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Opinion Travis Varcoe

Assuming Varcoe is worth pick 10 in any draft, would you trade him?

  • Yes

    Votes: 48 39.7%

  • No

    Votes: 30 24.8%

  • Get stuffed Meto

    Votes: 43 35.5%
  • Total voters
    121

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Partridge said:
Exactly. If all the criticisms were "Varcoe is shit" etc. it's a valid point. But pretty much none say that. Most if not all are simply saying he should have to regain form in the VFL just like any other player should. The problem is, it now seems that there's a glass ceiling with some players will simply never be dropped. That's can't be a positive thing.
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Which of the following explanations for Varcoe's continued selection sounds more plausible to you?

1. The match committee, rightly or wrongly, believe that he is still doing enough to merit selection in our best 22.

2. Chris Scott and co have introduced a new selection policy predicated on an in-principle objection to the dropping of certain players.
 
Baudolino said:
Which of the following explanations for Varcoe's continued selection sounds more plausible to you?

1. The match committee, rightly or wrongly, believe that he is still doing enough to merit selection in our best 22.

2. Chris Scott and co have introduced a new selection policy predicated on an in-principle objection to the dropping of certain players.
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3. The match committee believe his best football is absolutely essential for the team.

Unfortunately, he gets lenience and leeway for poor performances far above any other player. And once you've played more than 120 games (which he has), you have to get the ball more than 13 times a game if you're a midfielder.
 

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First of all, I don't reckon Varcoe is worth a top 15 draft pick, let alone pick #10.
He has a heap of potential, and during his youth people had high expectations of him. However, he hasn't lived up to the hype. He has played a handful of good games (e.g. 2011 Grand Final), but other than that, he hasn't been extraordinary. One thing that has held him back is injuries, especially when I thought he was due for a personal best season in 2012. After showing promise in the previous year's GF, he got injured early in 2012, and has never really played that well since. I think that if he works on improving his all-round game, he could prove to be a valuable player, but if our list management team think that he won't ever live up to the hype, I think they should trade him before he ages too much to attract interest from other clubs.
 
someday-somehow said:
Was put up for trade and attracted little interest- what does that say?.

he runs past the ball too often - he doesn't keep it in front of him (football 101) you don't see that reflected in stats. His run and carry is becomming less important now because I don't think he is as quick as he once was. He's a good kick for goal - that's a plus but in my mind one or two decent games a year is not enough to carry him through the rest. Has he ever been in the best 3 on the ground - ever had a brownlow vote?

I don't doubt he tries hard - but I agree with most punters here that suggest he shirks the contest too often - and in the modern game you cannot have players that do that.

He needs an extended stay in the VFL.
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All too true someday-somehow
Dockers smashed us in contested ball - they were electric around the contest. Their Mids also invite the tackle and are great at absorbing the contact and dishing off effectively. It was embarassing watching Travis circle the contest in the hope of getting it dished out to him - that's Under 10's footy and effectively leaves us one short at the contest.
You have to match the Dockers mids in the contest - GHS did this very well and racked up 30 touches and a goal and he's played how many games?
I watched Travis closely at the game and whilst I am a fan I'll admit his performance was insipid and for a 26YO he's just not doing enough.
Been a while since I played but one thing that hasn't changed if it's your turn to put the body on the line you go.
 
Farmer2Goggin said:
All too true someday-somehow
Dockers smashed us in contested ball - they were electric around the contest. Their Mids also invite the tackle and are great at absorbing the contact and dishing off effectively. It was embarassing watching Travis circle the contest in the hope of getting it dished out to him - that's Under 10's footy and effectively leaves us one short at the contest.
You have to match the Dockers mids in the contest - GHS did this very well and racked up 30 touches and a goal and he's played how many games?
I watched Travis closely at the game and whilst I am a fan I'll admit his performance was insipid and for a 26YO he's just not doing enough.
Been a while since I played but one thing that hasn't changed if it's your turn to put the body on the line you go.
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Spot on. Note too that Varcoe's place in the team last year arguably kept GHS out. The rest is history.

Varcoe's selection is holding the club back. If a player like GHS had another 10-15 games under his belt, he'd undoubtedly be better. Varcoe's best is clearly behind him, he should be forced to earn his place in the side. Poor player management however you look at it.
 
PatrickBateman said:
Spot on. Note too that Varcoe's place in the team last year arguably kept GHS out. The rest is history.

