Mega Thread Tribunal Verdict - Not comfortably satisfied there was a violation - Statement in Post #2

[Rob R]

players cleared which seems right but given this only dragged onto due to management and record failings by essendon. can the players now sue essendon and hird for all the emotional impact on them and their families?

 

[TheArchivist]

Let's ignore the fact that you'd also have to somehow avoid testing positive.

There's plenty of banned drugs for which there is no available test that has been developed yet. Cries of 'no positive tests!' are meaningless.

 

[bing181]

The outcome shows how high a bar "comfortable satisfaction" actually is. Suspect that there will be much pouring over the entrails in the legal departments of WADA and the national anti-doping bodies. Perhaps the only way of making a non-presence ADRV stick is when there are eye-witness accounts and/or confessions, as was the case with Lance Armstrong.

While on the one hand, it's right that the standard of proof is as high as possible, ending up with OJ Simpson-type verdicts don't help anyone, especially when about the only uncontested fact we have in all this is that no-one knows what the Essendon players were injected with. Hardly a cause for celebration, as the Age article pointed out yesterday.

We await the Dank verdict. If that shows that prohibited substances were administered to the players, or even on-site at Essendon ... but no point getting ahead of ourselves.

Been an interesting journey.

 

[CoggaRules]

Ridiculous stuff. A panel of 3 appointed by the AFL to oversee an AFL clubs anti-doping case, deliberates for 3 minutes relatively speaking and 2 days before the season, come out with a "not guilty" verdict and its over? Add to that the statement also suggests, in respect of the players privacy, they will not make public how they arrived at the verdict. So no one knows why they came out with it and they expect this decision to be taken seriously without WTFs?..

Lets not forget one thing. This is the AFL's anti-doping tribunal. It isnt a supreme court etc...lets see if its over. IMO the ramifications surrounding this in world sport will not allow it to be over. Lets not mention, the NRL and how they crunched the Cronulla sharks with evidence that was deemed less.

THE AFL is a joke..the end

 

[btemplar88]

sew houw duz a lak ov govanance an fakn payperwerk werk az a alllabye? dey larv deh draaags et esssindun...

 

[HawkMongrel]

Ridiculous stuff. A panel of 3 appointed by the AFL to oversee an AFL clubs anti-doping case, deliberates for 3 minutes relatively speaking and 2 days before the season, come out with a "not guilty" verdict and its over? Add to that the statement also suggests, in respect of the players privacy, they will not make public how they arrived at the verdict. So no one knows why they came out with it and they expect this decision to be taken seriously without WTFs?..

Lets not forget one thing. This is the AFL's anti-doping tribunal. It isnt a supreme court etc...lets see if its over. IMO the ramifications surrounding this in world sport will not allow it to be over. Lets not mention, the NRL and how they crunched the Cronulla sharks with evidence that was deemed less.

THE AFL is a joke..the end

This.

AFL just showing that money and the reputation of the game being "clean" should be protected no matter what the cost.

Joke of a league run by corrupt people.

 

[basil00]

I think ASADA will apeal if Dank is also found not guilty. If he is found guilty, then i reckon they may let the matter drop.

 

[The_Wookie]

Gillon McLachlan, Tuesday March 31:
The AFL confirms that the AFL Anti-Doping Tribunal has found that the 34 past and present players of the Essendon Football Club did not breach the Anti-Doping Code.

The Tribunal is still completing its decision on the former employee of the Essendon Football Club. The decision is expected after Easter.

The AFL would like to thank the Tribunal Chairman, David Jones, and members John Nixon and Wayne Henwood for their work.

The case has been the most complex case ever tried by the AFL Tribunal, and the circumstances surrounding the case have been extremely difficult.

Given this, the Tribunal has delivered in a timely manner, given the amount of information and the number of parties involved.

The AFL is still reviewing the decision.

The AFL has asked that that the full details of the decision made public in the interests of transparency. Under the code, this is a matter for the players.

The AFL wishes to reinforce that ASADA and WADA have rights to appeal the decision.

