The Honest Truth Needed

[astro_toby]

now can someone with some know-how let me know some honest truths on the following players

Gilmore
Moore
Archibald
Jackson
Pettifer
Raines
Rodan
Roach
Hartigan
Tuck
Hyde
Krakour
Morrison

I keep hearing they are all coming along "nicely". which ones are most likely gonna become more than projects? from what i have SEEN (i dont want to hear from people who have heard stuff, only what they have SEEN) i rate Jackson, Hyde(will never be a star but skills are reasonable and his endeavour fantastic) Pettifer(he needs a decent damn run in the seniors! playersin his position dont / wont develop playing every 3rd game off the bench), from what i have seen. Roach shows some great signs, and his attitude is fantastic(will never forget the site of him trying to rev up campbell, and other mature players in teh debacle adelaide match) but the others.... i dont know... Hartigan is a go-er - but i really worry about his skills - i mean at pick 50+ he was great.

Over the next year or two, if the likes of Chaffey, Kellaway, Stafford, Campbell, Hilton, are still automatic selections(or infact on the list) i think we will have big problems. and if Tivendale cant be one or the other (i.e A dud or a consistent good player) we will have to find someone who can be. But i'm very interested in some other peoples opinions on these Kids, and which ones are gonna be HONESTLY part of the future..

 

[Tigerland]

Gilmore - Heard he's going to be a gun
Moore - keep getting him confused with Jackson but one of them has been evelated off rookie list will players in defence in seniors (10yr player)
Jackson - see above
Archibald - Same as Gilmore
Pettifer - last chance under Wallace will need a good year, has showed signs.
Raines- too early to tell.
Rodan- last chance under Wallace will need a good year.
Roach - looks the goods, will need a few years.
Hartigan - looks a good player, will need to keep up leg speed as he's small.
Tuck - On shakey ground, see how he goes under Wallace.
Hyde - A fringe player but is a good in and under/better than Fleming.
Krakour - Why is his name on this list? - A gun.
Morrison - If he wasn't a KPP he'd be gone. Last chance to show what he's got in Seniors.

 

[UpTheGuts]

Hyde really improved last year - would need to improve by the same margin next year though to remain/ become a viable AFL player me thinks. 1 sided but at least seems to be pretty hard and committed.

I like Jackson, am pretty keen to see Gilmour play a bit (started to get excited about his 7 goals in VFL game last year before remembering that Pettifer frequently does well at that level) and other than that I think Krak and maybe Hartigan might be the only other 2 on our list at the start of the 2007 season (only 2 seasons away).

Naturally, I hope they all star next year, but I think Tuck, Raines and Roach have their last names to thank for being where they are today. Here's hoping they can be even half the players their old men were.

 

[astro_toby]

Hyde really improved last year - would need to improve by the same margin next year though to remain/ become a viable AFL player me thinks. 1 sided but at least seems to be pretty hard and committed.

I like Jackson, am pretty keen to see Gilmour play a bit (started to get excited about his 7 goals in VFL game last year before remembering that Pettifer frequently does well at that level) and other than that I think Krak and maybe Hartigan might be the only other 2 on our list at the start of the 2007 season (only 2 seasons away).

Naturally, I hope they all star next year, but I think Tuck, Raines and Roach have their last names to thank for being where they are today. Here's hoping they can be even half the players their old men were.

I feel "The Gilmour Boy" and Jackson, are the cream of those unknown players. It was not meant to be an insult to Krakour to be ojn that list - he merely fits into the age bracket. He isnt a gun though, a good player, who can be a gun forward. Maybe the only player to actually benefit under Danny.

I really hope "The Pettifile" has a gun year. Always liked him as a player -Danny really screwed him around from what i saw. Playing a quarter here,a quarter there - mainly when the game was dead and boring - then back to the reserves where we always was consistent. A player like Pettifer is alot like a paul Hudson(and also will he failed under frawley) you HAVE to have faith in him before he stars for you. They both require time to find their way into the team structure and develop an almost "6th sense" with the other forwards. I hope to see Pettifer play at least 18games next year - then if no results - we should write him off. We dont want another Ben Haynes slipping under our guard because of a lack of interest.

 

[peejay]

Gilmore - needs at least another year in at Coburg, might play one or two this year, not convinced
Moore - Potential to hold down a spot in defence
Archibald - No idea, has played zero for Coburg
Jackson - After 2005 should be regular fixture in top 18
Pettifer - has others have said needs to react under wallace this year or out.
Raines - From what i saw for Coburg could make it
Rodan - Will (should) improve under Wallace
Roach - I have my doubts
Hartigan - will play 100 games, might struggle for much more
Tuck - i doubt it
Hyde - should get a contract extension but after that who knows
Krakour - Wil become specialist forward pocket/HFF
Morrison - I hope so but think not.