Varcoe's selection is holding the club back. If a player like GHS had another 10-15 games under his belt, he'd undoubtedly be better. Varcoe's best is clearly behind him, he should be forced to earn his place in the side. Poor player management however you look at it.
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Problem is, Horlin-Smith is everything players aren't supposed to be now. He's not fast, he's not flashy, he's not huge, he's not magically skilled, he doesn't produce wizardry, and he isn't from another country or another sport. He is unfortunately just a footballer. A tough and composed one, with a remarkably mature head on his shoulders. Those qualities are almost ignored, and have been for him, until he's now racking up numbers in the seniors so much people have had to notice him.
 
Varcoe's contribution should not be forgotten, but also not overstated. His last quarter in the 2009 was useful as St Kilda clearly tired. Varcoe's legs were useful.

His 2011 Grand Final was actually not all that great - he kicked the first two goals, and the goal to put us 20 up in the final quarter (a great running effort, "Coast to Coast"), but went missing for two quarters --> and THAT is the story of his career thus far. He surges, but then goes quiet for half a game and a serious midfielder needs to stay involved for at least 3.5 quarters consistently!

In 2008 when I went to a match, an opposition supporter made the comment, "He's fantastic when he hasn't got the ball" and I agree. His pressure is okay, but he too often wastes the ball, and doesn't get enough of it for a Top 10 draft pick. He should be an on-field leader. He is far from it.

IMO, while he still has currency, trade him for a second round pick, or a young player. Geelong has a great culture that cultivates quality young players.
We won't miss Varcoe that much as he is really only a peripheral player, and we can use his spot for a young player that we can develop long term.

We've done so well in retiring or trading players at the right time - I think Varcoe would do best with a move to another club as well.
 
uranium_death said:
Varcoe's contribution should not be forgotten, but also not overstated. His last quarter in the 2009 was useful as St Kilda clearly tired. Varcoe's legs were useful.

His 2011 Grand Final was actually not all that great - he kicked the first two goals, and the goal to put us 20 up in the final quarter (a great running effort, "Coast to Coast"), but went missing for two quarters --> and THAT is the story of his career thus far. He surges, but then goes quiet for half a game and a serious midfielder needs to stay involved for at least 3.5 quarters consistently!

In 2008 when I went to a match, an opposition supporter made the comment, "He's fantastic when he hasn't got the ball" and I agree. His pressure is okay, but he too often wastes the ball, and doesn't get enough of it for a Top 10 draft pick. He should be an on-field leader. He is far from it.

IMO, while he still has currency, trade him for a second round pick, or a young player. Geelong has a great culture that cultivates quality young players.
We won't miss Varcoe that much as he is really only a peripheral player, and we can use his spot for a young player that we can develop long term.

We've done so well in retiring or trading players at the right time - I think Varcoe would do best with a move to another club as well.
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good in theory - he was put on the trade table at the end of last season and no one expressed any interest in him.
 

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Partridge said:
Exactly. If all the criticisms were "Varcoe is shit" etc. it's a valid point. But pretty much none say that. Most if not all are simply saying he should have to regain form in the VFL just like any other player should. The problem is, it now seems that there's a glass ceiling with some players will simply never be dropped. That's can't be a positive thing.

If Varcoe played the next 2 games in the VFL, and got 30 touches both weeks and kicked 2 goals (or something similar), I'd almost insist he comes back to the seniors. But for some reason, to even suggest he might have to join others there results in hysteria and childishness.

Every player should be subject to scrutiny. Every player should be critically analysed. Without exception. A guy called JOEL COREY played VFL last year. I'm sure he could have come straight back to the seniors, but he probably realised he needed the hitout and was professional enough to do it without fuss. If he could do it, so can anyone else.
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Well first, this is a free country, with free speech.

But the way I see it, people are in a way or another basically asking Varcoe to improve his game, I mean he is now one of the snr players of the club. I would love him to bust out and become a great player, but if he's not. Then there is no shame for players to go back to the VFL, whether it be Varcoe, Blitz or any other player that needs to improve. Whatever gives us the best chance of winning week after week.

We're not the old all conquering Geelong, so we need players to perform as consistently good as possible, otherwise we will lose and lose big. We've already conceded 72 points in our losses, which is more than our combine losing margins for the entire 2013.

