What's done is done...

[CharlieG]

so moving on, what has to happen to get back into the top four next year?

I think we've marginally improved our 'best 22' by replacing Schneider with Mattner. We've acquired some key position depth in Henry Playfair - very ordinary, but better than none at all.

Now that Dempster is gone, I suspect Brennan will be retained to serve as a spare parts defender. He has to be promoted due to age. Barlow will be promoted as well, and I think Jack will too - it'd be quite a risk to delist him and try to re-rookie him... unless, that is, he could count as a NSW rookie? What is the rule here?

Anyway, let's assume that he will be promoted. That's a net gain of three players, meaning we have to remove six from the list. Vogels and Phillips appear to be two on the chopping block, but who else? It's hard to imagine Doyle being delisted now, with Currie still only 18 and Everitt turning 34.

The only other players I could point at as being potentially in trouble are Kristin Thornton, Jonathon Simpkin and Ryan Brabazon. Perhaps Liz or another regular ressies watcher could chime in here? I'd particularly hate to see Thornton delisted, as a bottom-aged 'project' it'd be very disappointing to see him cut before he was ever expected to get a game.

We can avoid delisting two players by putting Leo Barry and Michael O'Loughlin 'outside' the senior list. Both are eligible to do so as veterans. The opportunity cost of this is that it means two fewer rookies.

Anyway, I still think we're in desperate need of an outside mid to come on in the next year. We've got in Mattner but offset that gain by giving away Schneider, so our midfield is still out of balance and lacking in pace. Jarred Moore's time to make a mark is now. I also hope to see Daniel O'Keefe and Craig Bird make debuts.

We're old. It might be that we get one more chance in 2008. I suspect we'll know by half-way through the year. If it becomes clear that we cannot challenge for the flag again, it's time to tap Crouch and Mathews on the shoulder. It might also be that Leo Barry, Michael O'Loughlin and Jude Bolton are on notice.

 

[EatBig Australia]

so moving on, what has to happen to get back into the top four next year?

I think we've marginally improved our 'best 22' by replacing Schneider with Mattner. We've acquired some key position depth in Henry Playfair - very ordinary, but better than none at all.

Now that Dempster is gone, I suspect Brennan will be retained to serve as a spare parts defender. He has to be promoted due to age. Barlow will be promoted as well, and I think Jack will too - it'd be quite a risk to delist him and try to re-rookie him... unless, that is, he could count as a NSW rookie? What is the rule here?

Anyway, let's assume that he will be promoted. That's a net gain of three players, meaning we have to remove six from the list. Vogels and Phillips appear to be two on the chopping block, but who else? It's hard to imagine Doyle being delisted now, with Currie still only 18 and Everitt turning 34.

The only other players I could point at as being potentially in trouble are Kristin Thornton, Jonathon Simpkin and Ryan Brabazon. Perhaps Liz or another regular ressies watcher could chime in here? I'd particularly hate to see Thornton delisted, as a bottom-aged 'project' it'd be very disappointing to see him cut before he was ever expected to get a game.

We can avoid delisting two players by putting Leo Barry and Michael O'Loughlin 'outside' the senior list. Both are eligible to do so as veterans. The opportunity cost of this is that it means two fewer rookies.

Anyway, I still think we're in desperate need of an outside mid to come on in the next year. We've got in Mattner but offset that gain by giving away Schneider, so our midfield is still out of balance and lacking in pace. Jarred Moore's time to make a mark is now. I also hope to see Daniel O'Keefe and Craig Bird make debuts.

We're old. It might be that we get one more chance in 2008. I suspect we'll know by half-way through the year. If it becomes clear that we cannot challenge for the flag again, it's time to tap Crouch and Mathews on the shoulder. It might also be that Leo Barry, Michael O'Loughlin and Jude Bolton are on notice.

I feel a bit better now that Roos has admitted we were having salary cap problems and that is why we had to get rid of a couple. Mattner is a great pickup. Playfair has played in defence in the VFL, hope he gets a crack there as is 198cm and could really help out Bolton and Leo. Could swing from end to end?

Vogels is 100% gone now we have Playfair but a little unsure about the others.

