-
Mobile App Discontinued
Due to a number of factors, support for the current BigFooty mobile app has been discontinued. Your BigFooty login will no longer work on the Tapatalk or the BigFooty App - which is based on Tapatalk.
Apologies for any inconvenience. We will try to find a replacement.
Themanbun's Midfield Minute
- Thread starter Themanbun
- Start date
- Tagged users None
🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.
- Apr 19, 2019
- 13,662
- 45,719
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Thread starter
- #177
!!!North Melbourne vs Richmond Post!!!
We got lucky
You know how after I watched the match, I posted in the autopsy thread that it wasn't that bad?
Upon review, I was wrong. The beautiful mental application and selflessness we showed last week was completely absent this week. If last week's post was all about how the selfless things allowed us to 'win' (draw) the game against a really good side. This week's post is the opposite. Even in our dominant first quarter - we gained ascendancy through individual brilliance despite poor midfield craft and function. Frankly? It's not good enough, and is a perfect example of clearance aggregates flattering us.
I'll illustrate this through a number of first quarter bounces and stoppages, then one right towards the end when the usual suspect(s) put the team above themselves.
Centre Bounce 1
This one, with the scores at 0-0, starts very promisingly, then two senior players let it fall apart.
Image 1 - the setup
Pretty standard setup here - Powell as sweeper to the left of screen, LDU in Xerri's hit zone, and Jy at the front of the stoppage.
Image 2
The ball goes up and falls to Nankervis' side of the square. Powell begins to track his man inward smartly. As sweeper I usually prefer someone to hold their position, but there is a lot of space directly in front of the umpire where we need at least some representation. Jy has seen this space too and is very, very crafty here.
Image 3
Jy reads this tap light years ahead of everyone else at this bounce. LDU jostles his opponent, while Jy gains a lot of separation very quickly on Taranto, who still has no clue where the tap is going.
Image 4
And we're out. The ball has fallen to the back of our stoppage. It would have gone right into Powell's arms had he held his space as sweeper, but regardless, he does the next best thing and pushes his man through and out the other side of the stoppage.
This is where it looks so promising. The ball has fallen to where we have 3x players representing. This is the perfect opportunity to lay some blocks and work the ball out through either the mids spreading laterally or the half backers bursting up off the back of the square.
Image 5
And this is where it starts to break down. This ball is Jy's. It has his name written all over it. He is in prime position. Yet still LDU appears intent on trying to get there first (it's not a race against your own teammate) instead of turning his mental attention to how he can start to make life easier for Jy. He can either block the Richmond player in pursuit, or he can spread laterally to be a receive option and call a half back through.
He does neither.
Image 6
LDU continues to run in no man's land. Because he was so intent on beating Jy to that ball, probably through good intentions, he is now too close to be a receive option.
To add to this very ordinary lapse from our senior players - Caleb Daniel also does not read this well at all, and runs way too close to the Richmond player to be a decent receive option. You either block for Jy or you spread to receive. Those are the only two acceptable options for a senior player here.
We've gone from what was effectively a 3-1 with 2 of our blokes having a clear run at the footy, to being on the cusp of losing this clearance through a holding the ball.
Image 7
And the tackle gets laid. LDU and Daniel are still ball watching. I don't know how or why, but they are. We're cooked here through no fault but our own. Daniel positions himself where he cannot influence at all, and LDU is still 1m away screaming for a handball while not facing the play. Remember we're going backwards here, and handballing to a bloke who has to u turn is a cardinal sin.
Image 8
I don't think people appreciate how good Jy's work is here. Our only hope out of this contest is for him to break the tackle and that's exactly what he does.
LDU still doesn't consider laying a block on the Richmond pursuer. Again, unacceptable.
Images 9 and 10
Again...no block. I won't say anything.
Thankfully, someone who can read the play intervenes. LMac comes streaming off the half back flank for a handball receive, and pumps the ball for the clearance.
Despite our best attempts to **** that up, we somehow came away with a pretty good clearance thanks to Simpkin and McDonald.
Stoppage 1
This one only needs one image. Again, we got saved. A poor throw in means the ball goes straight out of bounds again.
Scott and Daniel here...no communication whatsoever. Look at that dangerous space directly behind the ruckmen, in the corridor, close to Richmond's half forward flank. If that ball falls to the back, either through tap or other means, we're cooked.
Thankfully that didn't happen and the ball went out of bounds for a reset.
Stoppage 2
This stoppage is another example of...wtf. As you can see, it's early in the game as well. So there's no reason for us to be this lazy and switched off.
Image 1
The setup immediately after the previous one is better. Stephens and Sheezel move to cover dangerous corridor space.
Image 2
We've got a heavily defensively weight setup (to the left of screen), our best bet is to take this out the back of the stoppage and then move inboard. Powell and Daniel will need to work hard to be able to do so, yet I'm not sure they've realised the play, and what they need to do, as you'll see when this unfolds.
Image 3
The ball kind of falls to the feet and spits out to the defensive side. LDU has misread it, which happens. It keeps rolling leftward.
Images 4 and 5
Powell was our out the back representation at that stoppage and it gets past him. Luckily we have Scott there who collects.
Unfortunately with LDU's misread and Powell being covered, the onus here is on Daniel first and then Jy to provide an option.
Daniel doesn't spread. He just stands there, facing backwards but not moving (not a good spot for a receive). Jy presents the best option which you'll see in the following images.
Image 6
Now Jy has received - Powell and Daniel REALLY need to work to get out the back of the stoppage and provide a release. Scott needs to lay a shepherd.
