We are in deep Shite!!

[CURVE]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

It's time to sound the alarm bells, it's time to panic...well maybe not panic, but we are in deep shite and even the King (our savour) can't get us out of this mess.

We have won one quarter out of 12.
We've lead for 37.5 minutes out of 397 minutes (Approx).
We've had 50 scoring shots to 100.

AND IT'S ONLY ROUND THREE!!!!

I think it's safe to say that the Pagan's Paddock game plan that worked so wonderfully over the last five or so years is now past it's used by date. Denis has to think of something new... and fast.

Being the opinionated idiot I am, I spent the Easter Monday (well 10 minutes) working out a possible line up for this weeks game against Geelong. While I'm not as knowledgeable as Mr Pagan on the Kangaroos strengths and weaknesses, I do expect him to follow my lead and line the team up as follows next Sunday:

F: Cochrane Rocca Watt
HF: Pickett McCartney Simpson
C: Colbert Stevens King
HB: Blakey Carey Archer
B: Makepeace Martyn Grant
F: McKernan Harvey Harris
I: Clayton Jones L. Smith D. Smith

If Martyn is again unavailable, move Watt to fullback and bring in Lange.

Burton should not be allowed to play seniors again, and the same for McKernan, but unfortunately that would leave us with two inexperienced ruckman in Lindsay Smith and Drew Petrie, so he can stay for the time being. Sinclair should spend a couple of weeks in the twos until he gets his confidence back.

As for McCartney and Carey swapping positions. The bashing and crashing that Carey has taken over the last seven or eight years has taken too greater toll, and I think it's time to move him from CHF. By moving him to CHB, he can still greatly influence the game without being dragged out the play. Something that can happen if he moves to the goal square. While McCartney has proven over the last couple of seasons that he has become a great defensive player, his marking and kicking prowess could become a positive factor.
Pickett should be moved forward, where he ball skills would be of greater use, and Cochrane deserves to keep his place, which will annoy a few people, but I think that is a sign of just how badly we are playing.



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Are We Not Men
We Are DEVO

 

[The invisible mullet]

Devo

I have to agree with you re Spider Burton. I think we should have a temporary seniors moratorium on ex Dockers players. Not sure about Carey and Grant in the backline though (I admit though that McCartney is really looking out of sorts - does he think he's back at Collingwood).

 

[SoggyBoy]

Jocko Homo,

I'd rather put the inexperienced ruckman in.

McKernan has had plenty of chances and continues to give us nothing.

At least if the inexperienced ruckman give us the same output, they'd still be getting much needed experience.

Monogloid, he was a *********
Happier than you and me

PS: DEVO was the first concert I ever went to...and I loved it

 

[Shinboners]

Leave McCartney at centre half back. Someone (here maybe) had noted that the Pies had tried to turn him into a centre half forward, but that's not McCartney's preferred position. He may have had a slow start to the season, but he's not the only one in that respect. Don't forget, last season when he had Archer and Martyn out, it was McCartney that held the back line together.


Shinboners listens to and recommends Belle and Sebastian

 

[choppy]

Devo,

I was originall thinking that you had Grant and Simpson arse about but maybe not.

Whats your theory on Grant on a half back flank. He's defensive skills are not notable. The only thing I think of is that he could hit a target running of half back rather than Simmo who does play tall and could take a mark across half forward.

 

[Rooboy 96]

So DEVO being negative again I see... this is becoming a habit with you...

 

[CURVE]

Rooboy, we have a percentage of 45 after three games. 45. Shall I repeat it again. 45. It's hard to remain positive when you've watched you team getting flogged week in week out, although we did have a particularly difficult start to the season. Anyway, I don't think I was particularly negative in my comments. I thought I was being more constructive, but then I did say I was an opinionated idiot, so maybe I read what I wrote wrong.

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Are We Not Men
We Are DEVO

 

[Rooboy 96]

DEVO... you are the same DEVO that bagged the club over the Canberra experiment... there are some that should just buy a membership... and then shut the thuck up...

DEVO... have you ever had anything positive to say about the club???

 

[THE ICON]

IT APPEARS THAT CHRONIC DEPRESSION HAS AFFECTED DEDO.

HOPE IT DOESN`T LEAD TO RIGOR MORTIS.


THE ICON

 

[CURVE]

Rooboy, If it's negative to show concern and ask questions regarding the clubs future, then I'm as guilty as hell. The club can't afford to make mistakes when it comes to Canberra or any endevours it makes in the future, and that was all I was pointing out.