 

[itsintheblood]

Sadly for some of these guys if AFL rules permitted they would not be playing league footy next year.

I talk of tuck, pettifer, morrison, possibly rodan and hilton.

 

[astro_toby]

Gilmore - needs at least another year in at Coburg, might play one or two this year, not convinced
Moore - Potential to hold down a spot in defence
Archibald - No idea, has played zero for Coburg
Jackson - After 2005 should be regular fixture in top 18
Pettifer - has others have said needs to react under wallace this year or out.
Raines - From what i saw for Coburg could make it
Rodan - Will (should) improve under Wallace
Roach - I have my doubts
Hartigan - will play 100 games, might struggle for much more
Tuck - i doubt it
Hyde - should get a contract extension but after that who knows
Krakour - Wil become specialist forward pocket/HFF
Morrison - I hope so but think not.

Now THATS what i was looking for. Thanks PeeJay. I agree with pretty much all of that, especially on Hartigan. I like the way he goes about it, but i cannot see a player like him playing in a "Dynasty"or a stkilda or Brisbane.

So basically at this stage the only players from that list that we can honestly say with some level on confidence " He will play for us for 5 years or more.." is Jackson, Krak, and Moore

We better get these early picks right.

 

[CJH]

Gilmore - Heard he's going to be a gun


...

Hartigan - looks a good player, will need to keep up leg speed as he's small.

...

Hartigan is still skinny because he is basically still a kid. He is listed at 180cm's though which isn't that short! Give him time to fill out.

 

[CJH]

Gilmore - Youngest player on an AFL list last year. Would have been a first round selection this year if not drafted. Needs to fill out but will be a class player.

Moore - Will become steady, reliable 3rd tall defender. Looks and plays like Ben Hart but not in same class.

Archibald - ???
Jackson - I see him as being more a midfielder. Showed in the seniors that he will be a gun in this position. Funny, slow looking running style but was only 1 metre behind James Walker in the GF sprint. Has excellent acceleration and excellent top speed.

Pettifer - From the first time I saw him in the Wizard Wok game against the Bulldogs, I could see he'd put the hard yards in the gym. Had put on significant muscle. Didn't get a senior chance until &frac12 way through the season but showed himself capable on the HBF. If he continues on in this form this year, he will be an 'A' list player.

Raines - ???
Rodan - Needs some decent coaching. I would suggest he had been given too many instructions from Spud. Needs to be told: Grab the ball, run really fast, take no more than 1 bounce and kick to a forward. KISS for Rodan. Not going to be an 'A' list player but good enought to be a senior regular with the capacity to influence games.

Roach - Is very quick and clever. Needs to bulk up. Will be a regular senior player.
Hartigan - Will end up being a Chaffey / Newman type player. Steady and dependable. Will end up playing a heap of games without anyone noticing.
Tuck - Showed the knack of getting the ball when in the seniors. Long penetrating kick. Can be a steady 'B' list player.

Hyde - Is as good as he's going to get. Is hard and disciplined with excellent work ethic. Will only ever be a tagger but maybe in the mould of Kirk or Peverill who can also win 20+ possession each week.
Krakour - Need to not go missing in games. Can be a match winner.
Morrison - KPP workhorse. Should be tried at CHB. Will only be ordinary at best.

 

[Weaver]

Gilmore - Probably needs another year at Coburg. Lacks bulk and intensity and is in many respects the equivelent of being taken in this years draft. Should make the grade.

Moore - Mobile, light and best when allowed to run around. Was recruited as a wingman and will probably struggle as a genuine key position player. At his best as a 3rd option floating between forward and defence. At 21 he is going to want to actually claim a position because there are going to be some talented kids wanting a role.

Archibald - a weird type. Not a key position player, not a flanker, not a midfielder. Is a marking half-forward flanker or a big slow wingman. A little bit like a Nick Davis or Steve Johnson. Doesn't really have enough quality to make it in the role.

Jackson - Not much of a key position player. Needs to become a midfielder. Has an enormous amount to learn about when to stay with his man and when to leave his man etc. Good size and athleticism. Maybe.

Pettifer - has very little pace, very little stamina and lacks physical presence. To make the grade at the AFL you need to have top marks in a few facets of the game and Pettifer doesn't. A classic example of a guy who gets 5/10 at everything but has no stand out ability. No chance.

Raines - Light and timid and skirts wide. Plenty of quality when they get the ball to him but is a receiver and has to learn to win his own ball. Unlikely.

Rodan - has acceleration, but not pace. Other than the quickness over the first 10 yards he has nothing. He can't win his own ball, he can't tackle, his kicking is ordinary, he is easily exploited by opponents. No chance.

