The Omaha Thread

[Daytripper]

Just knocked off 5 buy ins @ $50. Some horrible beats but some very tilty play as well.

Any regular Omaha + here ?

I generally play the 6 ring game on FTP and there are a ton of loose Scandi fish there usually.
Tonight though I was the fish.

Will post some hands later but I am dropping back to $10 (Ricketts will love it) until I get my confidence back again.

 

[Daytripper]

Welcome to Omaha.

Full Tilt Poker Game #10464579119: Table Sattes (6 max) - $0.05/$0.10 - $4 Cap Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6:50:54 ET - 2009/02/06
Seat 1: Mercs2 ($9.60)
Seat 2: Keyroy ($9.50)
Seat 3: jayjay1220 ($23.90)
Seat 4: 64 dynamite ($6.30)
Seat 5: p0ker_p00rker ($7.35)
Seat 6: ColdDecked1 ($4.95)
jayjay1220 posts the small blind of $0.05
64 dynamite posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Mercs2 [2c 2h 3c 3s]
p0ker_p00rker calls $0.10
ColdDecked1 folds
Mercs2 raises to $0.45
Keyroy calls $0.45
jayjay1220 has 15 seconds left to act
jayjay1220 folds
64 dynamite calls $0.35
p0ker_p00rker calls $0.35
*** FLOP *** [7d Ac 5c]
64 dynamite bets $1.85
p0ker_p00rker folds
Mercs2 has 15 seconds left to act
Mercs2 raises to $3.55, and is capped
Keyroy has 15 seconds left to act
Keyroy folds
64 dynamite calls $1.70, and is capped
Mercs2 shows [2c 2h 3c 3s]
64 dynamite shows [Ad 6d Qs 7h]
*** TURN *** [7d Ac 5c] [Tc]
*** RIVER *** [7d Ac 5c Tc] [Js]
Mercs2 shows a flush, Ace high
64 dynamite shows two pair, Aces and Sevens
Mercs2 wins the pot ($8.10) with a flush, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $8.95 | Rake $0.85
Board: [7d Ac 5c Tc Js]
Seat 1: Mercs2 showed [2c 2h 3c 3s] and won ($8.10) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 2: Keyroy (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: jayjay1220 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: 64 dynamite (big blind) showed [Ad 6d Qs 7h] and lost with two pair, Aces and Sevens
Seat 5: p0ker_p00rker folded on the Flop
Seat 6: ColdDecked1 didn't bet (folded)

 

[Daytripper]

Standard.

Full Tilt Poker Game #10464644376: Table Sattes (6 max) - $0.05/$0.10 - $4 Cap Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6:59:16 ET - 2009/02/06
Seat 1: Mercs2 ($8)
Seat 2: Gabbo ($8)
Seat 3: jayjay1220 ($25.80)
Seat 4: 64 dynamite ($10.35)
Seat 5: p0ker_p00rker ($2.95)
Seat 6: ColdDecked1 ($0.35)
Mercs2 posts the small blind of $0.05
Gabbo posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Mercs2 [Ah Jh As 4d]
jayjay1220 raises to $0.35
64 dynamite calls $0.35
p0ker_p00rker folds
ColdDecked1 folds
Mercs2 raises to $1.50
Gabbo folds
jayjay1220 has 15 seconds left to act
jayjay1220 raises to $4, and is capped
64 dynamite folds
Mercs2 calls $2.50, and is capped
jayjay1220 shows [Kd 7h 8d Kh]
Mercs2 shows [Ah Jh As 4d]
*** FLOP *** [5c 7c 7s]
*** TURN *** [5c 7c 7s] [7d]
*** RIVER *** [5c 7c 7s 7d] [8c]
jayjay1220 shows four of a kind, Sevens
Mercs2 shows a full house, Sevens full of Aces
jayjay1220 wins the pot ($7.65) with four of a kind, Sevens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $8.45 | Rake $0.80
Board: [5c 7c 7s 7d 8c]
Seat 1: Mercs2 (small blind) showed [Ah Jh As 4d] and lost with a full house, Sevens full of Aces
Seat 2: Gabbo (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: jayjay1220 showed [Kd 7h 8d Kh] and won ($7.65) with four of a kind, Sevens
Seat 4: 64 dynamite folded before the Flop
Seat 5: p0ker_p00rker didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: ColdDecked1 (button) didn't bet (folded)

