Analysis The "We need to Rebuild" myth.

[Grockadoc]

i think the logic goes like this.
free agency. cotch, lids, rance, riewoldt, vickery and we should get 1st round picks for them.
in total thats 5 1st rounders there plus the one we are getting for being crap this year. so thats 6 first round picks all 18 years old and most likely 6 out of the best 18 players in the country.
get them to develop together along with say next years 1st rounder and say we free agent a couple more players, then you theoretically have 9 first rounders in the team along with martin, floss, cellis, menadue and we can get a premiership.
i think thats the logic.

Interestingly, 4 of those 5 players you listed are first rounders themselves, and Rance wasn't far off being one either.

 

[Mr Magic]

Ever heard of free agency?
Trading draft picks and future draft picks for proven talent from other clubs?

Im not going over this again its dumb. You dont trade your captain, best mid thats only 26 for draft picks which will be spent on an untried 18 year old.

Who says we need a ******* rebuild anyway? The media? Hahaha
Add Yarran into this side and two to three players (ruck, mid, kp) end of the year and we will be fine.

Free agency is only relevant if you can get the likes of Treloar.

Treloar said himself the list is not good enough compared to the Pies which is scary in itself. The fact your talking up Yarran is a worry as he is no certainty

Fact is we need to trade some guns out, get top 5 draft picks and more, and then we might be able to attract Hurley and Heppell on million dollar contracts for a while as we then have the means via the Dusty model to raise the talent we need for Hurley and Heppells window.

Does not necessarily mean trading out Cotch who is slightly younger but the older types simply are in the wrong window for RFC

 

[Mr Magic]

Interestingly, 4 of those 5 players you listed are first rounders themselves, and Rance wasn't far off being one either.

Exactly if we get a few top 5 draft picks this year surely we can't do another Tambling

 

[Grockadoc]

Exactly if we get a few top 5 draft picks this year surely we can't do another Tambling

No, but we could draft a morabito, freeman or scharenberg, who will just not be fit for a long enough period of time to really benefit losing a grade talent.

 

[Mr Magic]

No, but we could draft a morabito, freeman or scharenberg, who will just not be fit for a long enough period of time to really benefit losing a grade talent.

Doesn't matter! You can't feed the BS Dan Richardson said about Tiger suppporters not accepting a proper rebuild unless you are prepared to front up big investments, If more want to throw good money after bad via FTF let them own their own mistakes. At some point sense has to prevail and competent people need to get involved prepared to shoulder responsibility and take a risk!

They can be a Morabito because it just means you get more chances and more draft picks like Hawthorn with Ellis, Dowler and others.

Some in RFC need to take their left hats off and accept to get a return one has to take a risk. In a relatively free world not many are prepared to be your bitch and even if they are RFC are hardly in a major power broker position anyway!

If one has to take a risk, as a tryanny is not operating, and people are using a market of choices smart people need to be involved in making smarter decisions for the club with no fool involvement! This is an unavoidable dynamic unless RFC is strong enough to win a war!

 

[TigerImposter]

No, but we could draft a morabito, freeman or scharenberg, who will just not be fit for a long enough period of time to really benefit losing a grade talent.

Or Reece Conca who was outside the spoken window being a pick 6

 

[Mr Magic]

Or Reece Conca who was outside the spoken window being a pick 6

Safe pick according to David King but just a poor selection really IMO

 

[Achilles Heel]

Interestingly, 4 of those 5 players you listed are first rounders themselves, and Rance wasn't far off being one either.

absolutely so why haven't the post hardwick first rounders developed? I say post and why has Francis Jackson got so many post hardwick first rounders so wrong when the pre hardwick first rounders are ok?

 

[Achilles Heel]

The moneyball approach was Hardwick's choice according to Carro which would make sense as Hardwick has favoured these types at the selection table.

He gushes when he talks about Thomas or Townsend or Morris or Petterd.

there is some blame on the recruiters but the majority rests on the accountant

 

[bigstyletiger]

I'm not in favour of trading our guns unless they want out. Looking at North and Hawthorn it seems that improved training and rehabilitation practices mean that players can perform better for longer.

I'm of the opinion that our best 22 is pretty solid but it is short of a gun inside mid and an AFL quality ruckman. We have been poor this year mainly due to injury/suspension lack of continuity. Really we should have known this would happen ever since NAB 3 where we had 15 players on the ground.

This year - despite being on paper awful - will result in growth. C Ellis, Menadue, Rioli getting serious experience and showing signs. McIntosh taking more responsibility. And at the end of it all we should end up with a top 5-8 pick. I have us finishing 13th/14th with 7 wins.

