Strategy Stoppage setup

[Helfarch]

More of a question on Collingwood's strategy at a stoppage that hopefully an avid student of the game can explain to me.

Something that gives me the shits and was especially infuriating against Fremantle and Hawthorn. Why is there no one on the Collingwood offensive side of a stoppage so often? What is going on?

You'll notice when Collingwood were on top in the game against Hawthorn that Pendlebury would fill this void no matter the location of the stoppage. Why is it left vacant so often? We allowed goals against both Fremantle and Hawthorn due to leaving this space to run into in the defensive 50 and have allowed easy-ish escapes from our forward 50 in the same fashion.

Are we just getting sucked up to the player at the stoppage like being drawn to the ball and leap-frogged on a fast break? Or is there a sound reason there is no one there?

 

[mike123]

In stoppage situations there is a cluster**** of players and its hard to find which player to man, so your natural instinct is to guard the defensive side, or at least that's my experience playing, not sure whats going on at Collingwood land.

 

[Helfarch]

Against Fremantle the hole at the back (for Freo) seemed to be a set play to allow Fyfe to run onto the ball behind Sandilands as it's done in every Freo game. Witts stopped it at some point just by being large and following the tap.

 

[brockbruiser]

I was a little bit surprised to see we were ranked 15th for Centre Clearances this year on the AFL Website

RuckmanCentre square attendance – who rucks the most? Brodie Grundy 56 per cent
Centre square hit-outs (per game): Brodie Grundy 7.8
Centre square hit-outs to advantage (team): 27.1 per cent. AFL ranking: 12th

OnballersMost used combination: Brodie Grundy, Scott Pendlebury, Dane Swan, Jack Crisp (31 times)
Most used midfielder (midfielder who attends most centre bounces): Scott Pendlebury (230 times)
Centre clearances won (team): 40.2 per cent. AFL ranking: 15th
Centre clearance king: Jack Crisp and Dane Swan (21)
Centre clearance differential: Collingwood is +3 when either Sam Dwyer or Ben Kennedy attend a centre bounce

 

[Helfarch]

Would make more sense if there was centre clearance and centre clearance to advantage (same with general play clearances). Winning clean ball out of a stoppage is very different to a blind bomb out of congestion.

 

[robertg22]

Centre clearance differential: Collingwood is +3 when either Sam Dwyer or Ben Kennedy attend a centre bounce

lol.. love their use of sample size there..

 

[76woodenspooners]

Something that gives me the shits and was especially infuriating against Fremantle and Hawthorn. Why is there no one on the Collingwood offensive side of a stoppage so often? What is going on?

Not a footy strategist. But interesting question. This is my theory:

There are better offensive options on the defensive side because players can see what's ahead of them.

Options on defensive side:

(1) Take possession of the ball and run towards the goals
(2) Take possession of the ball and kick towards the goals

Options on the offensive side:

(3) Take possession and immediately pass it off to somebody running past (might need set play)
(4) Take possession, turn around towards the goals, by which time the player will often be tackled
(5) Be Scott Pendlebury, take possession, stop time, eat a ham sandwich, duck and weave amongst 5 opposition players before doing a full 180 degrees and spotting up a forward player lace out with a heat seeking missile.

Pendlebury showed us in the Hawthorn game the kind of heroics required to make good of a possession taken on the offensive side.

 

[legendstatus]

I was a little bit surprised to see we were ranked 15th for Centre Clearances this year on the AFL Website

RuckmanCentre square attendance – who rucks the most? Brodie Grundy 56 per cent
Centre square hit-outs (per game): Brodie Grundy 7.8
Centre square hit-outs to advantage (team): 27.1 per cent. AFL ranking: 12th

OnballersMost used combination: Brodie Grundy, Scott Pendlebury, Dane Swan, Jack Crisp (31 times)
Most used midfielder (midfielder who attends most centre bounces): Scott Pendlebury (230 times)
Centre clearances won (team): 40.2 per cent. AFL ranking: 15th
Centre clearance king: Jack Crisp and Dane Swan (21)
Centre clearance differential: Collingwood is +3 when either Sam Dwyer or Ben Kennedy attend a centre bounce

WOW, I'm surprised that you're surprised, have you been watching this year? we have been smashed out of the middle all year, in fact I'm surprised we aren't any lower!

 

[Helfarch]

Not a footy strategist. But interesting question. This is my theory:

There are better offensive options on the defensive side because players can see what's ahead of them.

Options on defensive side:

(1) Take possession of the ball and run towards the goals
(2) Take possession of the ball and kick towards the goals

Options on the offensive side:

(3) Take possession and immediately pass it off to somebody running past (might need set play)
(4) Take possession, turn around towards the goals, by which time the player will often be tackled
(5) Be Scott Pendlebury, take possession, stop time, eat a ham sandwich, duck and weave amongst 5 opposition players before doing a full 180 degrees and spotting up a forward player lace out with a heat seeking missile.

Pendlebury showed us in the Hawthorn game the kind of heroics required to make good of a possession taken on the offensive side.

My take on it is that the offensive side needs to at least have someone to contest, we're decent at contested ball so there is no great harm in providing a contest. For all the reasons you listed it is more of a defensive position yet remains unoccupied to our detriment.

In the end another stoppage is better than opposition uncontested possessions or shot on goal.

I guess a stoppage is the least structured part of the game but personally I would put Pendlebury, Sidebottom or Swan there every time if they are not part of a set play. It will be an order of magnitude more important if third up is scrapped.

 

[Scodog10]

More of a question on Collingwood's strategy at a stoppage that hopefully an avid student of the game can explain to me.

Something that gives me the shits and was especially infuriating against Fremantle and Hawthorn. Why is there no one on the Collingwood offensive side of a stoppage so often? What is going on?

You'll notice when Collingwood were on top in the game against Hawthorn that Pendlebury would fill this void no matter the location of the stoppage. Why is it left vacant so often? We allowed goals against both Fremantle and Hawthorn due to leaving this space to run into in the defensive 50 and have allowed easy-ish escapes from our forward 50 in the same fashion.

Are we just getting sucked up to the player at the stoppage like being drawn to the ball and leap-frogged on a fast break? Or is there a sound reason there is no one there?

It's the bold. To really explain it we would need to know the internal workings of the setup structure, but to my knowledge it has a bit to do with players that play the role of slider and spitter.

Hawthorn are a tricky team to counteract at stoppages because they're a well oiled machine and will often initiate a couple of spitters in a stoppage just to throw off the structure of their opponent (a spitter goes into a contest with the sole purpose of leaving it without attempting to win possession). It often leaves situations where less structurally aware teams will allow the opposition loose men on the perimeter of a contest just so they can throw extra bodies on the inside to bottle it up. It's why a team like Hawthorn use the third man up so often.

Basically it comes down to the catch 22 of having the structural confidence to go one on one and potentially get beat up by them or flood the interior and only allow it out if it's moving our way. As the group gains a better understanding of when and where they need to be I can see this area improving, but it certainly opens you up and one instance saw Sam Mitchell in space defensive side of a stoppage inside their forward 50 on Friday night so its tough.

The flipside is that we monstered both teams for first possessions AFAIK we just couldn't capitalize because their pressure is so immense on the inside.