Opinion Travis Varcoe

[you pick one]

Yes I heard it.

He said that Varcoe has lacked continuity over the past couple of years, and that the game has actually changed during that time.
So they are trying to work out the best way to get him more involved.

Saints are looking for a replacement for Raphael Clarke.

 

[FredLeDeux]

So he's like a satellite then he's been put together and programed to go around and around for ever and not to run into anything,Ah that makes sense now, he's gathering intelligence,I knew he was playing a role.

Like one of those vacuum cleaners that doesn't fall down the stairs, but also doesn't pick up anything.

 

[CharacterFirst]

So he's like a satellite then he's been put together and programed to go around and around for ever and not to run into anything,Ah that makes sense now, he's gathering intelligence,I knew he was playing a role.

I imagine he has been told to focus on being a true outside runner, and let the others take the physical rough stuff.
It's not too hard to understand YPO.

 

[you pick one]

I imagine he has been told to focus on being a true outside runner, and let the others take the physical rough stuff.
It's not too hard to understand YPO.

1.. Any more outside and he would have to pay to get back in to the ground.
2..It is if he's not being used.And why would the club try to flick him last year if he was doing what was asked of him?

 

[Mackieilove]

1.. Any more outside and he would have to pay to get back in to the ground.
2..It is if he's not being used.And why would the club try to flick him last year if he was doing what was asked of him?

Can I ask you this?

Is Motlop more of an inside player than Varcoe?

Varcoe averages 13.31 disposals, 4.33 of those contested. And 3.56 tackles.
Motlop averages 15 disposals, 4.93 of those contested. And 2.02 tackles.

Pretty similar huh?
Better trade Motlop too.

 

[Mackieilove]

And then there's this year.

14.33, 4.66, and 5 tackles
vs
16.33, 3.33, and 0.75 !

Admittedly there isn't enough data on Motlop this year.

 

[meto]

Yes I heard it.

He said that Varcoe has lacked continuity over the past couple of years, and that the game has actually changed during that time.
So they are trying to work out the best way to get him more involved.

Sounds to me also they think he's an issue from within the fortress, the only way he'll get involved is if someone else does the spade work first and he's in the clear, as I've said, he just looks for the cheapies.
I don't think the teammates are overly impressed because they've got to go when it's their turn to go, people won't be happy if he's made an exception.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

I haven't read much of the past few pages, but I thought Trav was pretty decent on the weekend.
Wasn't amazing, but a significant improvement from the last couple of weeks.

I'm totally with you there BlitzenTrapper
Much better game from him on Friday night , stayed involved for longer , provided useful run and used it well.
If he continues to play like that and gets around 19 for the game reckon we should all be happy

 

[CharacterFirst]

1.. Any more outside and he would have to pay to get back in to the ground.
2..It is if he's not being used.And why would the club try to flick him last year if he was doing what was asked of him?

Sure. I'm not an apologist for TV. Just trying to make sense of 3 major facts.

1]. His form over the last couple of years is pretty scratchy, to say the least.
2]. He is playing bruise free footy.
3]. He is continually picked - week-in, week-out.

One possible answer is he is playing to instruction, or may possibly have some exemptions re in-and-under etc.

There is more to it than we see, that's for sure.

 

[CharacterFirst]

Sounds to me also they think he's an issue from within the fortress, the only way he'll get involved is if someone else does the spade work first and he's in the clear, as I've said, he just looks for the cheapies.

Was it Duncan who was quoted re TV? Duncan doesn't seem to be the sharpest tool in the shed. I would want more than a few non-descript lines from him before I made any judgement re TV.

 

[BUSTER29]

Sure. I'm not an apologist for TV. Just trying to make sense of 3 major facts.

1]. His form over the last couple of years is pretty scratchy, to say the least.
2]. He is playing bruise free footy.
3]. He is continually picked - week-in, week-out.

One possible answer is he is playing to instruction, or may possibly have some exemptions re in-and-under etc.

There is more to it than we see, that's for sure.

Best post in this shitbox thread.
I get a laugh out of the purely Day or Night opinions on Varcoe and also Blicsavs.
Could be interesting around here in about Round 16 when Caddy,Bundy,Smedts,Kersten,Brown are all fit.!

