Trout sacked

[Saint Watto]

I think people do need to calmly discuss the matter rather than the extreme reactions

That's a very measured and interesting post there freebloke.

I guess the recruiting isn't an exact science with all sorts of variables coming into play.

I also guess that most on here want it to be an exact science and be seeing more of the recruits up and firing more regularly.

We should get a much better overall picture of things at seasons end.

 

[StCicatriz]

I'm not saying we sack trout. I think him and recruiting team are doing a great job for what was at their disposal

But I did find the long term offer to Sanderson intersting

 

[freebloke]

Billings was the consensus number 3 pick. In fact melbourne via Paul roos have stated that if they hadn't have traded pick 2 to gws they wouldve drafted him there, in front of kelly AND Bont.

It is extremely easy to say these things in hindsight and it is something you can do with every club.

Melbourne's high pick recruitment selection is not highly rated. Good with late picks, but not so much with the high ones.

Toumpas...
Trengove...

 

[Confuscius]

Melbourne's high pick recruitment selection is not highly rated. Good with late picks, but not so much with the high ones.

Toumpas...
Trengove...

Were those guys taken before or after Paul Roos got there and completely overhauled the club?

Be a bit like using the 2010 draft to judge trout when he didnt get here till 2011 isn't it? Oh wait? That's already been done? Guess that sums up the thread

 

[Saintbloke]

My concern is not so much recruiting, but the development of the players we recruit. Quite a few of recruits from the last few years seem to have all the necessary qualities, but many then seem to slip through to the keeper and stand still in their development. Not convinced that our development side of the club is up to scratch.

 

[JG22]

My concern is not so much recruiting, but the development of the players we recruit. Quite a few of recruits from the last few years seem to have all the necessary qualities, but many then seem to slip through to the keeper and stand still in their development. Not convinced that our development side of the club is up to scratch.

I don't know that's fair.

Billings, McCartin, Acres, McKenzie have all improved well so far, not quickly but the have gotten better year after year.

Dunstan is a little of an outlier, he seemed to be ready made and had some stale attributes although not improving at all has been disappointing

 

[gringo2011]

Couple of highly rated FS were handy .
Crameri , Hrovat and Cloke were/are ordinary
But overall ....yep incredible

crameri was good before the drug stuff, Hrovat just unlucky with injury and Cloke a bit of a bust. Overall their recruiting along with Sydney's has been exceptional. I think Sydney have missed finals twice in 20 years or something yet keep finding guns. Hayward and Florrent look like they will add to that good recruiting too. Champion data did a break down of recruiting success last year and these two were the stand out teams. They hardly waste a rookie selection.

 

[STK2020]

crameri was good before the drug stuff, Hrovat just unlucky with injury and Cloke a bit of a bust. Overall their recruiting along with Sydney's has been exceptional. I think Sydney have missed finals twice in 20 years or something yet keep finding guns. Hayward and Florrent look like they will add to that good recruiting too. Champion data did a break down of recruiting success last year and these two were the stand out teams. They hardly waste a rookie selection.

Yep more hits than misses.
I wasnt having a go , they really have been incredible.

 

[gringo2011]

My concern is not so much recruiting, but the development of the players we recruit. Quite a few of recruits from the last few years seem to have all the necessary qualities, but many then seem to slip through to the keeper and stand still in their development. Not convinced that our development side of the club is up to scratch.

I think our recruiting is a bit ordinary, we haven't got one dead set champion since he came. Clubs like Melbourne have several who are already close to champions from drafts we had access to. We have a few likely kids in Gresh, Billings and Acres but they are still in the dreaded potential zone ATM. We really need to grab some top end talent from the draft just to keep up. I have a feeling we recruit good guys with strong work ethics rather than ego driven freaks of nature.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Trout and co I would say are doing a solid job.

Well short of someone like Dalrymple and his small team (perhaps there's something to be said for not having too many cooks spoiling the broth), or maybe even Melbourne's recent drafting, but I'm sure there would be plenty of clubs who have drafted plenty worse than us. We seem to generally play it pretty safe.

Then again, it's hard to say how much at any club is down to the drafting and how much is down to development.

I agree with what others have said. If guys like Merrett and perhaps even Bont had been at our club their midfield games probably wouldn't be as advanced as they are.

That said, a lot of Merrett's progress would be due to the extra responsibility he got when Heppell and co. were suspended last year.

Still, believe we could do better in this regard and back guys in in their best position more. Not just Dunstan.

 

[gringo2011]

Trout and co I would say are doing a solid job.