 

[Ricketts]

am dropping back to $10 (Ricketts will love it)

umm, yeah...

i hardly ever play omaha, don't really know how to other than knowing you need to have a much stronger hand than holdem.

good fun when i do though, always more fun playing more hands / making more hands because of the 4 cards you get. NLH can get boring especially the way i play.

good luck with winning it back though.

 

[The Passenger]

love omaha, have just starte to get my head around.

my first dozen or so sessions (mixture of cash and sng's) yielded some good results and i would've been in front a bit. not by much. this was purely of instinct then i decided to read a few strategy tips on the internet and after that had a disastrous run where i just couldn't win or got too aggro with second best hands....

started playing again about a month ago. not a whole lot but enough. probably breaking about even. will start getting into a lot more over the next few weeks but at the moment i'm not playing a whole lot. have other shite to deal with.

but yeah, omaha is a great game.

i would start up a stud thread but i think i'd be the only person in it

 

[The Passenger]

this was within my first ever 20 hands of playing omaha.....

Full Tilt Poker Game #9193329075: $3 + $0.30 Tournament (70184389), Table 6 - 15/30 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 8:50:53 ET - 2008/11/27

Seat 1: shamelessdave (3,255)
Seat 2: luckynail (3,300)
Seat 3: KimberUltra (5,850)
Seat 4: PokerMarci87 (2,970)
Seat 5: mikerz (2,910)
Seat 6: JohnThePom (2,715)
Seat 7: tomrau1966 (3,000)
Seat 8: aintnoliving (3,000), is sitting out
Seat 9: GoinSTEIL (3,000)

PokerMarci87 posts the small blind of 15
mikerz posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #3

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shamelessdave [Kh Kc 2d Ac]
JohnThePom has 15 seconds left to act
JohnThePom calls 30
tomrau1966 folds
aintnoliving folds
GoinSTEIL calls 30
shamelessdave calls 30
luckynail calls 30
KimberUltra folds
PokerMarci87 folds
mikerz checks

*** FLOP *** [6s Ks Kd] QUADS BABY
mikerz checks
JohnThePom checks
GoinSTEIL checks
shamelessdave bets 30
luckynail folds
mikerz folds
JohnThePom calls 30
GoinSTEIL folds

*** TURN *** [6s Ks Kd] [7d]
JohnThePom has 15 seconds left to act
JohnThePom checks
shamelessdave bets 75
JohnThePom calls 75

*** RIVER *** [6s Ks Kd 7d] [5s]
JohnThePom has 15 seconds left to act
JohnThePom checks
shamelessdave bets 250
JohnThePom calls 250

*** SHOW DOWN ***
shamelessdave shows [Kh Kc 2d Ac] four of a kind, Kings
JohnThePom mucks
shamelessdave wins the pot (875) with four of a kind, Kings

*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 875 | Rake 0
Board: [6s Ks Kd 7d 5s]

Seat 1: shamelessdave showed [Kh Kc 2d Ac] and won (875) with four of a kind, Kings
Seat 2: luckynail folded on the Flop
Seat 3: KimberUltra (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: PokerMarci87 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: mikerz (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: JohnThePom mucked [3c 5d 4d 2c] - a straight, Seven high
Seat 7: tomrau1966 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: aintnoliving didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: GoinSTEIL folded on the Flop

 

[paxmaniac]

Welcome to Omaha.

Awful. You have a three card gutshot, because you're flush draw is basically never good four handed.