Now that doesn't mean I hate anyone I criticize, but you're throwing on the hoops and as a supporter of the club I love, I expect you to play with everything you got. If not, then I can feel that I can whinge and complain on a public forum! hahahaha:D
 
SJ said:
Look, I have been one of the biggest Varcoe supporters for eight years. But I don't want someone after 150 odd games and at their peak age to not even be winning 14 touches a game. That was probably acceptable in his third year. Sorry.
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You seem to lack consistency if that's your opinion. You see there was a guy who you professed to "love" who spent his whole career with Geelong. I'll admit I loved the bloke too. This guy had some similarities to Varcoe in that he played partly forward, partly off half back and partly through midfield. Like Varcoe he was very good defensively and like Varcoe he could spark a team with an individual moment like Varcoe did in the 2011 QF against Hawthorn with that tap that started an avalanche of goals. Yet over his best 4 years at Geelong from 2006-2009 these were his stats:

Goals per game: 0.76 (0.24 less than Varcoe this year)
Disposals per game: 12.38 (1.4 less than Varcoe this year)
Tackles per game: 3.4 (1.8 less than Varcoe this year)

Many people are calling on Varcoe to be dropped yet this guy was lauded as vital to our premiership success in that time. You say "I don't want someone...at their peak age to not even be winning 14 touches a game" yet you absolutely loved this guy. Have you worked out who I'm talking about yet? So why does 12 possessions, less than a goal and just over 3 tackles make this guy a gun yet Varcoe's 14 touches, a goal and over 5 tackles make him worthy of being dropped?

I'm not saying Varcoe's starring or anything like that but most games he's doing a really good job defensively and giving us a bit going forward. If we think dropping him to the 2s will spark him into great form then go for it. But realistically he's in our best 18 right now given who we've got fit. People that are saying he's not in our best 22 are just having a laugh. The only way somebody could come to that conclusion would be by judging him much more harshly than any of the younger players. Nobody would be saying a guy like Murdoch should be dropped yet overall he and Varcoe have had very, very similar years. Should a more experienced guy be judged more harshly? Maybe. But if we're talking about what team is most likely to get us a win on the weekend Varcoe would be picked ahead of almost all the young guys who have shown a bit this year because his performances have been overall more solid than most of them.
 

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Footy Smarts said:
You seem to lack consistency if that's your opinion. You see there was a guy who you professed to "love" who spent his whole career with Geelong. I'll admit I loved the bloke too. This guy had some similarities to Varcoe in that he played partly forward, partly off half back and partly through midfield. Like Varcoe he was very good defensively and like Varcoe he could spark a team with an individual moment like Varcoe did in the 2011 QF against Hawthorn with that tap that started an avalanche of goals. Yet over his best 4 years at Geelong from 2006-2009 these were his stats:

Goals per game: 0.76 (0.24 less than Varcoe this year)
Disposals per game: 12.38 (1.4 less than Varcoe this year)
Tackles per game: 3.4 (1.8 less than Varcoe this year)

Many people are calling on Varcoe to be dropped yet this guy was lauded as vital to our premiership success in that time. You say "I don't want someone...at their peak age to not even be winning 14 touches a game" yet you absolutely loved this guy. Have you worked out who I'm talking about yet? So why does 12 possessions, less than a goal and just over 3 tackles make this guy a gun yet Varcoe's 14 touches, a goal and over 5 tackles make him worthy of being dropped?

I'm not saying Varcoe's starring or anything like that but most games he's doing a really good job defensively and giving us a bit going forward. If we think dropping him to the 2s will spark him into great form then go for it. But realistically he's in our best 18 right now given who we've got fit. People that are saying he's not in our best 22 are just having a laugh. The only way somebody could come to that conclusion would be by judging him much more harshly than any of the younger players. Nobody would be saying a guy like Murdoch should be dropped yet overall he and Varcoe have had very, very similar years. Should a more experienced guy be judged more harshly? Maybe. But if we're talking about what team is most likely to get us a win on the weekend Varcoe would be picked ahead of almost all the young guys who have shown a bit this year because his performances have been overall more solid than most of them.
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But the other bloke scared the opposition !!
 
I think they're so scared if he's dropped he'll never play well enough to warrant another senior game. Last year in his only game in the VFL on the comeback trial he amassed the grand sum of 8 possessions before he was promoted.

Now that's what I call a soft call up, actually unbelievable that it could happen.
 