Well short of someone like Dalrymple and his small team (perhaps there's something to be said for not having too many cooks spoiling the broth), or maybe even Melbourne's recent drafting, but I'm sure there would be plenty of clubs who have drafted plenty worse than us. We seem to generally play it pretty safe.

Then again, it's hard to say how much at any club is down to the drafting and how much is down to development.

I agree with what others have said. If guys like Merrett and perhaps even Bont had been at our club their midfield games probably wouldn't be as advanced as they are.

That said, a lot of Merrett's progress would be due to the extra responsibility he got when Heppell and co. were suspended last year.

Still, believe we could do better in this regard and back guys in in their best position more. Not just Dunstan.

I think we have definitely been big on letting guys play into their position so Merret and Bont arguments don't hold too much water. Newnes and Dunstan pretty much played every game they have been fit for.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I think we have definitely been big on letting guys play into their position so Merret and Bont arguments don't hold too much water. Newnes and Dunstan pretty much played every game they have been fit for.

Newnes was a different case though, we had so little young talent when he arrived that we could afford to just play him every week, to speed up his development.

By the time heaps of the other young ones arrived he was already pretty much established.

If we'd drafted him last year in the 30's he probably wouldn't have played a game yet and would be in and out of the team for probably the next couple of years, as a D-Mac for instance has been. If Dan had been drafted when Newnes was he'd probably have played 15-20 more games by this stage of his career than he has.

 

[gringo2011]

Newnes was a different case though, we had so little young talent when he arrived that we could afford to just play him every week, to speed up his development.

By the time heaps of the other young ones arrived he was already pretty much established.

If we'd drafted him last year in the 30's he probably wouldn't have played a game yet and would be in and out of the team for probably the next couple of years, as a D-Mac for instance has been. If Dan had been drafted when Newnes was he'd probably have played 15-20 more games by this stage of his career than he has.

I think it's a maturity thing with Newnes, he was an old head on a young body. D Mac seemed like a baby in comparison. Bont looked and apparently acted like a 200 game player. I guess it's like Powell- Pepper this year, he played because he was ready. Merit and Bont were probably both going to play where ever they went unless the team was challenging and was trying to keep a set line up.

 

[MrFoster]

trout is not the issue, nor is ameet or the rest of the recruitment team. if you look at who've they've taken in that draft and where they've done pretty well with what they've had

they've picked the eyes out of the draft. i'd give them an A-

the issue is our development system and football program. it stinks!!!! my gutfeel is we're developing a middle tier side and not one thats going to seriously contend for a long period of time. you know when you're good at developing players. you can see it in them physically and you can see it when they play. you see the improvements. we look like battlers in all aspects. then you see blokes leave, go to other clubs in and one to two god damn off-seasons they look like bonafide AFL players ready to rip the season apart. then they start performing

its bloody damning and we've been sitting on our hands for 3 ****in seasons now watching it happen

Are you talking about the our club? Which players left the saints recently and are flourishing now?

1. Stanley? Oh please, he is doing ok, flourishing in the VFL for the cats. Is he better than any of our current tall forwards? No. And we got pick 18 back.

2. Lynch? Yes, he is doing well at the crows. Left in 2011, a year after an ACL and didn't show much when in the team. We were a grand final team in 2009/2010 back then as well, plus our pressure/defensive game style didn't suit a young forward like him at the time. Crows with their free flowing game style was perfect for him.

3. Mcevoy? Doing ok at the hawks when they were a power house, it's not hard to look good when you mids don't need you to win hitouts to get the ball and can hit you in the forward line. Did alright with us around the ground, but was not overly competitive in the hit outs. And that's being generous.

It's easier to look good/play well when players around you are better. I agree our recruiting/development was really poor under the Lyon/Watters years, but not under Richo. I'll say players have flourished and developed under him.

1. Roberton, better player than he joined us.

2. Bruce, became a star until this year.

3. Sinclair, a rookie. Not a high pick.

4. Mav, again a rookie. Played in VFL before being elevated.

5. Membrey, was a part player in his first season with us. Kicked 40 goals in the sencond season.

6. Ross, developing into a star in the last 2 years under Ricoh.

7. Webster, has started to show maturity and consistency this season before his injury.

8. Riewoldt, yes I believe even Riewoldt has improved his game under Ricoh. By playing on the wing and drifting forward, he is enjoying the new freedom and becoming an even more effective player linking play/kicking goals.

I'm not saying our development is perfect. There are players who had improved much e.g Dunstan. But it's a minority, not majority. Having our own VFL team would have helped.

Re: our recruiting is the least of our worries as well, the only slight knock is we don't have enough gun mids coming through. But which club who is not gold coast or GWS has?