 

[catempire]

Can I ask you this?

Is Motlop more of an inside player than Varcoe?

Varcoe averages 13.31 disposals, 4.33 of those contested. And 3.56 tackles.
Motlop averages 15 disposals, 4.93 of those contested. And 2.02 tackles.

Pretty similar huh?
Better trade Motlop too.

Exactly on point. You will probably find nobody critical of Varcoe will respond. Just like they didn't when similar comparisons were brought up in relation to Jetta, Smith, etc earlier in the thread.

 

[SJ]

Can I ask you this?

Is Motlop more of an inside player than Varcoe?

Varcoe averages 13.31 disposals, 4.33 of those contested. And 3.56 tackles.
Motlop averages 15 disposals, 4.93 of those contested. And 2.02 tackles.

Pretty similar huh?
Better trade Motlop too.

Exactly on point. You will probably find nobody critical of Varcoe will respond. Just like they didn't when similar comparisons were brought up in relation to Jetta, Smith, etc earlier in the thread.

I'll respond:
1. Probably not a good idea to compare career stats when the 26-year-old, 124-gamer averages less than the 23-year-old, 54-gamer.
2. I'm not interested in talking about Varcoe's career form/averages anyway, I want to talk about his current form.
3. Varcoe is having similar (I'd argue slightly less) impact on games than he did in 2010. Definitely not having any more.
4. Varcoe is averaging 6 kicks a game this year. That's one or two a quarter. Yes, his disposal tally doesn't say a lot on its own as he is an impact player - but he doesn't have much impact with his handballs. His run and kicks are his go. Six kicks a game as an outside player suggests he's simply not having the impact we need from him to be our best.
5. He is 26 year old now - if he can't do it now, when will he do it? Have we seen the best of him?

 

[catempire]

SJ most of that is good and well but is entirely separate from the dominant criticism in this thread which can be boiled down to "Varcoe isn't hard enough".

 

[SJ]

SJ most of that is good and well but is entirely separate from the dominant criticism in this thread which can be boiled down to "Varcoe isn't hard enough".

Well I bumped this thread from 2013 and did so the back of his output, not his hardness.

 

[catempire]

Well I bumped this thread from 2013 and did so the back of his output, not his hardness.

Understand that and your point is well made. The points about his hardness, especially in light of the comparisons of output with other similar outside players, are deeply flawed.

 

[Pivo]

Exactly on point. You will probably find nobody critical of Varcoe will respond. Just like they didn't when similar comparisons were brought up in relation to Jetta, Smith, etc earlier in the thread.

I responded, gave a breakdown or Jetta V Varcoe.

In a nutshell, I said who you prefer will basically come down to what you value in a player.

All the following is based on the Footywire site.

Both Smith and Varcoe have played 9 games this year.

Smith averages 15.2 kicks a game / Varcoe averages 6.2 kicks a game
Smith averages 8.4 handballs / Varcoe averages 8.1
Smith averages 5.8 marks / Varcoes averages 2.8
Smith averages 2.4 tackles / Varcoe averages 5.0
Smith averages 3.4 inside 50s / Varcoe averages 2.8
Smith averages 2.8 rebound 50s / Varcoe averages 0.7

Varcoe (76.2%) has a better Effective disposal percentage than Smith (71.7%) but I'd argue that when you dispose of the ball more (especially by foot over distance) you have more margin for error. Also, even I can hit the target by hand from 1 metre (and I'm crap).

Clearances per game, goals per game and 1%ers are all basically the same.

The stat I like, especially for player's like Varcoe, Smith, Jetta and Yarren (another guy I mentioned) is bounces per game. I think that gives an indication as to whether a player is willing to take the game on.

Running bounces, is weighed in favour of Smith. 3.0 to Varcoe's 0.2.

In 2010 Varcoe averaged 0.7 bounces a game. That went up in 2011 to 1.0 a game. The drop could indicate a change in gameplan.

Or it could indicate a drop in confidence.

Motlop still seems happy enough to run and bounce when the opportunity presents (already averaging 0.7 in 3 games this year, averaged 2.4 in 2013).