Roach - deceptively quick and deceptively clever. Needs to get a bit of fire in him and add some intensity. He is another one like Pettifer who has a good all round game without having real standout qualities. His problem will be finding a position.

Hartigan - Quick, reasonable size and did well last year. His kicking is hit and miss and he regularly floats them or fails to kick through the ball. I think he is probably about as good as he is going to get.

Tuck - football stupid. Plays like an under-10 in that he just wants to gallop after the ball and struggles with stuff like zones and space and set-plays etc. Might have some chance as a run-with guy. Really at his age he has to deliver next year. Will never have any bulk so will have to learn some tricks.

Hyde - That is good as Hyde gets. He disguises his poor kicking by using handball and by going short. His kicking has to improve and he needs to actually shut down opponents, not just escort them to the ball.

Krakouer - When he is at 100% intensity and throwing himself into tackles and making 2nd and 3rd efforts he is quite handy. The moment he drops off slightly he doesn't contribute much.

Morrison - Lacks mobility and pace but is a good option at CHF. Needs to hit more packs straight-on and needs to make more contests. No one has ever figured out to share a forward line with Richo and I don't see Morrison being the first.

 

[Rodgerramjet]

Gilmore - Probably needs another year at Coburg. Lacks bulk and intensity and is in many respects the equivelent of being taken in this years draft. Should make the grade.

Moore - Mobile, light and best when allowed to run around. Was recruited as a wingman and will probably struggle as a genuine key position player. At his best as a 3rd option floating between forward and defence. At 21 he is going to want to actually claim a position because there are going to be some talented kids wanting a role.

Archibald - a weird type. Not a key position player, not a flanker, not a midfielder. Is a marking half-forward flanker or a big slow wingman. A little bit like a Nick Davis or Steve Johnson. Doesn't really have enough quality to make it in the role.

Jackson - Not much of a key position player. Needs to become a midfielder. Has an enormous amount to learn about when to stay with his man and when to leave his man etc. Good size and athleticism. Maybe.

Pettifer - has very little pace, very little stamina and lacks physical presence. To make the grade at the AFL you need to have top marks in a few facets of the game and Pettifer doesn't. A classic example of a guy who gets 5/10 at everything but has no stand out ability. No chance.

Raines - Light and timid and skirts wide. Plenty of quality when they get the ball to him but is a receiver and has to learn to win his own ball. Unlikely.

Rodan - has acceleration, but not pace. Other than the quickness over the first 10 yards he has nothing. He can't win his own ball, he can't tackle, his kicking is ordinary, he is easily exploited by opponents. No chance.

Roach - deceptively quick and deceptively clever. Needs to get a bit of fire in him and add some intensity. He is another one like Pettifer who has a good all round game without having real standout qualities. His problem will be finding a position.

Hartigan - Quick, reasonable size and did well last year. His kicking is hit and miss and he regularly floats them or fails to kick through the ball. I think he is probably about as good as he is going to get.

Tuck - football stupid. Plays like an under-10 in that he just wants to gallop after the ball and struggles with stuff like zones and space and set-plays etc. Might have some chance as a run-with guy. Really at his age he has to deliver next year. Will never have any bulk so will have to learn some tricks.

Hyde - That is good as Hyde gets. He disguises his poor kicking by using handball and by going short. His kicking has to improve and he needs to actually shut down opponents, not just escort them to the ball.

Krakouer - When he is at 100% intensity and throwing himself into tackles and making 2nd and 3rd efforts he is quite handy. The moment he drops off slightly he doesn't contribute much.

Morrison - Lacks mobility and pace but is a good option at CHF. Needs to hit more packs straight-on and needs to make more contests. No one has ever figured out to share a forward line with Richo and I don't see Morrison being the first.

Ah Weaver, your a breath of fresh air

 

[JohnF]

Agree with everything Weaver says although I'd be even more critical of Tuck and Morrison. Both aren't up to it.

This is pretty dispiriting when you think about it.

There is not one player listed there that I am totally confident about being anything better than average. And there are plenty that I am totally confident won't make the grade.

Let's hope for some good draft picks this year because our current kids aren't anything to get excited about imo.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

a bit harsh on a few kids there Weaver but overall a good summary.


cheers!

 

[astro_toby]

Weavers attitiude is what all richmond ppl have got to start thinking like, thats exactly why i started up this post. We can't "fool ourselves" with this attitude all young players given match time will become 150-200 game players for us. I believe that Gilmour, Jackson, Moore, and Roach(perhaps) do have many qualitities that should make us believe they can become consistent performers. What we really need though is Genuine Skill. This is your moment Miller, if in two years we are still talking on this message board about our weak development of youth, You've failed. No more excuses richmond.