None of this happen.
Powell and Daniel position themselves behind two Richmond players and just simply do not work hard enough to be an option. Powell needs to work about two metres to his left. Scott just fades out of the contest.
Image 7
Powell stamps his feet here when he is correctly not used, and as you can see, he's still not in a position for a handball receive. A bizarre misunderstanding of what's required here. Jy has to u-turn back into 3 Richmond players.
Image 8
Not for the first time, Jy manages to do what was close to impossible. With no outlets at the back of the contest, he just breaks the tackle and u-turns. He gets a kick down the line which gets spoiled out of play.
What could have been a really clean inboard corridor/switch exit turns into a down-the-line through selfish acts and blokes not working hard enough for their mates, again.
Image 9
And he either lets them know, or expresses confusion about them trying to pretend they were an actual option to help him out in that contest.
Centre bounce 2
This one is actually a pretty clean exit. I like to show the good stuff we do as well. The crucial element to this is holding position as a sweeper.
Image 1:
The setup is pretty standard, although there's an absolute paddock behind the ruckmen toward Stephens' wing. Richmond will intend to run through there, and Jy should let them do it as sweeper, and trust his mates to pressure up ahead.
Image 2
And that's where the ball goes. It's forward for us, and Richmond will have to exit out the back if they want to get this clearance.
Images 3 and 4
Xerri, the animal, beats everyone out to to the ball. His value can't be understated here. A less savvy ruckman gets beaten out by the mids and they use their wing to exit. You'll see Jy is letting his man drift into the contest, and three Richmond players get sucked into trying to beat out Xerri. This is the bees to a honeypot stuff you normally see us doing, except this time we're backing our player in to win the footy.
Image 5
Something inexplicable happens - the ball somehow just shoots backward.
Thankfully we have a sweeper who held his space at the back of the contest, right?
Image 6
Right.
Here he is, and he gets a clean receive. Parker then laid a shepherd for him, and he exits well. This is a really good example of two smart midfielders working with each other rather than playing for themselves.
Part 2 below!
We got lucky
You know how after I watched the match, I posted in the autopsy thread that it wasn't that bad?
Upon review, I was wrong. The beautiful mental application and selflessness we showed last week was completely absent this week. If last week's post was all about how the selfless things allowed us to 'win' (draw) the game against a really good side. This week's post is the opposite. Even in our dominant first quarter - we gained ascendancy through individual brilliance despite poor midfield craft and function. Frankly? It's not good enough, and is a perfect example of clearance aggregates flattering us.
I'll illustrate this through a number of first quarter bounces and stoppages, then one right towards the end when the usual suspect(s) put the team above themselves.
Centre Bounce 1
This one, with the scores at 0-0, starts very promisingly, then two senior players let it fall apart.
Image 1 - the setup
Pretty standard setup here - Powell as sweeper to the left of screen, LDU in Xerri's hit zone, and Jy at the front of the stoppage.
Image 2
The ball goes up and falls to Nankervis' side of the square. Powell begins to track his man inward smartly. As sweeper I usually prefer someone to hold their position, but there is a lot of space directly in front of the umpire where we need at least some representation. Jy has seen this space too and is very, very crafty here.
Image 3
Jy reads this tap light years ahead of everyone else at this bounce. LDU jostles his opponent, while Jy gains a lot of separation very quickly on Taranto, who still has no clue where the tap is going.
Image 4
And we're out. The ball has fallen to the back of our stoppage. It would have gone right into Powell's arms had he held his space as sweeper, but regardless, he does the next best thing and pushes his man through and out the other side of the stoppage.
This is where it looks so promising. The ball has fallen to where we have 3x players representing. This is the perfect opportunity to lay some blocks and work the ball out through either the mids spreading laterally or the half backers bursting up off the back of the square.
Image 5
And this is where it starts to break down. This ball is Jy's. It has his name written all over it. He is in prime position. Yet still LDU appears intent on trying to get there first (it's not a race against your own teammate) instead of turning his mental attention to how he can start to make life easier for Jy. He can either block the Richmond player in pursuit, or he can spread laterally to be a receive option and call a half back through.
He does neither.
Image 6
LDU continues to run in no man's land. Because he was so intent on beating Jy to that ball, probably through good intentions, he is now too close to be a receive option.
To add to this very ordinary lapse from our senior players - Caleb Daniel also does not read this well at all, and runs way too close to the Richmond player to be a decent receive option. You either block for Jy or you spread to receive. Those are the only two acceptable options for a senior player here.
We've gone from what was effectively a 3-1 with 2 of our blokes having a clear run at the footy, to being on the cusp of losing this clearance through a holding the ball.
Image 7
And the tackle gets laid. LDU and Daniel are still ball watching. I don't know how or why, but they are. We're cooked here through no fault but our own. Daniel positions himself where he cannot influence at all, and LDU is still 1m away screaming for a handball while not facing the play. Remember we're going backwards here, and handballing to a bloke who has to u turn is a cardinal sin.
Image 8
I don't think people appreciate how good Jy's work is here. Our only hope out of this contest is for him to break the tackle and that's exactly what he does.
LDU still doesn't consider laying a block on the Richmond pursuer. Again, unacceptable.
Images 9 and 10
Again...no block. I won't say anything.
Thankfully, someone who can read the play intervenes. LMac comes streaming off the half back flank for a handball receive, and pumps the ball for the clearance.