 

[jerry springer]

excuse me butting in to your board but are you guys still getting the extra 600-800k for salary cap consessions?

 

[CharlieG]

excuse me butting in to your board but are you guys still getting the extra 600-800k for salary cap consessions?

We're not going to get into this argument again, but we get 7% extra for cost-of-living. I don't know what that translates into in terms of dollars, but I guess it would be around the $450-500k mark.

 

[FM0226]

The schneider trade makes the delist process really muddled. As CharlieG had mentioned Brennan is very likely to be promoted now that Dempster is gone. I'm actually not a huge fan of Simon Phillips but you would he must be kept given our lack of depth in small forwards - in my view, a fairly one-dimension goal-snapper that can get us 3/4 goals in one game occasionally, but very little elsewhere. Someone that can kick us 30-35 goals a season and nothing else. When our team is firing, he could be handy, when we're not, he can be a liability...so not sure about him.

I presume laidlaw will be safe, so in that leaves Brabazon and Thornton. Out of the two I'd prefer Thornton - maybe he can be re-rookied? Given that we re-signed Jolly, do we giveup on either one of Earl Shaw or Sam Rowe? I prefer Rowe of the two.

Faulks, if the rumours are true, maybe a surprised delistment. Personally I'll like to see Matthews and Crouch retire, but obviously that's not going to happen. Vogels and maybe Simpkin are the two more obvious ones.

 

[DST]

excuse me butting in to your board but are you guys still getting the extra 600-800k for salary cap consessions?

We get 7% of the $8.2 million which is around $575,000.

But there is strict conditions now on how it can be distributed (ie $4,500 for for first year players etc), so we can't just move the extra around the list when it suits us.

The whole notion that this extra 7% helps us spend up big to attract players or retain most is a nonsense.

DST

 

[jerry springer]

We're not going to get into this argument again, but we get 7% extra for cost-of-living. I don't know what that translates into in terms of dollars, but I guess it would be around the $450-500k mark.

No arguements here Charlie,just was curious if you still had it,considering the Cap problems you seem to have.I guess its the result of having a sucessful 5 year period,you simply have to pay your players more.

 

[jerry springer]

We get 7% of the $8.2 million which is around $575,000.

But there is strict conditions now on how it can be distributed (ie $4,500 for for first year players etc), so we can't just move the extra around the list when it suits us.

The whole notion that this extra 7% helps us spend up big to attract players or retain most is a nonsense.

DST

cheers

 

[Johnny Roberts]

excuse me butting in to your board but are you guys still getting the extra 600-800k for salary cap consessions?

Ahh I love it when the "Eddie Puppets" bring this up - what about the Veteran's list and Marketing dollars that Buckley got outside of the Salary Cap- ohh Eddie didn't mention that did he.

If I was you, I would be more concerned as to why Collingwood missed out on another big name player in Judd

Add Judd to the list of plugger, gehrig, n. stevens- all down to Collingwood overrating their players again!!

 

[MF]

Ahh I love it when the "Eddie Puppets" bring this up - what about the Veteran's list and Marketing dollars that Buckley got outside of the Salary Cap- ohh Eddie didn't mention that did he.

If I was you, I would be more concerned as to why Collingwood missed out on another big name player in Judd

Add Judd to the list of plugger, gehrig, n. stevens- all down to Collingwood overrating their players again!!

It was an honest question mate. I don't think he was trolling so no need to have a go at him.

 

[Johnny Roberts]

Fair call- I didn't read the whole post Malceski fan-

 

[Liesha]

so moving on, what has to happen to get back into the top four next year?

I think we've marginally improved our 'best 22' by replacing Schneider with Mattner. We've acquired some key position depth in Henry Playfair - very ordinary, but better than none at all.

Now that Dempster is gone, I suspect Brennan will be retained to serve as a spare parts defender. He has to be promoted due to age. Barlow will be promoted as well, and I think Jack will too - it'd be quite a risk to delist him and try to re-rookie him... unless, that is, he could count as a NSW rookie? What is the rule here?

Anyway, let's assume that he will be promoted. That's a net gain of three players, meaning we have to remove six from the list. Vogels and Phillips appear to be two on the chopping block, but who else? It's hard to imagine Doyle being delisted now, with Currie still only 18 and Everitt turning 34.