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Footy Smarts said:
You seem to lack consistency if that's your opinion. You see there was a guy who you professed to "love" who spent his whole career with Geelong. I'll admit I loved the bloke too. This guy had some similarities to Varcoe in that he played partly forward, partly off half back and partly through midfield. Like Varcoe he was very good defensively and like Varcoe he could spark a team with an individual moment like Varcoe did in the 2011 QF against Hawthorn with that tap that started an avalanche of goals. Yet over his best 4 years at Geelong from 2006-2009 these were his stats:

Goals per game: 0.76 (0.24 less than Varcoe this year)
Disposals per game: 12.38 (1.4 less than Varcoe this year)
Tackles per game: 3.4 (1.8 less than Varcoe this year)

Many people are calling on Varcoe to be dropped yet this guy was lauded as vital to our premiership success in that time. You say "I don't want someone...at their peak age to not even be winning 14 touches a game" yet you absolutely loved this guy. Have you worked out who I'm talking about yet? So why does 12 possessions, less than a goal and just over 3 tackles make this guy a gun yet Varcoe's 14 touches, a goal and over 5 tackles make him worthy of being dropped?

I'm not saying Varcoe's starring or anything like that but most games he's doing a really good job defensively and giving us a bit going forward. If we think dropping him to the 2s will spark him into great form then go for it. But realistically he's in our best 18 right now given who we've got fit. People that are saying he's not in our best 22 are just having a laugh. The only way somebody could come to that conclusion would be by judging him much more harshly than any of the younger players. Nobody would be saying a guy like Murdoch should be dropped yet overall he and Varcoe have had very, very similar years. Should a more experienced guy be judged more harshly? Maybe. But if we're talking about what team is most likely to get us a win on the weekend Varcoe would be picked ahead of almost all the young guys who have shown a bit this year because his performances have been overall more solid than most of them.
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Here's the problem with that. Our backline is still amazing, but it isn't impenetrable the way it was during those years, our forwardline at the moment is quite dysfunctional, and our midfield doesn't have the same absolute star quality it did back in the day. During those golden years we could carry players who could be quiet then spark something special, because we had so many genuine superstars at the peaks of their powers running around the field. I honestly don't think it's an exaggeration to say that Scarlett, Ablett, Selwood, Bartel, Corey, Ling and Taylor would all have serious claims to being in Geelong's greatest team of all time, potentially Kelly and Mooney as well. We no longer have that same side, and while we have handy replacements we need a more even spread from all of our players. We can no longer carry a cameo player and expect to consistently win games. We can't expect Selwood or Taylor to win us games every week, and we certainly can't rely on Kelly or Bartel to win games because they are no longer the players they were. To carry a player who averages 13 possessions, and doesn't do all that much with them, is foolhardy.

When Varcoe is creating something special with half his touches, and there was a time when he could do that, then he was giving something to the team. At the moment he isn't, he hasn't broken a game open in years. I'm not saying delist him, yet, but there's no reason he can't spend a few weeks at VFL level rebuilding his confidence. He isn't the only one to be honest chough Blicavs cough.
 
Partridge said:
3. The match committee believe his best football is absolutely essential for the team.

Unfortunately, he gets lenience and leeway for poor performances far above any other player. And once you've played more than 120 games (which he has), you have to get the ball more than 13 times a game if you're a midfielder.
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What has number of games got to do with picking your best team? Sure it might effect whether we get rid of him at the end of the year but you pick the players who are performing the best, not performing the best for their age or number of games played. We have very little smalls left in the reserves at the moment except for first season players and players returning from injury. Varcoe kicked 2 goals last week and was ok late in the game. his form has been poor since the Brisbane game but there really isn't anything to replace him with.
 
Seeds said:
What has number of games got to do with picking your best team? Sure it might effect whether we get rid of him at the end of the year but you pick the players who are performing the best, not performing the best for their age or number of games played. We have very little smalls left in the reserves at the moment except for first season players and players returning from injury. Varcoe kicked 2 goals last week and was ok late in the game. his form has been poor since the Brisbane game but there really isn't anything to replace him with.
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The reason number of games played comes into it is that it indicates whether or not you can expect a player to improve, and how much. We wouldn't crucify Bews if he followed up his great debut with a sub par second game, because he's new to AFL level football, Travis Varcoe is not. You can get away with playing cameos and showing flash early on in your career because it's expected that consistency comes with maturity. However it reaches a point of diminishing returns, where the investment in games where you don't fully contribute to the side is no longer worth the potential to be a gun. Stokes was getting to that point then he completely turned his career around. Can Varcoe do that, I'm not convinced, partially because he's clearly treated with kid gloves by the match committee.
 

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