Two new states?

[Subprime]

Reported in the Australian that Bob Katter has a plan for 2 new states:

Mr Katter yesterday also raised the prospect of two new states in northern Australia.
The Queensland independent told the Northern Territory News he hoped to merge the Northern Territory with part of Western Australia to form the state of Northwestern Australia so that the region could better exploit its natural resources, become a food bowl and accommodate an extra 100,000 people.
Mr Katter also wants Queensland split into two states, north and south.

Doubt he's got the numbers for this one but it certainly is an interesting idea.

 

[pazza]

Impressive.

 

[Messenger]

And implement the Bradfield Plan I imagine. Rice paddies in Longreach while river estuaries dies.

Didn't the NT recently vote against statehood? In the last decade?

 

[Clay Davis]

To be honest, it's really not that bad an idea, for a number of reasons. If Australia's population is to expand, we might as well have new states, with new population centres up north.

 

[Andre]

I like it, but it'd require changing the constitution. I can't see WA or QLD wanting to lose major cash cow areas of their states. And assuming they were treated as states currently are in the Senate, then I'd expect the Senate to tilt to the Right.

And it would at least be in the short term possibly like Tasmania of undersized electorates to have a minimum of 5 per state.

 

[Caesar]

*facepalm*


This is a question for WA and Qld in the first instance, and the population of the NT in the second (who have never wanted statehood previously). It has very little to do with federal government.

 

[Subprime]

Its 50 to 100 years ahead of its time but North Queensland especially is a long way from Brisbane and seems to be developing a long-term independant streak. It also has a significant population.

Bob Katter - Minister for the Development of Northern Australia - please step forward.

 

[Caesar]

It's not a bad idea in principle - northern Qld and WA have been screwed by their metrocentric state governments for a long time - but there are a heck of a lot of issues. For example, does anyone have an idea of the population of those hypothetical states? I'm not sure we need more Tasmanias.

Also, Territorians are pretty happy with the status quo. If they didn't want statehood then I'm not sure they want to be divided up between a couple of other states either. And South Australia had to go through a lot to get rid of the headache that is Alice Springs, I don't know if they'd really want it back.

Anyway, it's the sort of thing that would be driven by multilateral talks between the states involved - not from the federal government level. And given that the state governments already complain about the feds skimming too much of their resources I'm not sure they'll be too keen to give up some of their major mining areas to new governments.

 

[Subprime]

It's not a bad idea in principle - northern Qld and WA have been screwed by their metrocentric state governments for a long time - but there are a heck of a lot of issues. For example, does anyone have an idea of the population of those hypothetical states? I'm not sure we need more Tasmanias.

Also, Territorians are pretty happy with the status quo. If they didn't want statehood then I'm not sure they want to be divided up between a couple of other states either. And South Australia had to go through a lot to get rid of the headache that is Alice Springs, I don't know if they'd really want it back.

Anyway, it's the sort of thing that would be driven by multilateral talks between the states involved - not from the federal government level. And given that the state governments already complain about the feds skimming too much of their resources I'm not sure they'll be too keen to give up some of their major mining areas to new governments.

NQ would be around the 300k mark with Townsville ~180k, Darwin is pushing ~120k so NW Aust might stretch to 200k.

The Territory has always benefited from Commonwealth money and is unlikely to seek statehood until the economics make sense.

Its a kooky long-term idea from Katter but you need to get used to the new reality, he's da man.

 

[Clay Davis]

Looking at his proposed map, North Queensland would have about half of Australia's bauxite, probably more than half of Australia's coal (he's making a fair grab of that area), and pretty much all of its lead, zinc and molybdenum. His electorate is quite mineral rich in itself.

North Western Australia doesn't seem to include the Pilbara. It would have most if not all of Australia's manganese, maybe a fair bit of uranium, some copper. It would be quite a poor state.

 

[Wicked Lester]

I like it, but it'd require changing the constitution. I can't see WA or QLD wanting to lose major cash cow areas of their states.

Bingo. there's the issue.

 

[pazza]

Indeed Subby. It's to be admired.

 

[Pessimistic]

maybe is the senate was unlinked from states and represented areas - city, regional or bush, the competing interests could be better represented in parliament.

why worry about more states when the aim should be to make them less relevent

 

[Clay Davis]

Bingo. there's the issue.

WA would be giving up almost nothing in terms of mining resources. Queensland would have much more to lose.

 

[Subprime]

Looking at his proposed map, North Queensland would have about half of Australia's bauxite, probably more than half of Australia's coal (he's making a fair grab of that area), and pretty much all of its lead, zinc and molybdenum. His electorate is quite mineral rich in itself.

North Western Australia doesn't seem to include the Pilbara. It would have most if not all of Australia's manganese, maybe a fair bit of uranium, some copper. It would be quite a poor state.

I reckon Bob would have spent more time pouring over the NQ borders than the other ones.

 

[Clay Davis]

I reckon Bob would have spent more time pouring over the NQ borders than the other ones.

Yeah, I'd say he just drew a line randomly for WA.

I can also see where he's coming from in terms of mining development. QLD govt take a dim view of oil shale and uranium - there are some big prospects up there for those commodities, and it somewhat annoys the FNQ locals in that they're quite happy for these minerals to be explored for and mined.

 

[KUNG FU]

Let's fix vertical fiscal imbalance before we dabble in regionalism. In any case New England probably has a much stronger claim. Wouldn't be surprised if Windsor and Oakeshott jumped on this bandwagon now.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

If we're redrawing state boundaries, Victoria will take some of southern New South Wales.

Im sure that Tasmania also wouldn't mind being split into Noth and South Tasmania.

 

[Caesar]

lol, whatever. You really think the people in Griffith and Wagga would prefer the arseclowns from Melbourne to the arseclowns from Sydney?

Maybe right now whilst we have possibly the worst longstanding government of any state or territory in history, but ordinarily - you're dreaming.

 

[Subprime]

Yeah, I'd say he just drew a line randomly for WA.

I can also see where he's coming from in terms of mining development. QLD govt take a dim view of oil shale and uranium - there are some big prospects up there for those commodities, and it somewhat annoys the FNQ locals in that they're quite happy for these minerals to be explored for and mined.

Its a wonder he didn't just extend the NQ/SQ line west of the NT border to provide the southern border of NW Aust. That would scoop up the Pilbara, no?

Then again Katter's probably thinking 3 moves ahead on this one.

 

[sen entertainment bloke]

Good right wing senate coming up. Way to go.

 

[Clay Davis]

Its a wonder he didn't just extend the NQ/SQ line west of the NT border to provide the southern border of NW Aust. That would scoop up the Pilbara, no?

Then again Katter's probably thinking 3 moves ahead on this one.

Yeah, same latitude would incorporate Pilbara.

 

[The_Reaper]

So for some reason Northwest Australia doesn't include any of the mines?

 

[Caesar]

Good right wing senate coming up. Way to go.

Interestingly enough (IIRC, hopefully I'm remembering right) new states aren't guaranteed the same number of Senators as the original states, whose entitlements are enshrined. Technically you could create new states and as long as they had at least one senator (and thus were represented in the 'states' house') they'd be constitutionally valid.

I'm sure they'd be given equal standing to the other states though.

 

[Clay Davis]

So for some reason Northwest Australia doesn't include any of the mines?

It includes all of the existing NT mines, and stuff like Argyle, but yeah, it wouldn't be much stronger than NT is already in terms of mining.