This year could be a blessing in disguise. I suspect the club was going to mortgage the future at the end of the year and look to trade this years first pick and a future first rounder for a gun. Given that this years draft is looking good and next years the term 'super draft' have already been used i would be much much happier if we held the picks.

I'm hoping that Conca gets his body right and signs but chances are his hammys will always play up. Best case scenario he plays 10 good games this year and we trade him to get back into the 2nd round this year. I'd only trade Ty if the offer is right - not too many back up rucks or 1st rucks for that matter can hit the scoreboard as he can.

It's widely known that we have some of the best A grade talent in the comp. Our mid range players are ok - it's our bottom 5-6 that are getting us slaughtered week in week out this year. Next year however this may be a different story.

My strategy
- get Cotchin, Grimes, Conca (maybe not possible), Yarran, Griffiths and Ben Lennon on the park playing regular footy.
- keep first round picks - target contested ball mid this year
- develop/persist with Vlastuin as inside mid - do not play Moore or Townsend
- play kids (Rioli, C Ellis, Menadue) as much as possible this year regardless
- put serious development into Lennon, Markov, Drummond, Castagna
- do not play Hunt, Chaplin, Morris, Townsend, Moore unless its absolutely necessary despite potential short term benefits
- invest in an international rookie ruckman who can jump and has a strong body
- believe that the below 24 can be top 4 with a couple of key additions and development

Grimes, Astbury, McIntosh
Yarran, Rance, Houli
B Ellis, Miles, Menadue
Edwards, Riewoldt, Deledio
Rioli, Vickery, Lloyd
Foll: Traded Ruck, Cotchin, Martin
Inter: Vlastuin, Conca, C Ellis, Grigg, Griffiths, Lennon
+ quality first rounder this year

 

[Joey longshadow]

Interestingly, 4 of those 5 players you listed are first rounders themselves, and Rance wasn't far off being one either.

Would having all those young guys in the team at once not raise problems with paying the minimum in our salary cap ..and if we have to start paying them high where to when contract negotiations come up again in the future and they want more ....you know with people being inherently greedy and all

 

[Achilles Heel]

I'm not in favour of trading our guns unless they want out. Looking at North and Hawthorn it seems that improved training and rehabilitation practices mean that players can perform better for longer.

I'm of the opinion that our best 22 is pretty solid but it is short of a gun inside mid and an AFL quality ruckman. We have been poor this year mainly due to injury/suspension lack of continuity. Really we should have known this would happen ever since NAB 3 where we had 15 players on the ground.

This year - despite being on paper awful - will result in growth. C Ellis, Menadue, Rioli getting serious experience and showing signs. McIntosh taking more responsibility. And at the end of it all we should end up with a top 5-8 pick. I have us finishing 13th/14th with 7 wins.

This year could be a blessing in disguise. I suspect the club was going to mortgage the future at the end of the year and look to trade this years first pick and a future first rounder for a gun. Given that this years draft is looking good and next years the term 'super draft' have already been used i would be much much happier if we held the picks.

I'm hoping that Conca gets his body right and signs but chances are his hammys will always play up. Best case scenario he plays 10 good games this year and we trade him to get back into the 2nd round this year. I'd only trade Ty if the offer is right - not too many back up rucks or 1st rucks for that matter can hit the scoreboard as he can.

It's widely known that we have some of the best A grade talent in the comp. Our mid range players are ok - it's our bottom 5-6 that are getting us slaughtered week in week out this year. Next year however this may be a different story.

My strategy
- get Cotchin, Grimes, Conca (maybe not possible), Yarran, Griffiths and Ben Lennon on the park playing regular footy.
- keep first round picks - target contested ball mid this year
- develop/persist with Vlastuin as inside mid - do not play Moore or Townsend
- play kids (Rioli, C Ellis, Menadue) as much as possible this year regardless
- put serious development into Lennon, Markov, Drummond, Castagna
- do not play Hunt, Chaplin, Morris, Townsend, Moore unless its absolutely necessary despite potential short term benefits
- invest in an international rookie ruckman who can jump and has a strong body
- believe that the below 24 can be top 4 with a couple of key additions and development

Grimes, Astbury, McIntosh
Yarran, Rance, Houli
B Ellis, Miles, Menadue
Edwards, Riewoldt, Deledio
Rioli, Vickery, Lloyd
Foll: Traded Ruck, Cotchin, Martin
Inter: Vlastuin, Conca, C Ellis, Grigg, Griffiths, Lennon
+ quality first rounder this year

Add a new coach and I agree with you