Despite our best attempts to **** that up, we somehow came away with a pretty good clearance thanks to Simpkin and McDonald.
Stoppage 1
This one only needs one image. Again, we got saved. A poor throw in means the ball goes straight out of bounds again.
Scott and Daniel here...no communication whatsoever. Look at that dangerous space directly behind the ruckmen, in the corridor, close to Richmond's half forward flank. If that ball falls to the back, either through tap or other means, we're cooked.
Thankfully that didn't happen and the ball went out of bounds for a reset.
Stoppage 2
This stoppage is another example of...wtf. As you can see, it's early in the game as well. So there's no reason for us to be this lazy and switched off.
Image 1
The setup immediately after the previous one is better. Stephens and Sheezel move to cover dangerous corridor space.
Image 2
We've got a heavily defensively weight setup (to the left of screen), our best bet is to take this out the back of the stoppage and then move inboard. Powell and Daniel will need to work hard to be able to do so, yet I'm not sure they've realised the play, and what they need to do, as you'll see when this unfolds.
Image 3
The ball kind of falls to the feet and spits out to the defensive side. LDU has misread it, which happens. It keeps rolling leftward.
Images 4 and 5
Powell was our out the back representation at that stoppage and it gets past him. Luckily we have Scott there who collects.
Unfortunately with LDU's misread and Powell being covered, the onus here is on Daniel first and then Jy to provide an option.
Daniel doesn't spread. He just stands there, facing backwards but not moving (not a good spot for a receive). Jy presents the best option which you'll see in the following images.
Image 6
Now Jy has received - Powell and Daniel REALLY need to work to get out the back of the stoppage and provide a release. Scott needs to lay a shepherd.
None of this happen.
Powell and Daniel position themselves behind two Richmond players and just simply do not work hard enough to be an option. Powell needs to work about two metres to his left. Scott just fades out of the contest.
Image 7
Powell stamps his feet here when he is correctly not used, and as you can see, he's still not in a position for a handball receive. A bizarre misunderstanding of what's required here. Jy has to u-turn back into 3 Richmond players.
Image 8
Not for the first time, Jy manages to do what was close to impossible. With no outlets at the back of the contest, he just breaks the tackle and u-turns. He gets a kick down the line which gets spoiled out of play.
What could have been a really clean inboard corridor/switch exit turns into a down-the-line through selfish acts and blokes not working hard enough for their mates, again.
Image 9
And he either lets them know, or expresses confusion about them trying to pretend they were an actual option to help him out in that contest.
Centre bounce 2
This one is actually a pretty clean exit. I like to show the good stuff we do as well. The crucial element to this is holding position as a sweeper.
Image 1:
The setup is pretty standard, although there's an absolute paddock behind the ruckmen toward Stephens' wing. Richmond will intend to run through there, and Jy should let them do it as sweeper, and trust his mates to pressure up ahead.
Image 2
And that's where the ball goes. It's forward for us, and Richmond will have to exit out the back if they want to get this clearance.
Images 3 and 4
Xerri, the animal, beats everyone out to to the ball. His value can't be understated here. A less savvy ruckman gets beaten out by the mids and they use their wing to exit. You'll see Jy is letting his man drift into the contest, and three Richmond players get sucked into trying to beat out Xerri. This is the bees to a honeypot stuff you normally see us doing, except this time we're backing our player in to win the footy.
Image 5
Something inexplicable happens - the ball somehow just shoots backward.
Thankfully we have a sweeper who held his space at the back of the contest, right?
Image 6
Right.
Here he is, and he gets a clean receive. Parker then laid a shepherd for him, and he exits well. This is a really good example of two smart midfielders working with each other rather than playing for themselves.
Part 2 below!
Attachments
- Apr 19, 2019
- 13,662
- 45,719
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Thread starter
- #178
!!!Part 2 and conclusion vs Richmond
Final quarter stoppage - game on the line
I know I skipped over 2.5 quarters in this post, but if you can see the poor quality of our clearances work (total numbers aside), you can imagine what it was like during the portion of the game we lost badly in. The chickens came home to roost.
But here is some good, selfless work.
Game on the line - Harry is our stoppage spare, and Richmond's is to the left of the rucks. Probably a good weighting given the stage of the game.
Image 2
The tap gets won by Xerri, who hits to our numbers.
Now, early in the game, this is where we might have all ball hunted. Harry, Parker and George would've all gunned for it. But that's not what happens here.
Image 3
Harry spreads in case he needs to relieve pressure from George. And Parker calls George into it, immediately turning his attention to laying the block.
Image 4
A better image of the result of Parker's block here.
George gets the cleanest of clearances and then absolutely mungs the kick.
But the point of this is the selflessness - it's night and day to the first few we went through, and it was the difference between a bloke getting pressure, tackled, and having to rush an option, and one having a Schimma like break away from the contest.
Conclusion
All in all, in my review I was left pretty disappointed. We saw how well selflessness worked for us last week against one of the best sides in the comp, and we shifted back to glory seeking, easy-option type stuff against Richmond. Lots to work on, but last week showed our potential.
Final quarter stoppage - game on the line
I know I skipped over 2.5 quarters in this post, but if you can see the poor quality of our clearances work (total numbers aside), you can imagine what it was like during the portion of the game we lost badly in. The chickens came home to roost.
But here is some good, selfless work.
Game on the line - Harry is our stoppage spare, and Richmond's is to the left of the rucks. Probably a good weighting given the stage of the game.
Image 2
The tap gets won by Xerri, who hits to our numbers.
