Wheel of Time

likka

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Any other WOT fans on BF?

I've invested a lot of time in these books, which have gone down hill since Lord of Chaos, and am convinced Robert Jordan won't be able to complete the series due to his condition.

I've read through the entire series thrice, and reread sections I am vague on or enjoy pretty regularly.

Just think that if he hadn't wasted his time on New Spring the series may be complete already!

What are your favourite books, characters, plot lines and theories in WOT?
 

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Andre

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I'm a fan. I've got all the books in hard cover, including New Spring. I started reading it just before TDR was released, coming up on 15 odd years! I hope he gets/stays well enough to finish the last book. I think I'll desecrate his grave if he doesn't after that long :p Like you (and 95% of his readers) I agree it went downhill rapidly after book 6. However it started picking up again in the last book.

The reason, IMO, was seperating Mat from the Band of the Red Hand. From book 3 Jordan had built Mat up to be more then just a wastrel, surrounding him with a good bunch of followers, the best action scenes in the books and the best military formation since the trollocs wars with the Band. Then he goes and has Mat stuck trailing around after Elayne and Nynaeve, hen pecked by Tylin and then treated like dirt by Tuon.

I'd have traded the whole Elayne and the Lion throne plot line from book 5 onwards for more Mat.

My favourite 3 books would be The Shadow Rising (the Aiel history, the Tower split, Rand, Mat, Perrin and even Elayne and Nynaeve all have interesting plotlines, that actually (pretty much) get resolved), The Great Hunt and The Eye of the World.

Favourite plotlines - Perrin saving The Two Rivers, Rand and the Asha'man giving the Aes Sedai their due at Dumai's Wells, any battle with the Band of the Red Hand, Siuan being Stilled (where she turned from yet another high and mighty Aes Sedai into one of my favourite characters when she refused to lie down and die). We haven't seen much of it, but I'm also liking the bits with Ituralde spanking the Seanchan.

Favourite characters - Mat! You'd trust him with your life, if not your wife :p
Perrin was until he met Faile and became a simpering idiot.
Siuan once she was Stilled.
I also liked Moraine once she swore her oath to Rand.
Verin is interesting and I like Ituralde as well.
Oh and Thom is good for the intrigue he can weave.
And you can't go past Lan - at least once he's got a sword in his hand.
Of the dead characters I liked Niall - a very definite shade of gray and was hoping he'd get to realise he was on the wrong side.

Characters I can't stand - Faile - if my wife was like her I'd have gotten a divorce within a week. Aviendha and Elayne aren't much better.
I used to dislike Nynaeve, but unlike every other female character, she improved markedly once she hooked up with her man.
Cadsuane I wish would die a slow painful death. And I'm hoping we don't see any more of the Shaido, a bigger bunch of useless fools you couldn't imagine.

Prophecies I'm looking forward to -
any that involve the Aes Sedai being humbled, especially if Egwene has to bend knee to Rand. The Seanchan attack on the Tower is the one most looking forward to seeing.
 

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I'm a fan. I've got all the books in hard cover, including New Spring. I started reading it just before TDR was released, coming up on 15 odd years! I hope he gets/stays well enough to finish the last book. I think I'll desecrate his grave if he doesn't after that long :p Like you (and 95% of his readers) I agree it went downhill rapidly after book 6. However it started picking up again in the last book.

The reason, IMO, was seperating Mat from the Band of the Red Hand. From book 3 Jordan had built Mat up to be more then just a wastrel, surrounding him with a good bunch of followers, the best action scenes in the books and the best military formation since the trollocs wars with the Band. Then he goes and has Mat stuck trailing around after Elayne and Nynaeve, hen pecked by Tylin and then treated like dirt by Tuon.

I'd have traded the whole Elayne and the Lion throne plot line from book 5 onwards for more Mat.

My favourite 3 books would be The Shadow Rising (the Aiel history, the Tower split, Rand, Mat, Perrin and even Elayne and Nynaeve all have interesting plotlines, that actually (pretty much) get resolved), The Great Hunt and The Eye of the World.

Favourite plotlines - Perrin saving The Two Rivers, Rand and the Asha'man giving the Aes Sedai their due at Dumai's Wells, any battle with the Band of the Red Hand, Siuan being Stilled (where she turned from yet another high and mighty Aes Sedai into one of my favourite characters when she refused to lie down and die). We haven't seen much of it, but I'm also liking the bits with Ituralde spanking the Seanchan.