 

[The Passenger]

this thread inspired me to get back into a bit of omaha tonight. and i was so card dead. it was painful. but i showed probably more patience than i've ever shown in a long time and then this hand comes along.

i really enjoyed my opponent's raise on the turn, and i loved the ace on the river because i was sure he had one but knew he didn't have two...

i knew my opponent was calling somewhat lightly because i had been folding a lot but it really was just due to terrible terrible cards and not hitting flops... not passiveness. somehow i still managed to be in front at this stage about 40 hands in to this session.

FullTiltPoker Game #10467129838: Table Cairo (6 max) - $0.05/$0.10 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 11:16:06 ET - 2009/02/06

Seat 1: Mr Veteran ($8.60)
Seat 2: Sly-kon ($12.40)
Seat 3: jarza_fin ($5.30)
Seat 4: shamelessdave ($10.80)
Seat 5: Chris1889 ($11.70)
Seat 6: RMartin83 ($10.20)

Sly-kon posts the small blind of $0.05
jarza_fin posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #1

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shamelessdave [9c Td Qd Qs]

shamelessdave has 15 seconds left to act
shamelessdave raises to $0.35
Chris1889 calls $0.35
RMartin83 folds
Mr Veteran folds
Sly-kon folds
jarza_fin folds

*** FLOP *** [Qh Qc Tc]

shamelessdave checks
Chris1889 checks

*** TURN *** [Qh Qc Tc] [As]

shamelessdave bets $0.40
Chris1889 has 15 seconds left to act
jarza_fin stands up
Chris1889 raises to $1.80
shamelessdave has 15 seconds left to act
shamelessdave has requested TIME
shamelessdave calls $1.40

*** RIVER *** [Qh Qc Tc As] [Ac]

shamelessdave bets $1.80
Chris1889 has 15 seconds left to act
Chris1889 calls $1.80

*** SHOW DOWN ***

shamelessdave shows [9c Td Qd Qs] four of a kind, Queens
Chris1889 mucks
shamelessdave wins the pot ($7.25) with four of a kind, Queens

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $8.05 | Rake $0.80
Board: [Qh Qc Tc As Ac]

Seat 1: Mr Veteran (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Sly-kon (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: jarza_fin (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: shamelessdave showed [9c Td Qd Qs] and won ($7.25) with four of a kind, Queens
Seat 5: Chris1889 mucked [5c 4d 8c 7h] - a flush, Ace high
Seat 6: RMartin83 didn't bet (folded)

i checked the flop as well because 1) i wasn't afraid of him catching up a bit and 2) i had played a couple of pots with him where i checked the flop and he bet and i folded so i was hoping for him to fire here. when he checked behind though i wasn't taking any more chances on the turn of losing value.

 

[ashley12]

Awful. You have a three card gutshot, because you're flush draw is basically never good four handed.

Its a four card gutshot because his straight flush just might be good on that board...

 

[paxmaniac]

Its a four card gutshot because his straight flush just might be good on that board...

 

[Ricketts]

four 4's?

 

[The Passenger]

man sometimes i love omaha. after copping these two painful beats (to the same guy) i still went on to win this sit n go.

Full Tilt Poker Game #10507042563: $2 + $0.25 Sit & Go (79343381), Table 1 - 120/240 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 11:08:16 ET - 2009/02/08

Seat 2: BlkBare (1,480)
Seat 3: shamelessdave (5,110)
Seat 6: ButchP9 (6,910)

ButchP9 posts the small blind of 120
BlkBare posts the big blind of 240

The button is in seat #3

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to shamelessdave [5s Ks 6h Td]

shamelessdave calls 240
ButchP9 calls 120
BlkBare checks

*** FLOP *** [Kh 6s Tc]

ButchP9 checks
BlkBare bets 240
shamelessdave raises to 1,440
ButchP9 folds
BlkBare has 15 seconds left to act
BlkBare calls 1,000, and is all in

shamelessdave shows [5s Ks 6h Td]
BlkBare shows [3s Kc 6d 9h]

for those unfamliar with omaha i have him in a world of hurt. kings and tens versus kings and sixes, but he can't even hit another six cause i have a six that would split the pot. he needs running 3's or 9's to win it or running cards for a straight. after putting it into an odds calculator i was a 91% favourite to win the hand when the money went in.