Now, early in the game, this is where we might have all ball hunted. Harry, Parker and George would've all gunned for it. But that's not what happens here.
Image 3
Harry spreads in case he needs to relieve pressure from George. And Parker calls George into it, immediately turning his attention to laying the block.
Image 4
A better image of the result of Parker's block here.
George gets the cleanest of clearances and then absolutely mungs the kick.
But the point of this is the selflessness - it's night and day to the first few we went through, and it was the difference between a bloke getting pressure, tackled, and having to rush an option, and one having a Schimma like break away from the contest.
Conclusion
All in all, in my review I was left pretty disappointed. We saw how well selflessness worked for us last week against one of the best sides in the comp, and we shifted back to glory seeking, easy-option type stuff against Richmond. Lots to work on, but last week showed our potential.
Chadwiko
The Captain!
- Sep 25, 2004
- 30,324
- 54,021
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Other Teams
- Washington Commanders, Boston Celtics
Great analysis Themanbun and I strongly concur.
I told people our midfield was poor this week, especially throughout the 2nd and 3rd quarters, only to have people come back with "but we smashed them in the clearance numbers!" as if that proved anything.
So I'm very pleased to see you identified the issues and saw them as well.
Good work as always mate.
I told people our midfield was poor this week, especially throughout the 2nd and 3rd quarters, only to have people come back with "but we smashed them in the clearance numbers!" as if that proved anything.
So I'm very pleased to see you identified the issues and saw them as well.
Good work as always mate.
Log in to remove this Banner Ad
Chadwiko
The Captain!
- Sep 25, 2004
- 30,324
- 54,021
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Other Teams
- Washington Commanders, Boston Celtics
Rod Stroker come read this post/thread mate 
ChopChopDigDig
Premium Gold
North Melbourne - 2025 Griffen Logue Player Sponsor
North Melbourne - 2024 Hugh Greenwood Player Sponsor
Veteran
North Melbourne - 2020 Taylor Garner and Flynn Perez Player Sponsor
North Melbourne - 2020 Aileen Gilroy Player Sponsor
North Melbourne - 2019 Bailey Scott and Jy Simpkin Player Sponsor
North Melbourne - 2018 Luke Davies-Uniacke and Paul Ahern Player Sponsor
North Melbourne - 2017 Junker and Wagner Player Sponsor
- Jun 3, 2013
- 3,459
- 10,270
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
Thanks Themanbun, it’s so obvious watching on tv our mids don’t do enough without ball in hand, they almost never Shepard or block for one another. Even in open play we’re streaming down the wing and our spare player will just let the 1:1 happen rather than put themselves in the way to leave their teammate with a clear run. Basic local footy stuff not being done by our afl players.
- Apr 19, 2019
- 13,662
- 45,719
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Thread starter
- #182
Indeed! As brilliant as Jy was busting through tackles and winning 3 on 1 contests (and therefore winning us a clearance stat), I'm not sure it's a sustainable thing for us to rely on long term. We need to do the bread and butter work much, much better.
Wouldn't have thought too many things would be highlighted as good this week. Game was a bit of a mess. However, if TH did the same work on Richmond I am sure it wouldn't be pretty. There is a reason we are both in the bottom 4.
tazaa
Hall of Famer
Love this TMB
Had me nodding and agreeing as I read all the way through.
I just couldn't bring myself to be super happy at the end of the fourth quarter on Sunday as I knew we got away with one.
One thing I said was we were going to get angry Jy in the first quarter and I am glad we did as he set up a few of our attacks.
Angry Jy is the best Jy.
As we can see through the numbers you posted around CBA attendances, we took Wardlaw out to accommodate Sheezel and more of Powell.
We also saw less of LDU and Parker.
My belief is that Parker should always be in there with X, LDU has to be by default and then George. We need to make this mix work.
Clearly the club wants Sheezel in there and Powell as well, and then Jy demands a run - don't mind the idea but is this practical? Are we setting ourselves up for success?
And here's the other question. Do we have too many midfielders in the side?
LDU hardly saw any influence in the 2nd quarter and I wonder if he was stuck at half forward. Same for Parker.
He was so influential in the middle against Brisbane and then was nowhere to be seen against Richmond.
Cant have blokes like LDU and Parker being quiet for so long.
Fingers crossed we sort this out and there is a correction on the weekend again, but the midfield unit is far from a perfect combination and we're up against a side this week who will get you in the middle or off half back. Choose your poison.
Last edited:
- Apr 19, 2019
- 13,662
- 45,719
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Thread starter
- #185
It's an interesting question and one we'll battle with for years I reckon.
Of the blokes who've had a decent run in the guts this year, for me a top 4 has emerged (in their midfield work, not as general players) and then there's daylight between them and the rest.
Wardlaw
LDU
Jy
Parker
Jy has performed better than Parker but Parker sets us up better. I'd say Jy is probably Parker's successor in that role that Parker plays as the blocker so that buys us 3-6 years there.
Those four should, IMO, be getting the most minutes, and if any of Sheezel, Powell, Phillips miss out on midfield minutes then I'm not too fussed.
We seem to be training Powell and Sheezel as a defensive and outlet type sweeper at the back of a contest but neither of them look natural in that role.
Colby will soon demand midfield minutes (and IMO should already be) and probably FOS as well.
The elephant in the room is that for the sake of youth we are probably squeezing two mids into that top 4 mid rotation, who don't really deserve to be there on performance to date. But as you say, are we setting ourselves up for success through that? I dunno. I have more questions than answers about what the best mix is.