I thought Varcoe's game against North was good. I certainly don't have much of an issue with what he did over the weekend. Do that more regularly and people will likely move onto the next "whipping boy".

Also, I am happy to acknowledge that stats don't tell us everything. The respective game plans of sides can have an impact on how often a guy gains possession.

Hawthorn and Geelong play different. Hawthorn is possession heavy (currently ranking first) meaning their players have more chance to get their hands on the ball.

If you ask me who I'd take, I'd probably take Smith. But I fully understand that dropping Smith into Geelong doesn't mean he'll generate the same sort of numbers.

I'd just like Varcoe to return to that ball-carrying, line breaker who ALSO pressures. I don't like the Varcoe that currently gets the ball and looks to fire it off to the nearest guy who is often under the pump.

Urgh - that is TL;DR kinda stuff.

 

[_Me_]

can we please give it a rest for a few weeks
judas will and should lose the brownlow tonight - selwood might Bradbury a brownlow

whether we like it or not varcoe is in for the next 6 weeks as stringer and co are not nearly as good

by round 16 we should have ccs pressing for inclusion as well as K - and that's what is exciting

 

[catempire]

The Pivotonian - sorry, but I don't think you get why Jetta and Smith were raised as comparisons. It was NOT to make any case that Varcoe is as good as those players - clearly he is not. It was to refute a suggestion that an outside player has to be a contested ball player in order to be effective. Varcoe is equally effective an inside player as Jetta/Smith etc but an inferior outside player.

 

[Mackieilove]

I'll respond:
1. Probably not a good idea to compare career stats when the 26-year-old, 124-gamer averages less than the 23-year-old, 54-gamer.
2. I'm not interested in talking about Varcoe's career form/averages anyway, I want to talk about his current form.
3. Varcoe is having similar (I'd argue slightly less) impact on games than he did in 2010. Definitely not having any more.
4. Varcoe is averaging 6 kicks a game this year. That's one or two a quarter. Yes, his disposal tally doesn't say a lot on its own as he is an impact player - but he doesn't have much impact with his handballs. His run and kicks are his go. Six kicks a game as an outside player suggests he's simply not having the impact we need from him to be our best.
5. He is 26 year old now - if he can't do it now, when will he do it? Have we seen the best of him?

And that's the other thing, we dont have access to a run and carry stat.

That's where someone like Motlop separates himself.
And it's what I expect from Varcoe, especially with that experience and knowing when to gamble. He is just not doing that enough.

 

[Mackieilove]

Was it Duncan who was quoted re TV? Duncan doesn't seem to be the sharpest tool in the shed. I would want more than a few non-descript lines from him before I made any judgement re TV.

Duncan is in the leadership group, he should have as much knowledge as any of the players.

 

[CharacterFirst]

Duncan is in the leadership group, he should have as much knowledge as any of the players.

I know. I stand by what I said.

 

[Pivo]

The Pivotonian - sorry, but I don't think you get why Jetta and Smith were raised as comparisons. It was NOT to make any case that Varcoe is as good as those players - clearly he is not. It was to refute a suggestion that an outside player has to be a contested ball player in order to be effective. Varcoe is equally effective an inside player as Jetta/Smith etc but an inferior outside player.

You're right, I did miss the point. My mistake.

However, I don't think all is lost (and my work jettised) as I think Smith and Jetta are good examples of the players we need Varcoe to be/return to (as you allude to) which has been my criticism.

It does concern me that both Jetta and Smith are better than Varcoe in this "outside" role (which was where I went with this).

But yeah, this might be a good place for me to leave this thread.

 

[catempire]

But yeah, this might be a good place for me to leave this thread.

Don't be silly. There's always a place for analysis based on fact and logic!

 

[meto]

can we please give it a rest for a few weeks
judas will and should lose the brownlow tonight - selwood might Bradbury a brownlow

whether we like it or not varcoe is in for the next 6 weeks as stringer and co are not nearly as good

by round 16 we should have ccs pressing for inclusion as well as K - and that's what is exciting

Stringer has had stuff all games and opportunity compared to Varcoe and stood up well enough inside and out by comparison, didn't notice him put in the short ones like your bloke.