Uncalled bet of 200 returned to shamelessdave

*** TURN *** [Kh 6s Tc] [7c]

*** RIVER *** [Kh 6s Tc 7c] [8s]

shamelessdave shows two pair, Kings and Tens
BlkBare shows a straight, Ten high

BlkBare wins the pot (3,200) with a straight, Ten high

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot 3,200 | Rake 0
Board: [Kh 6s Tc 7c 8s]

Seat 2: BlkBare (big blind) showed [3s Kc 6d 9h] and won (3,200) with a straight, Ten high
Seat 3: shamelessdave (button) showed [5s Ks 6h Td] and lost with two pair, Kings and Tens
Seat 6: ButchP9 (small blind) folded on the Flop





then this when were playing heads up. even though this wasn't a massive bad beat. i was only 60%-40%. it was just the fact that he hit running 5's that was dirty. plus i would've won there and then. instead i had to claw my way back.

Full Tilt Poker Game #10507340238: $2 + $0.25 Sit & Go (79343381), Table 1 - 250/500 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 11:29:06 ET - 2009/02/08

Seat 2: BlkBare (4,120)
Seat 3: shamelessdave (9,380)

shamelessdave posts the small blind of 250
BlkBare posts the big blind of 500

The button is in seat #3

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to shamelessdave [8d Ad Kc 8c]

shamelessdave raises to 1,500
BlkBare calls 1,000

*** FLOP *** [2h 5d Ah]

BlkBare checks
shamelessdave bets 3,000
BlkBare calls 2,620, and is all in
shamelessdave shows [8d Ad Kc 8c]
BlkBare shows [Kh 5s Kd 3d]
Uncalled bet of 380 returned to shamelessdave

*** TURN *** [2h 5d Ah] [5h]

*** RIVER *** [2h 5d Ah 5h] [5c]

shamelessdave shows a full house, Fives full of Eights
BlkBare shows four of a kind, Fives
BlkBare wins the pot (8,240) with four of a kind, Fives

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot 8,240 | Rake 0
Board: [2h 5d Ah 5h 5c]

Seat 2: BlkBare (big blind) showed [Kh 5s Kd 3d] and won (8,240) with four of a kind, Fives
Seat 3: shamelessdave (small blind) showed [8d Ad Kc 8c] and lost with a full house, Fives full of Eights





but what a flop on the winning hand.

FullTiltPoker Game #10507375129: $2 + $0.25 Sit & Go (79343381), Table 1 - 300/600 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 11:31:29 ET - 2009/02/08

Seat 2: BlkBare (680)
Seat 3: shamelessdave (12,820)

shamelessdave posts the small blind of 300
BlkBare posts the big blind of 600

The button is in seat #3

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shamelessdave [Ad 4d 9c 7s]

shamelessdave raises to 1,800
BlkBare calls 80, and is all in

shamelessdave shows [Ad 4d 9c 7s]
BlkBare shows [As 6h Kd Kc]

Uncalled bet of 1,120 returned to shamelessdave

*** FLOP *** [6c 8h 5s] flopped straight

*** TURN *** [6c 8h 5s] [Qd]

*** RIVER *** [6c 8h 5s Qd] [Ts]

shamelessdave shows a straight, Ten high
BlkBare shows a pair of Kings

shamelessdave wins the pot (1,360) with a straight, Ten high

BlkBare stands up
shamelessdave stands up

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot 1,360 | Rake 0
Board: [6c 8h 5s Qd Ts]
Seat 2: BlkBare (big blind) showed [As 6h Kd Kc] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 3: shamelessdave (small blind) showed [Ad 4d 9c 7s] and won (1,360) with a straight, Ten high

 

[Daytripper]

Awful. You have a three card gutshot, because you're flush draw is basically never good four handed.