Favourite characters - Mat! You'd trust him with your life, if not your wife :p
Perrin was until he met Faile and became a simpering idiot.
Siuan once she was Stilled.
I also liked Moraine once she swore her oath to Rand.
Verin is interesting and I like Ituralde as well.
Oh and Thom is good for the intrigue he can weave.
And you can't go past Lan - at least once he's got a sword in his hand.
Of the dead characters I liked Niall - a very definite shade of gray and was hoping he'd get to realise he was on the wrong side.

Characters I can't stand - Faile - if my wife was like her I'd have gotten a divorce within a week. Aviendha and Elayne aren't much better.
I used to dislike Nynaeve, but unlike every other female character, she improved markedly once she hooked up with her man.
Cadsuane I wish would die a slow painful death. And I'm hoping we don't see any more of the Shaido, a bigger bunch of useless fools you couldn't imagine.

Prophecies I'm looking forward to -
any that involve the Aes Sedai being humbled, especially if Egwene has to bend knee to Rand. The Seanchan attack on the Tower is the one most looking forward to seeing.

That is pretty much spot on. I've probably read thru the whole series 3 times. And re-read some parts plenty more. I cannot re-read any of the Female parts until egwene become Amrilyn. They dont really go anywhere. I do wish Moraine had more face time as well as Verrin as they were interesting.

I hate Faile so much, worst character of any series or type anywhere. Way worse the Poochie the dog. She has basically killed Perrin's character. It's almost a chore reading his parts in the latter books.

Mat has been my favourite character since book 3. The only story i didnt like of his was the bit with Tylin. The rest is great. Cannot wait for him to go into the Snake and foxes people world and rescue moraine.

Tuon is another interesting character and the bits from her POV are some of the best in the most recent book.

Thom was far more interesting at the start of the series. Still has his moments but got boring after he swore to follow elaynes orders.

Rand was a good character and can still be interesting, but just seems to be getting less and less face time. Not to mention is being killed by some of the Characters that surround him. I.e Cadsuane, Avendhir and Elayne. Min is alright and i got nothing against her. She can be humorous too. I do love it when Rand returns after he was captured by the aes sedai.

The whole Black Ajah sub plot in the white tower was a waste of space. And so have the sea folk, could have done so much more with them like the aiel. In fact there is so much useless story line after the 5th book. Morgase, gets way to many chapters. Elayne, Avendhir boring. Their whole storyline is boring. Could of had Elayne on the throne in way less time. Bridgette is the only interesting part of that Storyline. Could probably remove half the stuff on the tower in exile. And probably a bunch of other crap that i cannot even remember.

I do enjoy the banter between all the forsaken. But it was a bit stupid when they got brought back to life.

Hope Jordan gets well cos i will be mightily pissed off if the series is not finished.
Just wish one fantasy author could finish a series.
 

wce_all_da_way

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If he doesn't finish the series... Bah, I haven't read it in awhile anyway. As all of you think, I think the series fell away badly. I read it all the way throught the first time but after that I find myself skipping whole plot lines because I can go and read a summary about it on the net, while still getting the good plot lines. Becoming more and more disappointing and I have a feeling the last book is just going to be a mess. But if he can pull it off, I will be very happy.
 

likka

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I am only up to book 5, and after reading some of that am not sure it is worth continuing!?!?! :confused:
You should definitely keep going, just expect the pace to slow down and the scope to bloat beyond where it really needs to go.

RJ introduce far too many non essential characters for my liking, and trivial plot sequences that add little to the main story. Main plot lines dragged on for books without resolution, and too much time was spent with characters I didn't really like. Having said all that you may have a completely different opinion to mine.

Like most things if you set your expectations low you'll probably really enjoy books 6-11... although Crossroad of Twilight was nothing but self indulgent drivel no matter which angle you look at it from.
 

likka

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If he doesn't finish the series...
His wife Harriet will finish it on his behalf. She has edited all the previous WOT books and knows how it is supposed to end.

Anyway, he has recovered enough to the point of being able to work on A Memory of Light. He has his amyliodosis under control ATM, we just have to hope the damage it did to his heart doesn't give him a heart attack before this series in complete.
 

wce_all_da_way

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His wife Harriet will finish it on his behalf. She has edited all the previous WOT books and knows how it is supposed to end.

Anyway, he has recovered enough to the point of being able to work on A Memory of Light. He has his amyliodosis under control ATM, we just have to hope the damage it did to his heart doesn't give him a heart attack before this series in complete.
Didn't know that, cheers. It would have been a real shame for the series to have disappeared with him.

Hopefully he does stay healthy, not just for the books.
 

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I am only up to book 5, and after reading some of that am not sure it is worth continuing!?!?! :confused:
Keep reading mate.
You won't be disappointed.
Scope too big? Yeah...
Too many characters? Probably...
For heroic fantasy lovers it's still a classic series that has to be read.
 

wce_all_da_way

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A quick question for everyone here, you all seem to enjoy fantasy series, what's some other good series?