LDU is a gun but is also hard for other mids to play around. Some weeks he's a selfless defensive animal and then other weeks he hangs his mates out to dry so he can ball hunt. It even fluctuates within games. But I agree, he's too good to just leave out of that mix.
Dingster
TheBrownDog
- Apr 19, 2019
- 13,662
- 45,719
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Thread starter
- #187
CBA stats can be a bit misleading for North in particular. We almost always run one half forward as a midfielder (he just sits out the centre bounces) and we push a half back up to the back of the contest as well more often than not. Both those roles are as much work as being a midfielder, if not more, since you're not expected to rest when the ball is in the forward 50.
Thanks Themanbun once again your posts highlight that we are inconsistent with the 'team things' especially around the contest. The subtle body blocks, shepherds, all those little 1%'ers add up across the course of a game and can be the difference between clean clearances, deep forward entries and rushed hacks forward.
Powell, Scott, LDU, Daniel, Zurhaar, Sheezel and Simpkin are the main ones who drive me bananas for not doing those little team things to help one another out. Parker, Wardlaw, Curtis, O'Sullivan, Phillips (when in the side) and Konstanty are the ones that seemingly do all those small things on a consistent basis.
On the plus side I've seen a noticeable improvement from Stephens and McKercher in recent weeks relating to those small team things.
Powell, Scott, LDU, Daniel, Zurhaar, Sheezel and Simpkin are the main ones who drive me bananas for not doing those little team things to help one another out. Parker, Wardlaw, Curtis, O'Sullivan, Phillips (when in the side) and Konstanty are the ones that seemingly do all those small things on a consistent basis.
On the plus side I've seen a noticeable improvement from Stephens and McKercher in recent weeks relating to those small team things.
I tell you what, Mr Bun, you've certainly got me looking a lot more closely at how a midfield needs to work to be successful.
tazaa
Hall of Famer
Looking at those 4 - George is probably 100% midfielder when he's on the ground. Otherwise he is having a spell. Clarko said post game he wasn't his best, but I think he wasn't his impactful self due to reduced minutes in the middle. He was just out of the action for too long IMO.
Not the best use of the kid.
LDU for me when on the ground can split his time between the midfield 90% and then playing out of the goal square.
Except he has never been the best contested mark, and our current forward set up is the talls play deep and the smalls push up to the flanks. So LDU playing forward is a total waste of time as we don't even clear out the 50 for him when he is down there.
To me this is stupid coaching. If Larkey has a sook, so be it. Go get your rest if you don't want to vacate the 50 but LDU has to play deep or come off the ground.
Parker is one you can split his time on ground 67-33 between middle and half forward. He is old enough and experienced enough to not go missing when he's not in the middle and he knows how to find the goals.
Right now though for structure, discipline and leadership - you probably demand he starts in the centre to ensure we stay on track. Influence here is crucial.
Jy I think we can afford to pigeon hold at half forward 67-33, in the reverse of Parker as he is good in traffic and I reckon Jy's best impact in the middle is short bursts, especially when we're on a bit of a run. He is great in traffic and moving up and down the ground, however he is also a see ball-get ball type akin to LDU and Wardlaw, and based off this alone we probably cant afford to have all 3 in there. As much as George's defensive stuff is great- he is still like a bull to a red coat when it comes to the Sherrin.
As for the Powell and Sheezel projects - Clarko simply needs to choose 1.
I don't think we can do what we did on the weekend in managing them both in the middle without hurting ourselves structure wise. If LDU and George need a chop out - throw one in there.
Harry prefers to play forward so similar to Jy, if he plays 67-33 forward then has a run in the middle - structurally we stand up well.
Powell for me is a centre square mid and that only. He gets lost on the wing or at half-forward. Even at half back. Its not his strength and trying to accommodate that in the past has not worked. Its a failed move.
Similar to Phillips who also is a centre square mid and isn't really solid anywhere else on the ground, it begs the question about list management and our recruitment and as you said - trying to fit in McKerchar and FOS in there in the years ahead. Parker won't be there forever, and neither will Jy who will probably go full time forward. So who drops out?
That's why the criticism of Brady has been so loud. There is a clear imbalance and eventually Clarko needs to do what Bevo and Goodwin did and that is ask certain players to sacrifice their game and become role players for the sake of the sides success.
I don't think this group has that level of selflessness in them just yet and that's the next step we need to take in our development.
On top of winning.
- Jun 17, 2017
- 10,233
- 29,528
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Other Teams
- Liverpool FC
So the only bloke who laid a block in all of that learned how to do it at Sydney, not with us. Excellent.
Wonder if it ever gets brought up. It'd have to, wouldn't it? And yet we do the same selfish shit week in, week out, and sometimes get away with it on talent alone.
Wonder if it ever gets brought up. It'd have to, wouldn't it? And yet we do the same selfish shit week in, week out, and sometimes get away with it on talent alone.
- Apr 19, 2019
- 13,662
- 45,719
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Thread starter
- #192
!!!Post vs Collingwood!!!
Deja vu - we're at it again
I'm only going through three what I think are an illustrative three this week. It was painful, particularly that last quarter.
Collingwood are a transition team. They stayed in the game through their excellent rebound work. But a crucial couple of centre bounces in the last quarter let them break the game open. We need to do better. We'll start with one good, and end with two poor efforts.