Any 4 made a straight (4c makes a straight flush), any 2 or 3 made a set and any C made a flush.

I hear what you're saying about the low flush but in my experience people at these levels worry to much about flushes. Bet them like you've got the nuts unless the betting indicates something different.

Its amazing how often even two pair is good.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

PL Omaha is a very long term game and you need to be adequately bankolled ( 80+ buy ins ). It's a game with extreme swings and it is very easy to drop several buy ins quickly. Even if you are getting your money in good with PLO, chances are you will never be that big of a favourite.

To that guy who said no-one will be interested in a Stud thread. I will be happy if you started one up!!

 

[PalaceGun]

Any 4 made a straight (4c makes a straight flush), any 2 or 3 made a set and any C made a flush.

I hear what you're saying about the low flush but in my experience people at these levels worry to much about flushes. Bet them like you've got the nuts unless the betting indicates something different.

Its amazing how often even two pair is good.

I don't like how you played that hand. I'd probably bin it pre-flop unless I was on a very passive table. It is a hand that is going to get you into trouble. You've got the low end of straights and flushes which can be hard to fold even when it is obvious you are beat.

In this hand after the flop your opponent has an ace and nothing else at the very worst worst, which gives you a 50% chance of winning the hand. It's quite likely he has an ace with either flush or straight draws in which case you are monstered. When you are drawing at cards you really want to be drawing at the nuts, a lot of your perceived outs you mention are outs for better possible hands quite likely held by your opponent.

 

[Daytripper]

I don't like how you played that hand. I'd probably bin it pre-flop unless I was on a very passive table. It is a hand that is going to get you into trouble. You've got the low end of straights and flushes which can be hard to fold even when it is obvious you are beat.

In this hand after the flop your opponent has an ace and nothing else at the very worst worst, which gives you a 50% chance of winning the hand. It's quite likely he has an ace with either flush or straight draws in which case you are monstered. When you are drawing at cards you really want to be drawing at the nuts, a lot of your perceived outs you mention are outs for better possible hands quite likely held by your opponent.

I am never binning two pair, double suited and connected pre flop ever.

 

[PalaceGun]

I am never binning two pair, double suited and connected pre flop ever.

Prepare for disappointment...

Playing those type of hands from 2 though to at least 6 is a recipe for winning small pots and losing big ones.

 

[Daytripper]

Prepare for disappointment...

Playing those type of hands from 2 though to at least 6 is a recipe for winning small pots and losing big ones.

Disagree completely. These hands are so well disguised. You can win some very big pots against muppets who just can't fold their aces or kings post flop
which they raised with pre flop.

Contrary to popular opinion it is not all that common to have your flush beaten by a higher flush either. Not saying it doesn't happen, but you shouldn't let your whole Omaha play be dominated by the thought that your flush is no good.

 

[PalaceGun]

That's fine if you can tag players who don't fold aces and are capable of folding sets, low straights, low flushes etc when it is obvious that you're beat (doesn't seem like it).

In your description of the hand in question you appear completely oblivious to what you're opponent could have. There is a wide variety of hands that you are playing against where you are taking it down less than 20% of the time.

 

[Daytripper]

That's fine if you can tag players who don't fold aces and are capable of folding sets, low straights, low flushes etc when it is obvious that you're beat (doesn't seem like it).

In your description of the hand in question you appear completely oblivious to what you're opponent could have. There is a wide variety of hands that you are playing against where you are taking it down less than 20% of the time.

Why 20% ?

I have one definite out (4c) plus the other 8 outs to the flush. Lets say I win with that particular low flush 50% of the time so that gives me 4 outs. Then we have the set which is 4 outs. Again lets say we win 50% of the time so thats another 2 outs.