The only other players I could point at as being potentially in trouble are Kristin Thornton, Jonathon Simpkin and Ryan Brabazon. Perhaps Liz or another regular ressies watcher could chime in here? I'd particularly hate to see Thornton delisted, as a bottom-aged 'project' it'd be very disappointing to see him cut before he was ever expected to get a game.

We can avoid delisting two players by putting Leo Barry and Michael O'Loughlin 'outside' the senior list. Both are eligible to do so as veterans. The opportunity cost of this is that it means two fewer rookies.

Anyway, I still think we're in desperate need of an outside mid to come on in the next year. We've got in Mattner but offset that gain by giving away Schneider, so our midfield is still out of balance and lacking in pace. Jarred Moore's time to make a mark is now. I also hope to see Daniel O'Keefe and Craig Bird make debuts.

We're old. It might be that we get one more chance in 2008. I suspect we'll know by half-way through the year. If it becomes clear that we cannot challenge for the flag again, it's time to tap Crouch and Mathews on the shoulder. It might also be that Leo Barry, Michael O'Loughlin and Jude Bolton are on notice.

Keeping our best players (ie: Kennelly) injury-free and on the park might be a good starting point. I think a few of our guys have probably gotten a bit of a reality check with all the goings-on during draft week, hopefully we see a few step up next year. Looking forward to 2008.

 

[MF]

Fair call- I didn't read the whole post Malceski fan-

Fair enough. Generally when a post from a collingwood fan starts like that you know where it's going to go.

 

[SOPH_CROSS]

Its still hurting and im still crying i keep thinking its a bad dream that im going to wake up and Schneider is still here
but i guess next year im gonna have a secret weak spot for the saints

i guess its all for the good of the club
gonna take me awhile to get back to liking Paul Roos

but if we make the top next year i guess it shows we've done right

Still the swans will never be the same with out Schneider

 

[natlovestheswans]

We can avoid delisting two players by putting Leo Barry and Michael O'Loughlin 'outside' the senior list. Both are eligible to do so as veterans. The opportunity cost of this is that it means two fewer rookies.

I thought this happened at the end of last year, i'm sure atleast one of them was put on the veterans list. Maybe there was only talk of it though..

We're old. It might be that we get one more chance in 2008. I suspect we'll know by half-way through the year. If it becomes clear that we cannot challenge for the flag again, it's time to tap Crouch and Mathews on the shoulder. It might also be that Leo Barry, Michael O'Loughlin and Jude Bolton are on notice.

Isn't it already time for that tap on the shoulder? Especially when it comes to Crouch.

 

[CharlieG]

Nat, they're probably already on the veteran's list, but clubs can choose whether they are included in the senior list of 38 players or not. Leo and Mick are both still on the senior list, so we can move them outside of it if we wish - it just means fewer spots for rookie list players.

 

[natlovestheswans]

Nat, they're probably already on the veteran's list, but clubs can choose whether they are included in the senior list of 38 players or not. Leo and Mick are both still on the senior list, so we can move them outside of it if we wish - it just means fewer spots for rookie list players.

Ah, right.

Confusing.. but i think i understand.

 

[CharlieG]

Basically, clubs can have as many veterans as they like. Up to two of them do not have to be counted in the list of 38 players that clubs are allowed to have.

Perhaps a simplified way of looking at it is that Sydney can have 38 senior players and 9 rookies, but if we like we can have two extra senior players, as long as they are veterans, and instead only have 7 rookies.

 

[scottwade]

I thought this happened at the end of last year, i'm sure atleast one of them was put on the veterans list. Maybe there was only talk of it though..




Isn't it already time for that tap on the shoulder? Especially when it comes to Crouch.

They are both on the vets list, so only half their salary is accounted for in the cap, but they are known as vets 'inside the list'.
In other words they are included in the total permissible list of 38.

Vets can also be named 'outside' the list, effectively giving a team (with eligible vets) 40 senior players.

So assuming Barry & O'Loughlin are moved to the second option in 2008, it frees up 2 spots on the senior list.