As for this post, you are obviously a fan of Matthew Burton, and was greatly impressed with his magnificent performance on the weekend, so I'll try not to be so negative towards him in the future.

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Are We Not Men
We Are DEVO

[This message has been edited by DEVO (edited 18 April 2001).]

 

[CURVE]

Originally posted by choppy:
Devo,

I was originall thinking that you had Grant and Simpson arse about but maybe not.

Whats your theory on Grant on a half back flank. He's defensive skills are not notable. The only thing I think of is that he could hit a target running of half back rather than Simmo who does play tall and could take a mark across half forward.

Choppy, my reason for dropping Grant to the HBF was due to his ability to read the play and return the ball forward accurately and to our advantage. Our rebounding from defence hasn't been that good so far.

I hope I didn't sound too negative??

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Are We Not Men
We Are DEVO

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by Rooboy 96:
DEVO... have you ever had anything positive to say about the club???

DEVO... still waiting for your answer...

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by DEVO:
As for this post, you are obviously a fan of Matthew Burton, and was greatly impressed with his magnificent performance on the weekend, so I'll try not to be so negative towards him in the future.

I have no problem with Spider... he had a shocker... but the players need our support... now more then ever before...

If you think one player is the reason we have been flogged in the first three rounds... you are wrong and are merely looking for a scapegoat... I agree with Pagan that the mentality of the players as a group needs to change...

The only thing I agree with you about is that maybe the paddock is dead... but I am also sure that if it is dead... Denis will realise this and come up with another masterpiece of tactical play... that will baffle his peers for a few more years...

 

[CURVE]

Originally posted by DEVO:
Rooboy, If it's negative to show concern and ask questions regarding the clubs future, then I'm as guilty as hell.

I answered. I'm as guilty as hell.

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Are We Not Men
We Are DEVO

 

[CURVE]

Originally posted by Rooboy 96:
I have no problem with Spider... he had a shocker... but the players need our support... now more then ever before...

If you think one player is the reason we have been flogged in the first three rounds... you are wrong and are merely looking for a scapegoat... I agree with Pagan that the mentality of the players as a group needs to change...

I do have a problem with Burton. His only real advantage is his height, and he hasn't taken advantage of that yet this year. Maybe it's a lack of confidence or something, but his inability to tap the ball to our advantage and his lack of mobility around the ground make him our biggest liability at the moment.
Of course sacking Burton isn't going to soley turn around an 80 point thrashing, but the game does start in the middle, and if we can take control of the centre square, we'll go a long way towards turn around a disasterous start to the season.
It time to give a few more of the younger guys a go, like Lindsay Smith and Corey Jones.

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Are We Not Men
We Are DEVO

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by DEVO:
I answered. I'm as guilty as hell.

DEVO... the question was have you ever said anything positive about our club??? not are you being negative now...

Shite...
2 Premierships
3 Grand Finals
7 Consecutive Prelims
8 Consecutive Finals Series
65% + winning ratio

all this in the last eight years in an era of equalization... some people on this board are so spoilt... they don't realise how lucky they have been... thuck imagine barracking for...

Sydney... last premiership... if you include South Melbourne was before my mother was born...

Bulldogs... 1 premiership in 1954... (please don't be offended Westyboy)

Collingwood... 2 premierships in the last 50+ years...

Saints... 1 premiership back before colour television...

Melbourne... their last premiership before I was born...

Richmond... 1 Finals Series in the last 20 odd years...

Geelong... the list just goes on and on...

Fitzroy... sadly gone

so of the 12 VFL clubs that helped form the AFL we sit comfortably with Carlton Essendon and Hawthorn... as teams that have something more then a fluke to be proud of in the last 25 odd years...

 

[Yianni]

Rooboy 96,

I don't think that DEVO is saying that we've never done well. He is saying that we aren't doing well NOW. Which is a fair enough point. It even says so in the newsletter which came with my membership. "Dennis and Wayne know, however, that the club cannot afford to bask in past glories"

The simple fact remains that North are 0-3, didn't finish last year off too well, beat the 16th, 15th and 13th team in the Ansett cup, and are not playing smart football.