I am pleased for the players and understand what a relief this is for them.

I do wish to thank the past and present Essendon Players for their full cooperation at all times, and how they conducted themselves through the last 2 years.

However, the judgement and the evidence should give no one any joy about what happened in our competition in 2012.

It has been the AFL’s view, and the view of Essendon’s own internal report that the players were victims of a reckless program, which has hung over the players and the competition for more than 2 years.

Given the evidence the AFL collected, the ASADA Interim Report, and Essendon’s own report it was clear that breaches of the AFL rules had occurred.

The Essendon Football Club in 2013 accepted that it had engaged in practices that exposed players to risks to their health and safety, as well as the unacceptable risk of using substances that were prohibited by the AFL Anti-doping Code and the World Anti-Doping Code.

The Club and Club officials accepted sanctions from the AFL in 2013, which included:

· Being removed from the final series
· A $2million fine
· Loss of draft picks
· 12 month suspension for the Senior Coach
· Fines for a number of Club personnel

Since 2013, the Essendon Football Club has worked very hard to improve its processes, and has:

· Completed a full review of the football department and football program.
· Established a new football department executive to approve all new football department initiatives.
· Reviewed medical policies and procedures with a new medical protocol and policy established.
· Enhanced the Club’s risk management framework, with additional training on Occupational, Health & Safety for all staff.
· Introduced a new internal whistle blower policy

The AFL believes in clean sport, is committed to continuing a rigorous testing program for performance enhancing drugs, and will continue to lead the way in the protection of the health and welfare of our players.

I want to thank the Port Adelaide and Western Bulldogs Football Clubs for their support of their players, and their understanding during this long and difficult process.

To the remaining clubs in the competition, this has been an extremely difficult time for the game, and all clubs’ work with their supporters and fans has been greatly appreciated.

ref: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-03-31/mclachlans-statement-on-the-antidoping-verdict

 

[CoggaRules]

I think ASADA will apeal if Dank is also found not guilty. If he is found guilty, then i reckon they may let the matter drop.

huh? If Dank is found guilty? guilty of what? LIke how the f**k can they find him guilty of giving something to a group of players there are not guilty of taking anything? lmaoooo what a clusterf**k of a comp this has become.
The Druggos are trundling out the feel good s**t now...the classic one is Hird saying it took so long to come to this...lmaoo..yeah, why dont you tell us why you think it took so long Hird? Lets see, how many injunctions did you instigate? lmaooo...sheeeesh this is funny as..the holes in all this make this comp look like a sideshow to the rest of the world. Sheeds wants to see international games? Bwahaahaahaaaa...dude, get real, the AFL is now just another run of the mill local comp that cant run a bath

 

[Darcy 2 Fyfe]

The AFL reminds me of when I worked in China. The government says things with a straight face and 1.5 billion people know they're lying. Watch Crowley go down for his pain killers.

 

[yebiga]

The exaggerated hyperbole is very tiring
Given what we know had the players been suspended there would rightfully been strong legal action against the club and the afl
There still maybe
Imagine your son was a young bombers player

As for the case against essendon
Technically they self reported
concerns about their own program

The only question here is whether essendon and hird have got off too lightly
Remember they missed out on finals lost almost all there head personnel
A number have had their careers ruined
In balance this is enough
We need to move on

Asada did their job
Wada will suck it up
This is not armstrongs discovery team like some of the hysterical comments would lead you to believe

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

What a joke really. Not Guilty - pfft - yeah right.

 

[swoop42]

How can a panel appointed by the AFL and supposedly paid by it be considered impartial and above all approach?

Every time Essendon and Hird have faced a body independent to the AFL whether it be ASADA or the courts they have been accused of doping violations or have failed in there quest to have the allegations thrown out.

Yet this time the outcome is exactly what the AFL wanted.

Honestly is anyone really that surprised?

You get what you pay for I guess.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

In fairness the AFL would have tried to bail out any other club in the same position.