Stoppage 1 - Second Quarter
I'll start with a pleasant one. In this stoppage, we are clearly communicating. You can see the importance of McDonald as someone who understands how to organise from behind the ball. We know our plan, we don't try any hero shit, we get a clearance and inside 50, and it works.
Image 1
It starts with a stoppage on our forward 50.
We set up pretty well here. There is something I'll point out in the next image. However, you can see McDonald and Daniel organising us. We are at the 'springboard' section of the ground. While it's dangerous for Collingwood if we win the clearance, it's also dangerous for us if they win it, as this is the part of the ground where most score launches begin.
Daniel, McDonald and one of our wingers seem to cover off the corridor really well (green). Our exits are narrow but organise (blue), we can either go directly back, behind the stoppage, for Caleb Daniel to hit up a forward. Or we can go out to the right of screen and hit the pocket.
Collingwood's exit is behind the stoppage and into a very dangerous place for them if we can force a turnover. Overall, a really solid setup that strengthens our exit options and makes theirs very risk.
Image 2 - Collingwood want to widen the ground
This image is virtually the same shot with different markups. Collingwood know they need to exit the back of the contest. So we need to be alive to the fact that they will have someone burst through towards our goal, to hit their spare out the back. Then, as you can see from the positioning here, they will want to spread laterally and widen the ground. This is how they make the most of a bad situation and it's what makes them such an organised side. Yes, they have to exit the stoppage out the back, toward our goal. But IF they successfully do that, they have blokes who are going to beat us laterally and we won't be able to stop their spread.
Image 3
Remember how we discussed that they would seek to burst through the stoppage from front to back and hit that spare? Daicos is the one who's doing that.
Image 4
But he doesn't win the footy. LDU does. And LDU does something which I've noticed seems to correlate with us going well. He doesn't attempt the hero play to break through the stoppage and take on 4 or 5 blokes. He extracts, and IMMEDIATELY looks for our sweeper out the back, which is Jy.
Images 5 and 6
Who then IMMEDIATELY looks for the next layer out the back, which is Daniel. And Powell lays a nice block to give him some room. Daniel gets the pill, kicks a tumbler which Larkey marks and goals from. Overall some smart TEAMwork.
Quarter 4 - two crucial centre bounces
Centre bounce 1
This setup is interesting. Jy is a sweeper but is tight. Wardlaw is on Daicos, arm on body, so that's some tight attention. LDU is our hit to.
Image 2
Our exit pathways are clearly defined. The tap will fall in front of Xerri's body. Very predictable. What was not predictable to the rest of our mids is the way our hit-to moves.
Ideally, you want your hit to in this situation to move through the green arrow's lane. He gets the benefit of a block from the ruckman AND from Wardlaw at the front of the stoppage (this role is often called a blocker for this reason) and gets a clean exit.
Red is where you don't want to go. You block the sweeper's vision, you expose yourself to pressure from the opposition ruck. And if you don't impact, you've left a void behind you for the opposition to exit through.
Image 3
And that's what unfolds. LDU burns through the wrong part of the stoppage and fails to impact, taking his teammates out in the process. Jy as sweeper gets sucked in and then to make things worse blocked by LDU himself, so he can't impact the play. He should have stayed out where I've put the green circle.
Naicos identifies this, and is beginning to try to get some space from Wardlaw to exit via the paddock.
Image 4
A Collingwood player recognises Wardlaw is giving Naicos some tight attention, so he actually gets the pill first and Naicos understands the intent. Instead of giving straight away, he draws Wardlaw, who has no support thanks to LDU and Jy displaying very poor midfield craft, and Daicos is free to receive and deliver inside 50.
Collingwood goal.
Quarter 4 - Centre bounce 2
And then we follow it up with some more poor work.
In this setup Parker is the hit-to. Jy is sweeping. LDU is at the front of the stoppage (the 'blocker' role).
But...our man at the front of the stoppage decides to burn through it. I don't particularly like this play even when it comes off, because your only available exit is the sweeper (if free) or a u-turn and sky a punt for a shallow forward 50 entry.
The blue arrow is where the ball is intended to go, as you can see Xerri setting up for. But LDU takes off.
Coming through the stoppage like this forces your hit-to to stay out of it, and unfortunately they are often in a useless position. What it also does is mean that all 4 of your midfield - the sweeper, the ruck, the hit-to and the blocker are now pushed out to one side of the stoppage.
In plays like this, the bloke who makes the decision to come through at speed to the detriment of the setup and plan simply MUST win that footy.
But alas, we do not. Collingwood win it, and have numbers out the back.
Weirdly, their player tries to bust through the front of the setup instead of using the numbers. So there's some poor work from them here as well, which is why they were so gettable if we just showed the right mental discipline.
LDU to his credit follows up his work and lays a tackle, but it's not effective and the ball spills out to their runner.
Who collects, delivers inside 50 to Tim Membey, who goals. Game is done and dusted then and there.
Conclusion
Throughout my reviews I'm sure we're all getting the theme. When we work for each other, communicate, lay blocks and have a plan, we tend to go alright. When we show little discipline and go for the hero play, which many of our players are admittedly physically capable of pulling off, we tend to fall apart pretty quickly. This game was no different.
Sometimes you just need to get the pill and extract it to the blokes on the outside who have time and space to deliver with precision. It's simple, it's not sexy, but it works. Bursting through stoppages looks sick when you pull it off, but more often than not even when you win that clearance, your delivery is pressured and shallow anyway. Some teams are happy to let blokes take that risk, and a few teams this year have been happy to eat some high clearance numbers from our star midfield, knowing that they will be able to punish us with regularity when they win the clearance themselves.