Thats 7 outs (very conservatively estimated) which gives me about 28%. Personally I would rank it as about 9 outs (36%) as I would rate the flush winning 75% of the time.

I also had some fold equity by pushing to the cap limit. He hit two pair on the flop so called but otherwise he would be hard pressed to call with a pair in that situation.

And as it turned out I won the hand (and the max pot too which is weird considering someone told me that apparantly you can't win big pots with those types of hands. ).

Watch durr, trex, OMG and urin play Omaha on FTP one day. You should see some of the hands they get it in there with and they are the best players in the world.

 

[PalaceGun]

Why 20% ?

I have one definite out (4c) plus the other 8 outs to the flush. Lets say I win with that particular low flush 50% of the time so that gives me 4 outs. Then we have the set which is 4 outs. Again lets say we win 50% of the time so thats another 2 outs.

Not sure why you assume he's never drawing at a higher flush than yours. Any hand with an ace, higher flush draw and a couple of blockers is about 80% to beat you with quite a few combinations up to 90%.

Hitting one of your sets can easily hit someone's straight.

He's never folding (unless he's a moron and was bluffing) as he's not got much left to put in the pot (1.70 into a $7 pot?) .

You really want to be drawing at the nuts (or at least close to it) in the micros.

 

[Daytripper]

Not sure why you assume he's never drawing at a higher flush than yours.

I said there was a greater chance of him not drawing to a flush than there was of him drawing to it. I did not say 'never'.

Any hand with an ace, higher flush draw and a couple of blockers is about 80% to beat you with quite a few combinations up to 90%.

Fine

Hitting one of your sets can easily hit someone's straight.

Mate, its Omaha. I'm not going to sit around and wait to win 5BB's every 10 rotations when I hit the nut flush or a full house. You need to get your hands dirty sometimes.

He's never folding (unless he's a moron and was bluffing) as he's not got much left to put in the pot (1.70 into a $7 pot?) .

I've seen them fold before after C-betting but generally I agree.

You really want to be drawing at the nuts (or at least close to it) in the micros.

Of course you do but you also need to take some risks when you get a decent chance at it.

 

[PalaceGun]

I said there was a greater chance of him not drawing to a flush than there was of him drawing to it. I did not say 'never'.

Mate, its Omaha. I'm not going to sit around and wait to win 5BB's every 10 rotations when I hit the nut flush or a full house. You need to get your hands dirty sometimes.
I've seen them fold before after C-betting but generally I agree.

Of course you do but you also need to take some risks when you get a decent chance at it.

I don't mind getting my hands dirty but when I go over the top of aggression I want my hand to be better than a 3 high flush and gutshot straight draw.

Maybe it is different in capped pot play. Never played it. What's that all about? Doesn't seem like much post-flop play.

 

[mdc]

I am never binning two pair, double suited and connected pre flop ever.

As PalaceGun said, you're going to flounder with this strategy.

Watch durr, trex, OMG and urin play Omaha on FTP one day. You should see some of the hands they get it in there with and they are the best players in the world.

One of the worst things any poker player can do is rail high-stakes online games and then try to imitate that play at low-stakes. You'll go bust very quickly.

The other thing to note is that just because you see durr win a hand with 4s 7s 9c Kc, doesn't mean he's playing that shit all the time. It's all situational.

To that guy who said no-one will be interested in a Stud thread. I will be happy if you started one up!!

+1.

+2 if it's Stud 8/b.

 

[paxmaniac]

I am never binning two pair, double suited and connected pre flop ever.

The problem is that 2233ss is a hand that never makes the nuts unless you make quads or a wheel. Your "big hands" are bottom set, bottom straights and bad flushes. In general these hands will win small pots and lose big ones.

I'm not saying you should never play the hand, but just that you should be aware that it is often going to be junk. Small flushes are sometimes worth playing when you are heads up on the flop, but any more than that (like the four way example) and you should send them straight to the muck.

By the way, anyone who goes bust with an overpair AA on a flushing board is a complete moron.