The AFL would more liekly have stripped St Kilda, North Melbourne, Melbourne or the Bulldogs of their licences in the same position.

 

[letstayunited]

Just accept the Verdict. It's fair and just. You are being clouded by your emotions

 

[Foley#41]

Seriously annoyed at Tim Watson on Seven News tonight.

He had a red hot go at ASADA and the AFL for all the drama they put the players through.
I'm happy to move on, but let's get one thing straight: this saga is down to the Essendon Football Club and its employees, and no one else! If the club had kept records, or better still not injected in the first place, the players would not have suffered at all (except losing more games to Richmond ).

Enjoy the win Bombers supporters. Here's to a good, fair, and controversy-free AFL season.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

This is baffling. So dank could still be guilty of peddling illegal drugs at the club but because they cant pin it on individual players due to shonky record keeping the players are all good to go?

Yes. Which many saw as a likely outcome. Essendon people mostly saw it as a very likely outcome. (Personally, I'm not all that surprised.) It is also quite possible Dank will be cleared because the Tribunal may not be comfortably satisfed that TB-4 was administered at all. The Tribunal's statement is very carefully worded so that it doesn't point either way on the support person's case - unless it is used for confirmation bias.
And we are only assuming that the "support person" is Dank. Based on the publicly available information that seems a reasonable assumption.

Without the full reasoning, anyone saying there "will" or "must" be an appeal is kidding themselves. It is certainly possible. As is ASADA prosecuting a case for other drugs, only AOD has been ruled out. They now know the bar is high, but they also know they can use any evidence they can find.

It does cast a big question mark over the effectivemess of the regime where no positive tests are returned. ASADA put a lot of time and money into this for no result. Clearly they believed they had the evidence, but equally clearly they did not have enough.
Even if Dank (assuming again that it is him) is found guilty, he should have been rubbed out of all sport after the Cronulla shambles and nothing has been gained in this case.

 

[The Goon]

How quickly feigned detachment turns to outrage and hyperbolae.

 

[madmug]

How quickly feigned detachment turns to outrage and hyperbolae.

Unfortunately its not over until.ASADA/WADA say so. I just hope they make a.decision soon.

 

[vonn]

The exaggerated hyperbole is very tiring
Given what we know had the players been suspended there would rightfully been strong legal action against the club and the afl
There still maybe
Imagine your son was a young bombers player

As for the case against essendon
Technically they self reported
concerns about their own program

The only question here is whether essendon and hird have got off too lightly
Remember they missed out on finals lost almost all there head personnel
A number have had their careers ruined
In balance this is enough
We need to move on

Asada did their job
Wada will suck it up
This is not armstrongs discovery team like some of the hysterical comments would lead you to believe

Is this a poem?

 

[The Goon]

Unfortunately its not over until.ASADA/WADA say so. I just hope they make a.decision soon.

One way or another this will drag on for a minimum of another 42 days.

Is this a poem?

Perhaps not traditional, but more haiku in structure I'd have thought.

 

[vonn]

One way or another this will drag on for a minimum of another 42 days.

Perhaps not traditional, but more haiku in structure I'd have thought.

Yes, very similar to a haiku if you disregard the whole 5-7-5 syllables thing.

 

[yebiga]

Is this a poem?

Why do you like it

 

[base615]

Goodbye AFL. I've cancelled my membership and I'm done with the sport.

 

[JoondalupJ]

No. Signing up to the WADA regime involves responsibilities on the AFL that they can't avoid.

Also, if they do try to avoid the responsibilities, as I said before, the matter can be referred to CAS which would put matters beyond the control of the AFL. They would not welcome that situation.

This is a question?
So the burden of proof lies with the AFL, the guilty verdict can be found, but not by the use of probability? That is first question.

The burden of proof lies with the AFL, the guilty verdict can be found, but, without using the term in law of reasonable doubt, yes/no? Question 2.


From my non learned understanding, does that mean that if found guilty the players will have no choice but to go to civil legal court again to clear their names.

If they refuse to be blamed for what they might /might not have done?