I'm not sure what people expect in our stage of the rebuild (3.5 years in), given where we were 4 years ago, I can see a clear plan by the club and improvements in the team performance every year (this year is not finished). They are not going to win every week. But be patient, and go saints!

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Giving Dopes a bad name with this one


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[Rors]

Are you talking about the our club? Which players left the saints recently and are flourishing now?

1. Stanley? Oh please, he is doing ok, flourishing in the VFL for the cats. Is he better than any of our current tall forwards? No. And we got pick 18 back.

2. Lynch? Yes, he is doing well at the crows. Left in 2011, a year after an ACL and didn't show much when in the team. We were a grand final team in 2009/2010 back then as well, plus our pressure/defensive game style didn't suit a young forward like him at the time. Crows with their free flowing game style was perfect for him.

3. Mcevoy? Doing ok at the hawks when they were a power house, it's not hard to look good when you mids don't need you to win hitouts to get the ball and can hit you in the forward line. Did alright with us around the ground, but was not overly competitive in the hit outs. And that's being generous.

It's easier to look good/play well when players around you are better. I agree our recruiting/development was really poor under the Lyon/Watters years, but not under Richo. I'll say players have flourished and developed under him.

1. Roberton, better player than he joined us.

2. Bruce, became a star until this year.

3. Sinclair, a rookie. Not a high pick.

4. Mav, again a rookie. Played in VFL before being elevated.

5. Membrey, was a part player in his first season with us. Kicked 40 goals in the sencond season.

6. Ross, developing into a star in the last 2 years under Ricoh.

7. Webster, has started to show maturity and consistency this season before his injury.

8. Riewoldt, yes I believe even Riewoldt has improved his game under Ricoh. By playing on the wing and drifting forward, he is enjoying the new freedom and becoming an even more effective player linking play/kicking goals.

I'm not saying our development is perfect. There are players who had improved much e.g Dunstan. But it's a minority, not majority. Having our own VFL team would have helped.

Re: our recruiting is the least of our worries as well, the only slight knock is we don't have enough gun mids coming through. But which club who is not gold coast or GWS has?

I'm not sure what people expect in our stage of the rebuild (3.5 years in), given where we were 4 years ago, I can see a clear plan by the club and improvements in the team performance every year (this year is not finished). They are not going to win every week. But be patient, and go saints!

- We got pick 21 for Stanley.

- Tom Lynch did an ACL as a junior when he was 16 yrs old. The worst injury he had at the Saints was a shoulder reco end of his 1st season.

- Mav was coveted pre-selection at the Suns before falling out of favour with the coaching staff over personality traits. He always had talent

 

[VDS66]

I think it's time to smoke him out. .

 

[Rors]

Only issue I've had with our drafting has been 2014.

At the time, I wanted us to go:

Pick 1 - 2MP
Pick 21 - best slider - on the night, it was Hugh Goddard & im happy enough with that
Pick 22 - Touk Miller/Connor Menadue
Pick 41 - Caleb Daniel

But that's just me. Regardless, I'll support whoever is in the guernsey each & every match day. Wishing we'd picked a different player on draft night doesn't make you a bad supporter

 

[Persevering Saint]

Only issue I've had with our drafting has been 2014.

At the time, I wanted us to go:

Pick 1 - 2MP
Pick 21 - best slider - on the night, it was Hugh Goddard & im happy enough with that
Pick 22 - Touk Miller/Connor Menadue
Pick 41 - Caleb Daniel

But that's just me. Regardless, I'll support whoever is in the guernsey each & every match day. Wishing we'd picked a different player on draft night doesn't make you a bad supporter

Yeah, that's not hindsight either. I remember those were your preferred picks.

Hell, the club should hire you for physio AND recruiting!

 

[hayes]

What's hurt us a little bit is Dunstan and Acres not becoming the contested ball players we thought they'd be. Blake is in the team but only averaging 6 contested possessions a game and all Dunstan has done in that area is go backwards.

Midfielders weren't a big focus early on in the rebuild so we needed both to be strong in that area but instead here we are still looking for ball winning mids. Luckily we have the currency to find them though.

 

[gringo2011]

Are you talking about the our club? Which players left the saints recently and are flourishing now?

1. Stanley? Oh please, he is doing ok, flourishing in the VFL for the cats. Is he better than any of our current tall forwards? No. And we got pick 18 back.

2. Lynch? Yes, he is doing well at the crows. Left in 2011, a year after an ACL and didn't show much when in the team. We were a grand final team in 2009/2010 back then as well, plus our pressure/defensive game style didn't suit a young forward like him at the time. Crows with their free flowing game style was perfect for him.