Lots to work on, still.
Deja vu - we're at it again
I'm only going through three what I think are an illustrative three this week. It was painful, particularly that last quarter.
Collingwood are a transition team. They stayed in the game through their excellent rebound work. But a crucial couple of centre bounces in the last quarter let them break the game open. We need to do better. We'll start with one good, and end with two poor efforts.
Stoppage 1 - Second Quarter
I'll start with a pleasant one. In this stoppage, we are clearly communicating. You can see the importance of McDonald as someone who understands how to organise from behind the ball. We know our plan, we don't try any hero shit, we get a clearance and inside 50, and it works.
Image 1
It starts with a stoppage on our forward 50.
We set up pretty well here. There is something I'll point out in the next image. However, you can see McDonald and Daniel organising us. We are at the 'springboard' section of the ground. While it's dangerous for Collingwood if we win the clearance, it's also dangerous for us if they win it, as this is the part of the ground where most score launches begin.
Daniel, McDonald and one of our wingers seem to cover off the corridor really well (green). Our exits are narrow but organise (blue), we can either go directly back, behind the stoppage, for Caleb Daniel to hit up a forward. Or we can go out to the right of screen and hit the pocket.
Collingwood's exit is behind the stoppage and into a very dangerous place for them if we can force a turnover. Overall, a really solid setup that strengthens our exit options and makes theirs very risk.
Image 2 - Collingwood want to widen the ground
This image is virtually the same shot with different markups. Collingwood know they need to exit the back of the contest. So we need to be alive to the fact that they will have someone burst through towards our goal, to hit their spare out the back. Then, as you can see from the positioning here, they will want to spread laterally and widen the ground. This is how they make the most of a bad situation and it's what makes them such an organised side. Yes, they have to exit the stoppage out the back, toward our goal. But IF they successfully do that, they have blokes who are going to beat us laterally and we won't be able to stop their spread.
Image 3
Remember how we discussed that they would seek to burst through the stoppage from front to back and hit that spare? Daicos is the one who's doing that.
Image 4
But he doesn't win the footy. LDU does. And LDU does something which I've noticed seems to correlate with us going well. He doesn't attempt the hero play to break through the stoppage and take on 4 or 5 blokes. He extracts, and IMMEDIATELY looks for our sweeper out the back, which is Jy.
Images 5 and 6
Who then IMMEDIATELY looks for the next layer out the back, which is Daniel. And Powell lays a nice block to give him some room. Daniel gets the pill, kicks a tumbler which Larkey marks and goals from. Overall some smart TEAMwork.
Quarter 4 - two crucial centre bounces
Centre bounce 1
This setup is interesting. Jy is a sweeper but is tight. Wardlaw is on Daicos, arm on body, so that's some tight attention. LDU is our hit to.
Image 2
Our exit pathways are clearly defined. The tap will fall in front of Xerri's body. Very predictable. What was not predictable to the rest of our mids is the way our hit-to moves.
Ideally, you want your hit to in this situation to move through the green arrow's lane. He gets the benefit of a block from the ruckman AND from Wardlaw at the front of the stoppage (this role is often called a blocker for this reason) and gets a clean exit.
Red is where you don't want to go. You block the sweeper's vision, you expose yourself to pressure from the opposition ruck. And if you don't impact, you've left a void behind you for the opposition to exit through.
Image 3
And that's what unfolds. LDU burns through the wrong part of the stoppage and fails to impact, taking his teammates out in the process. Jy as sweeper gets sucked in and then to make things worse blocked by LDU himself, so he can't impact the play. He should have stayed out where I've put the green circle.
Naicos identifies this, and is beginning to try to get some space from Wardlaw to exit via the paddock.
Image 4
A Collingwood player recognises Wardlaw is giving Naicos some tight attention, so he actually gets the pill first and Naicos understands the intent. Instead of giving straight away, he draws Wardlaw, who has no support thanks to LDU and Jy displaying very poor midfield craft, and Daicos is free to receive and deliver inside 50.
Collingwood goal.
Quarter 4 - Centre bounce 2
And then we follow it up with some more poor work.
In this setup Parker is the hit-to. Jy is sweeping. LDU is at the front of the stoppage (the 'blocker' role).
But...our man at the front of the stoppage decides to burn through it. I don't particularly like this play even when it comes off, because your only available exit is the sweeper (if free) or a u-turn and sky a punt for a shallow forward 50 entry.
The blue arrow is where the ball is intended to go, as you can see Xerri setting up for. But LDU takes off.
Coming through the stoppage like this forces your hit-to to stay out of it, and unfortunately they are often in a useless position. What it also does is mean that all 4 of your midfield - the sweeper, the ruck, the hit-to and the blocker are now pushed out to one side of the stoppage.
In plays like this, the bloke who makes the decision to come through at speed to the detriment of the setup and plan simply MUST win that footy.
But alas, we do not. Collingwood win it, and have numbers out the back.
Weirdly, their player tries to bust through the front of the setup instead of using the numbers. So there's some poor work from them here as well, which is why they were so gettable if we just showed the right mental discipline.
LDU to his credit follows up his work and lays a tackle, but it's not effective and the ball spills out to their runner.
Who collects, delivers inside 50 to Tim Membey, who goals. Game is done and dusted then and there.
Conclusion
Throughout my reviews I'm sure we're all getting the theme. When we work for each other, communicate, lay blocks and have a plan, we tend to go alright. When we show little discipline and go for the hero play, which many of our players are admittedly physically capable of pulling off, we tend to fall apart pretty quickly. This game was no different.
