Actually I don't mind Braun as a player & reckon he under-rated. Probably wouldn't be willing to straight swap with Stinger, but could be evened up with fringe player or swap of draft picks (say our 3rd for their 2nd round).
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We've got to resist trading for 25/26 year olds...yeah Braun is an ok midfielder - but as one of the coaster posters said...he is at his peak...NO GOOD...unfortunately we've got too many players at their peak.
The gulf between the ages of the onball A team and the Reillys of the side demands we pick up no more 25/26 year old midfielders
 

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jess-jess said:
however if the eagles say that Waters and Bulter aren't going to be traded, then there's no reason to doubt them.
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Come on. As I said elsewhere, it's obvious they were going to come out and say that. Saying that means nothing. They may very well mean it, but they would have said it even of they didn't mean it.

Do you really think West Coast would make their best offer so soon?

Not saying they will trade those guys, but don't read too much into any claims made this early. Both teams are just playing the game.


****
 
Mad Dog said:
We've got to resist trading for 25/26 year olds...yeah Braun is an ok midfielder - but as one of the coaster posters said...he is at his peak...NO GOOD...unfortunately we've got too many players at their peak.
The gulf between the ages of the onball A team and the Reillys of the side demands we pick up no more 25/26 year old midfielders
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Correctomundo. Crows need to begin investing (at least for the next 3 draft/trading periods) in 10-year players (eg. Waters, Seaby), not in solid players that will only give 'em 5 years (eg. Braun, Morrison). We've got enough of those.
 
Grolm37 said:
Tyson must be impressed 220 odd posts on the adelaide board and 180 on the AFL one is that some kind of record ?
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Add to that the 160 odd posts on the original thread on the rumour of stinger for waters.
Not a bad effort at all, I think the Eagles feathers are ruffled :p
 

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