And I'd suggest a bit more than a tap for Crouch, but he is Roos' love child, so I can't see that happening.

 

[Gun Barrel Straight]

I am seething. Pretty disgusted by this trade actually.

Schneider is worth a half decent player at any team and we get a mediocre pick and throw in Dempster for good measure.

Can't do much about it now. But really, you can;'t help but think Roos must have been desperate to offload Schneider for such a weak pick.

It's basically Schneider for Mattner is an upgrade i think, but to have let Schneider go so cheaply burns in my stomach.

 

[VanBerlo=God]

i think schnides wasn't much more than surplus to the club for the entire year.
When he is on fire, he is unstoppable, but when he is off, he doesnt deserve to grace the ground he is that far beyond ordinary.
Then again he alone cannot be held accountable for Sydney's extremely poor year.

 

[DST]

I am seething. Pretty disgusted by this trade actually.

Schneider is worth a half decent player at any team and we get a mediocre pick and throw in Dempster for good measure.

Can't do much about it now. But really, you can;'t help but think Roos must have been desperate to offload Schneider for such a weak pick.

It's basically Schneider for Mattner is an upgrade i think, but to have let Schneider go so cheaply burns in my stomach.

What has Scheinder done in the last two years that warrants more than a second round pick?

I love Scheinder, but I just don't understand how he has become this mythical player that should have commanded a first round pick.

As for Dempster, he was finished in Sydney at the end of next year after spenfing another year running around in Canberra.

In reality all these two players were doing was taking up two spots in our 22 that could be used week in, week out to play Schmidt or Moore or Barlow or Laidlaw.

We all want Roos to play the kids, he has now treaded to fee up the space but we get whinning about the deal.

DST

 

[scottwade]

We all want Roos to play the kids, he has now treaded to fee up the space but we get whinning about the deal.

DST

How many more times.
Schneider & Dempster are effectively kids.

Roos has had plenty of opportunities to play kids, but has failed to do so.
The only 'kid' who has established himself in the team in the last 2 years is Malceski and he's 23 (the same age as Dempster & Schneider).

And how exactly has he freed up space?

Roos has said he has selected Mattner & Playfair to fill specific needs and therefore one would expect he would play them before youngsters.

Mattner is 25 & Playfair is 24.

Indeed if we accept that only Schneider was a regular, it means with Mattner & Playfair playing that there will be one LESS spot available to blood youngsters.

Your argument is that "In reality all these two players were doing was taking up two spots in our 22 that could be used week in, week out to play Schmidt or Moore or Barlow or Laidlaw."

Clearly there will be even less opportunity now.

 

[FM0226]

What has Scheinder done in the last two years that warrants more than a second round pick?

I love Scheinder, but I just don't understand how he has become this mythical player that should have commanded a first round pick.

As for Dempster, he was finished in Sydney at the end of next year after spenfing another year running around in Canberra.

In reality all these two players were doing was taking up two spots in our 22 that could be used week in, week out to play Schmidt or Moore or Barlow or Laidlaw.

We all want Roos to play the kids, he has now treaded to fee up the space but we get whinning about the deal.

DST

I would say the players holding back spots are more the likes of Matthews and Crouch rather than Schneider and Dempster. You're right, no one will offer more than a second round pick for Schneider, but I will rather keep him and Dempster than getting a second round pick.

In my view, trading those two off just worsens our problems come 2009, 2010. How we manage to lose a pick and got even older after the trade week when we need to address the ageing list is beyond me.

 

[SMFC]

What has Scheinder done in the last two years that warrants more than a second round pick?

I love Scheinder, but I just don't understand how he has become this mythical player that should have commanded a first round pick.

As for Dempster, he was finished in Sydney at the end of next year after spenfing another year running around in Canberra.

In reality all these two players were doing was taking up two spots in our 22 that could be used week in, week out to play Schmidt or Moore or Barlow or Laidlaw.

We all want Roos to play the kids, he has now treaded to fee up the space but we get whinning about the deal.

DST

Doesn't the fact that both players were still contracted for another 2 years and both being 23/24 count for anything?

2nd Round draft pick is quite poor considering those situations.