I don't think the list is the problem. We have great players. The problem is the gameplan. They don't value possession enough, so they spend the whole game chasing tails (esp. agst. faster teams) The random long bomb and hope has to go, it is not the way to play NOW (Note, I said NOW. I am not saying that it didn't work to get us into 7 prelims, etc, etc. I'm saying its used by date is up NOW)

I'm just concerned. I don't think North can afford 5 years down the bottom of the ladder like Collingwood has had.

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by Yianni:
I'm just concerned. I don't think North can afford 5 years down the bottom of the ladder like Collingwood has had.

A fair point, but I don't think North have the type of administration or culture that was a contributing factor in ensuring Collingwood's (and for that matter, Richmond's) underperformance over the years. When Richmond went into decline, the attitude at that club was "We're Richmond, the laws of nature dictate that we will return to the top no matter what we do". It's been the same with Collingwood...they believed that by virture of being Collingwood, their natural place was at the top of the ladder. Remember how much shock there was at that club when favourite son, Tony Shaw, pointed out that 1 flag in 40 years was a pathetic effort? It took them another three years (under Rose) before they did anything to change the club culture.

North Melbourne have a different culture....we've had it since we were in the VFL. We've had to fight for everything, we don't take success for granted, and the club doesn't rest on its laurels, we've never taken our on-field success for granted. We don't have the born to rule mentality that brought down Collingwood and Richmond (and Melbourne since 1964). Likewise, we don't have the losers mentality (close enough is good enough) that has stopped the Bulldogs, St. Kilda, and Geelong.

We may spend time at the bottom, but I doubt whether it'll be a Collingwood type scenario of a near decade long finals drought.

 

[CJH]

Originally posted by Shinboners:
A fair point, but I don't think North have the type of administration or culture that was a contributing factor in ensuring Collingwood's (and for that matter, Richmond's) underperformance over the years. When Richmond went into decline, the attitude at that club was "We're Richmond, the laws of nature dictate that we will return to the top no matter what we do".

...

Correct!

It is my perception that there have been 3 distinct phases of culture at Richmond since the early 80's.

The first is the one you speak of. This culture led to an apathy that nearly killed us and jolted us into the second.

The second - in the early 90's - was one that we now knew that it wouldn't just be automatic and that we would have to work for any future glories - it's just that we really didn't know how to do it.

In the third (and current) phase I feel we have worked out that some planning and skill are also necessary to climb to the top.

Now we have to start believing that we are premiership material and not accepting anything less.

This is the Carlton culture and it seems to work pretty well for them!

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King of the Jungle - TigerFury.net -Independant Richmond Tigers website

 

[CURVE]

Originally posted by Rooboy 96:
DEVO... the question was have you ever said anything positive about our club??? not are you being negative now...

Rooboy, I've never considered my responces to be negative...well most of them anyway...but I've always questioned the direction taken by the club, which is my right to do as a member of the club and as a life long supporter. If I sound negative is only because I'm concerned for the future of the club and it's position in the league.

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Are We Not Men
We Are DEVO

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by DEVO:
Rooboy, I've never considered my responces to be negative...well most of them anyway...but I've always questioned the direction taken by the club, which is my right to do as a member of the club and as a life long supporter. If I sound negative is only because I'm concerned for the future of the club and it's position in the league.

DEVO... thanks for trying to answer the question... but really have you ever said anything positive about our club... Answering thi question should not be this hard...

 

[Rooboy 96]

all it would take is... Yes I was estatic after the 96 flag and I made sure the whole world knew about it... or no I am just a negative sort of person...

 

[CURVE]

Rooboy, Do you expect me to list every positive remark I've made??

I've said positive things about the young guns that have played so far this season. I've been positive about our past (especially Keith Grieg) and most of our present players and I've been mostly positive about our board who I've said time and time again should be congratulated on the time and effort they've put into keeping the club at the top. Considering the facilities available to them, I've no doubt we have the best people working for us.

I hope I'm not being negative


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Are We Not Men
We Are DEVO

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by DEVO:
Rooboy, Do you expect me to list every positive remark I've made??

I've said positive things about the young guns that have played so far this season. I've been positive about our past (especially Keith Grieg) and most of our present players and I've been mostly positive about our board who I've said time and time again should be congratulated on the time and effort they've put into keeping the club at the top. Considering the facilities available to them, I've no doubt we have the best people working for us.

I hope I'm not being negative

DEVO... one was all I asked for... but thanks anyway... now get those kicking boots back on...

 

[Malibu]

Ahhhh, does this mean that you two are going to kiss and make up?