3. Mcevoy? Doing ok at the hawks when they were a power house, it's not hard to look good when you mids don't need you to win hitouts to get the ball and can hit you in the forward line. Did alright with us around the ground, but was not overly competitive in the hit outs. And that's being generous.

It's easier to look good/play well when players around you are better. I agree our recruiting/development was really poor under the Lyon/Watters years, but not under Richo. I'll say players have flourished and developed under him.

1. Roberton, better player than he joined us.

2. Bruce, became a star until this year.

3. Sinclair, a rookie. Not a high pick.

4. Mav, again a rookie. Played in VFL before being elevated.

5. Membrey, was a part player in his first season with us. Kicked 40 goals in the sencond season.

6. Ross, developing into a star in the last 2 years under Ricoh.

7. Webster, has started to show maturity and consistency this season before his injury.

8. Riewoldt, yes I believe even Riewoldt has improved his game under Ricoh. By playing on the wing and drifting forward, he is enjoying the new freedom and becoming an even more effective player linking play/kicking goals.

I'm not saying our development is perfect. There are players who had improved much e.g Dunstan. But it's a minority, not majority. Having our own VFL team would have helped.

Re: our recruiting is the least of our worries as well, the only slight knock is we don't have enough gun mids coming through. But which club who is not gold coast or GWS has?

I'm not sure what people expect in our stage of the rebuild (3.5 years in), given where we were 4 years ago, I can see a clear plan by the club and improvements in the team performance every year (this year is not finished). They are not going to win every week. But be patient, and go saints!

I thought we were rebuilding pretty much since 2011? I think we have been very good at poaching talent cheap but that's not Trouts role. We have had heaps of first and second round picks to use on kids and not many are definite stars. Ross is the closest thing to a star we have recruited in the last six or so drafts. We have a good spread of B talent but not much blue chip. Newnes probably the next best we have drafted ourselves.

 

[Brains Trust66]

There is so much risk in recruiting. It's easy in hindsight to say they should have taken player x instead of player y but it's all guess work . I think since Richo has come in as coach they seemed to have a much better purpose with who they wanted . Sometimes as per usual it hasn't worked but it's be due to the players not turning out to be what was hoped . But at the time they seemed good picks .
Every club has guys who were picked early or late and proved people wrong for the right or wrong reasons . Trout has done as good as anybody in my view , or I should say the team of recruiting people have done well as you never know who was responsible for what decision. We don't know , for example , if he wanted someone else but was overruled by others . I am comfortable with all the recruiting team .

Recruiting someone is not a perfect science . If you think how many players are recruited every year by all the teams . And how many guys were on the list but another club got there first . Also sometimes they go after a certain type rather than the best available player so it's a thankless task which is a very hard job.


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[gringo2011]

There is so much risk in recruiting. It's easy in hindsight to say they should have taken player x instead of player y but it's all guess work . I think since Richo has come in as coach they seemed to have a much better purpose with who they wanted . Sometimes as per usual it hasn't worked but it's be due to the players not turning out to be what was hoped . But at the time they seemed good picks .
Every club has guys who were picked early or late and proved people wrong for the right or wrong reasons . Trout has done as good as anybody in my view , or I should say the team of recruiting people have done well as you never know who was responsible for what decision. We don't know , for example , if he wanted someone else but was overruled by others . I am comfortable with all the recruiting team .


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I don't think we will move them on but they will want to start getting a few right and in a big way or we could set ourselves up for a Richmond or North type future.

 

[Crusty Undies]

I think we have definitely been big on letting guys play into their position so Merret and Bont arguments don't hold too much water. Newnes and Dunstan pretty much played every game they have been fit for.

Disagree. Dunstan for some freakin reason is the anomaly in this. Typically our coachimg staff make a motto out of playing recruits out of position. Gresham is not naturally a small forward. Acres is not a HFF. Billings is not a mid. Sinclair is not a defender. McKenzie is not a winger etc etc etc.

 

[Brains Trust66]

I thought we were rebuilding pretty much since 2011? I think we have been very good at poaching talent cheap but that's not Trouts role. We have had heaps of first and second round picks to use on kids and not many are definite stars. Ross is the closest thing to a star we have recruited in the last six or so drafts. We have a good spread of B talent but not much blue chip. Newnes probably the next best we have drafted ourselves.

How on earth can you tell if a guy is going to be a star or not ? It's just luck if you happen to pick the right guy , he gets played in the right spot , he doesn't get injured and so on and so on .


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