Sometimes you just need to get the pill and extract it to the blokes on the outside who have time and space to deliver with precision. It's simple, it's not sexy, but it works. Bursting through stoppages looks sick when you pull it off, but more often than not even when you win that clearance, your delivery is pressured and shallow anyway. Some teams are happy to let blokes take that risk, and a few teams this year have been happy to eat some high clearance numbers from our star midfield, knowing that they will be able to punish us with regularity when they win the clearance themselves.
Lots to work on, still.
Attachments
Last edited:
Chadwiko
The Captain!
- Sep 25, 2004
- 30,324
- 54,021
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Other Teams
- Washington Commanders, Boston Celtics
I agree; Will Phillips needs to play.
Love your work as always mate!
If you get a chance have a look at some of the stoppages on our half forward line early in the last quarter, the way in which Collingwood cut us to pieces and how unaccountable our midfielder and half forwards were. It was embarrassing to say the least.
Do you feel like our midfielders are far slower to react on the turnover compared to other midfielders? I feel like we are very proactive when we win around the stoppages but don't have that same intent when the ball is in the oppositions hands.
Also, on a side note, I blooooooody hate when I see Simpkin in the middle as a sweeper. He is the worst at it and far too often gets sucked into the contest and leaves us short on the defensive side. It happens in the center and around the ground stoppages. He gets caught ball watching way too much.
If you get a chance have a look at some of the stoppages on our half forward line early in the last quarter, the way in which Collingwood cut us to pieces and how unaccountable our midfielder and half forwards were. It was embarrassing to say the least.
Do you feel like our midfielders are far slower to react on the turnover compared to other midfielders? I feel like we are very proactive when we win around the stoppages but don't have that same intent when the ball is in the oppositions hands.
Also, on a side note, I blooooooody hate when I see Simpkin in the middle as a sweeper. He is the worst at it and far too often gets sucked into the contest and leaves us short on the defensive side. It happens in the center and around the ground stoppages. He gets caught ball watching way too much.
🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.
- Apr 19, 2019
- 13,662
- 45,719
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Thread starter
- #195
They were on my list to go through on here, but the bounces made the cut this time. I definitely agree, and I agree with Clarkson when he says we put the cue in the rack. We did big time.
There is a saying for stoppage midfielders that is probably what I would consider one of the basic 4 rules. They are:
• if you need to rest on field while still in the midfield, rest defensively (doesn't apply as much at AFL level due to very organized rotations).
• D50 in, F50 out. Basically midfielders attend D50 stoppages, but set the wall up and let the forwards cook in the F50.
• When the ball goes up, the balls of your feet go down
• Aim to be the first to exit any stoppage
The last one gets to your point. We're only good at it one way. Good sides are good at it both ways. It's why our defenders seem to get caught 1:1 more than other sides and it's also why, when we win a stoppage but turn it over, the opposition seems to have a lot of numbers at half back to springboard their transition.
Chadwiko
The Captain!
- Sep 25, 2004
- 30,324
- 54,021
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Other Teams
- Washington Commanders, Boston Celtics
Themanbun curious to see what your midfield analysis of this game yields, because watching today I think the 4th quarter structure was a lot different to what we saw in the first three quarters.
I haven't re-watched the game yet, so keen to see when you do your analysis if this bears true;
And LDU had a stinker.
I've previously been pretty vocal that I prefer Sheezel in the back six and setting us up moving forward on the rebound, but I thought he was very good on the ball in that 4th quarter so I'm happy to cop that I might be wrong about that one.
I haven't re-watched the game yet, so keen to see when you do your analysis if this bears true;
- First three quarters (roughly) of the game, the midfield was largely Xerri, LDU, Powell, then a mix of Wardlaw/Parker/Simpkin (but mostly LDU/Powell)
- Last quarter, we used Parker and Sheezel a lot more in the midfield instead of Powell/Wardlaw, and suddenly the ball use and structure looked a LOT better.
And LDU had a stinker.
I've previously been pretty vocal that I prefer Sheezel in the back six and setting us up moving forward on the rebound, but I thought he was very good on the ball in that 4th quarter so I'm happy to cop that I might be wrong about that one.
Alongside my man Rick the best weekly analysis you can consume. Hope all is well and I’m interested to know how we turned out contest advantage from a limited benefit to setting up our victory in the last qtr.
Felt like we used our hands more in the contest rather than dump kicking.
shintemaster
Brownlow Medallist
Sheezel has been a bit off this year so makes sense we haven't gone hard on him in the middle. I do wonder whether he also is more likely to impact late 2nd quarter and later in the game as he has great endurance and not the greatest top line speed. Might be worth playing him Fwd/HHF or HBF for part of games then rolling him in strategically - if the game is the bag for us (ha!) we can keep him out and preserve the body a bit, whilst putting him in there when it counts and wins are available.
giantroo
Bleeding Blue and White
North Melbourne - 2025 Bella Eddy Player Sponsor
North Melbourne - 2025 Griffen Logue Player Sponsor
North Melbourne - 2024 Hugh Greenwood Player Sponsor
Veteran
North Melbourne - 2023 Ailish Considine and Bella Eddy Player Sponsor
North Melbourne Season 7 - Bella Eddey and Vicki Wall Player Sponsor
North Melbourne - 2023 Aaron Hall and Flynn Perez Player Sponsor
10k Posts