I've read David Eddings' work. Was good but I was a fair bit younger when I read it and I don't remember if it was really meant for the more mature reader. Great series book, just can't remember that detail. Also read some of Feist's work which I liked and Goodkind's, which had a good story but it got a bit corny. Any other recommendations?
 

likka

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For heroic fantasy lovers it's still a classic series that has to be read.
Agree, just a pity the standard and focus of the first five books could not be maintained.

A quick question for everyone here, you all seem to enjoy fantasy series, what's some other good series?
At this point though I'd rate A Song of Ice and Fire series by George RR Martin as better... although we'll have to wait until both series are complete to be able to fairly compare them. First book is A Game of Thrones.

Robin Hobb's Farseer, Liveship Traders and Tawny Man trilogies are absolutely brilliant. If you like Fantasy then these nine books are an absolute must... some of the best books I've read of any genre. Liveship Traders is only loosely connected to the others and can be read independently, but I'd recommend reading these in order. There is a central character that ties the whole nine books together, although it is not obvious.

Stephen King's Dark Tower series is also really good.
 

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Andre

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A quick question for everyone here, you all seem to enjoy fantasy series, what's some other good series?

I've read David Eddings' work. Was good but I was a fair bit younger when I read it and I don't remember if it was really meant for the more mature reader. Great series book, just can't remember that detail. Also read some of Feist's work which I liked and Goodkind's, which had a good story but it got a bit corny. Any other recommendations?
I agree with Likka about Hobb's Assassin and Tawny man series - brilliant books. Skip Liveship Traders though, set in the same world, but it's as exciting as watching paint dry. Also ASoIaF is great, as is the Dark Tower (which is part sci-fi, horror and western as well as fantasy, and IMO, Kings best books of all). You don't mention the Lord of the Rings, so do yourself a favour and read it if you haven't.

Another good fantasy author I've been reading lately is Jennifer Fallon - an Aussie - The Hythrun chronicles and Demon Child series two trilogies set in the same world. Not quite the 'epic' fantasy of the others, but ones I found hard to put down once I started reading them.
 

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Disagree with you there... I thought this was the equal of the other series. Each to their own I suppose.
I loved the assassin trilogy but I really disliked the Live Ship series for some reason.
I haven't read the Tawny man because the Live Ships series was so boring.

Some of my other favourites are...
Feist: Everything he has written
Gemmell: Everything he has written
Sarah Douglass: The Axis trilogy and The Wayfarer Redemption Trilogy
 

gandaal

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I loved the assassin trilogy but I really disliked the Live Ship series for some reason.
I haven't read the Tawny man because the Live Ships series was so boring.

Some of my other favourites are...
Feist: Everything he has written
Gemmell: Everything he has written
Sarah Douglass: The Axis trilogy and The Wayfarer Redemption Trilogy
I didn't like the way it ended. There was a twist at the end that changed the ending from an interesting one, if a little unoriginal, to a very boring one. BTW I didn't read the Live Ships and my understanding of the series wasn't affected.

Sara Douglass' Axis trilogy is a fantastic read I agree, but the Wayfarer Redemption trilogy is just strange.

Recommended reading:
Faith of the Fallen- Terry Goodkind
If you've read the first four or five and gave up on the series due to how bad books 3 and onwards are you at least know the basics and you should give this book a read because its probably the best fantasy book I've read.

Harry Potter- Yeah sure its childish to begin with but it does grow into a fantastic fantasy series. Once you get past the first two you'll be hooked.

R. Scott Bakker- The Prince of Nothing Series
Fantasy of the highest order.

If want just a pulp fiction fantasy series with few pretentions you might try Traci Harding's The Ancient Future trilogy.

As for the guy who struggling at Book 5 of the Wheel of Time my advice is don't bother continuing because the first five or six are the best of the series. If you're still not sure then ask yourself this: Do you hate Rand and like Elyane, Egwene and Nynaeve? If your answer if yes then by all means read on.
 

wce_all_da_way

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Recommended reading:
Faith of the Fallen- Terry Goodkind
If you've read the first four or five and gave up on the series due to how bad books 3 and onwards are you at least know the basics and you should give this book a read because its probably the best fantasy book I've read.
This was the last SoT book I read (I'm re-reading the entire series in preparation for the last book) and this was the one I thought was a bit corny. I liked the storyline but just thought parts of it were overdone... especially in relation to the statue.

That's not to say I didn't enjoy the book.
 

gandaal

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This was the last SoT book I read (I'm re-reading the entire series in preparation for the last book) and this was the one I thought was a bit corny. I liked the storyline but just thought parts of it were overdone... especially in relation to the statue.

That's not to say I didn't enjoy the book.
Each to their own.

Although I've barely bothered to read on either but I still think the book was great.
 

gandaal

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I lost interest in the books after Faith of the Fallen... the story line kind of degenerates IMO. Too many books in the series, similar to WoT.
I don't think that's the issue with Sword of Truth. The issue is that all the Richard/Kahlan melodrama has been far overdone, yet when they're together Kahlan becomes are mere appendege of Richard. The series also suffers from a lack of direction and the characters are generally just being reactionary to the 'world is going to end' crisis that appears in that particular book.

The issue with the Wheel of Time is that nothing of any significance has happened since Rand conquered Cairhien and that was 7 books ago. Also the format of the first six or so books have been completely scrapped in favour of one filled with twenty of some rambling storylines going ever which way with no real end in sight.
 

wce_all_da_way

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I don't think that's the issue with Sword of Truth. The issue is that all the Richard/Kahlan melodrama has been far overdone, yet when they're together Kahlan becomes are mere appendege of Richard. The series also suffers from a lack of direction and the characters are generally just being reactionary to the 'world is going to end' crisis that appears in that particular book.

The issue with the Wheel of Time is that nothing of any significance has happened since Rand conquered Cairhien and that was 7 books ago. Also the format of the first six or so books have been completely scrapped in favour of one filled with twenty of some rambling storylines going ever which way with no real end in sight.
Very true, the comparison I was making was that of the lack of direction, both series seem to be leading to a final battle of some kind but they have taken too many books, or an unnecessary amount of separate plot lines to do so.

But I completely agree about the Richard/Kahlan summary you made.
 

Andre

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I lost interest in the books after Faith of the Fallen... the story line kind of degenerates IMO. Too many books in the series, similar to WoT.
Books 7 and 8 of Sword of Truth were bad, however the last were back on track. A bit like book 10 of Wheel of Time, could have been a handful of chapters in one of the others with no loss of the big overall story.

Kahlan I find an annoying character. Book 1, she's the all powerful mother confessor, requiring a team of 4 super-assassins to match her. Then she's kidnapped every 2nd book.

I liked book 6 of Sword of Truth, however it could easily be titled 'Why communism/socialism really really REALLY sucks', it's much more overtly political then the rest, so if conflicts with your real world view you could be put off.
 

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As for the guy who struggling at Book 5 of the Wheel of Time my advice is don't bother continuing because the first five or six are the best of the series. If you're still not sure then ask yourself this: Do you hate Rand and like Elyane, Egwene and Nynaeve? If your answer if yes then by all means read on.
Not struggling at book 5, actually enjoying it, but as a few have mentioned on here it goes a bit pear shaped after this book. That is a bit sad to hear as it has been enjoyable thus far.
errrr.....I guess from your last comment that the Rand storyline takes a back seat to that of Elayne, Egwene and Nyneave? That is a bit disappointing then as well.
I will probably push on. Got this far now.
 

likka

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Not struggling at book 5, actually enjoying it, but as a few have mentioned on here it goes a bit pear shaped after this book. That is a bit sad to hear as it has been enjoyable thus far.
errrr.....I guess from your last comment that the Rand storyline takes a back seat to that of Elayne, Egwene and Nyneave? That is a bit disappointing then as well.
I will probably push on. Got this far now.
Slows down after book 5 and introduces way too many extraneous characters... but still very much worthwhile reading. Stick with it :thumbsu:
 

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Slows down after book 5 and introduces way too many extraneous characters... but still very much worthwhile reading. Stick with it :thumbsu:
I've just finished book 5, the first couple of books really had me thinking that Jordan was just a Tolkien copycat, but from book 4 on it's been fresh and exciting.
 

Andre

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errrr.....I guess from your last comment that the Rand storyline takes a back seat to that of Elayne, Egwene and Nyneave? That is a bit disappointing then as well.
I will probably push on. Got this far now.
I rate books 1 - 6 and 11 as quality, 7-9 as a drag and 10 as the literary equivalent of watching paint dry. If you've finished book 5 it's not really a spoiler to say Elayne should be Queen with no issues as the Daughter Heir, except Jordan suddenly changes this to her having to win the throne - this riveting storyline drags on and on and on ... and on.

When I do a re-read of the series I read all of books 1 - 4, from book 5 I start skimming Egwene, Elayne and Nynaeve chapters to filter out the crap.

I won't tell you the ending, but if you feel like hitting most Aes Sedai (and it's hard not to), then you should finish the end of book 6 with a feeling of (some of) them getting everything 3000 years of arrogance deserves.
 

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