Who Is Due and Who Is On The Slide

[hotpie]

IMO the following players owe the club a very big year.....

Anthony Rocca
One good season since he arrived at the club is not good enough. We need him to getback to his 2002 form, if not improve on that. Owes us big time after getting rubbed out in the finals last year.

Josh Fraser
His second half of 2003 was extremely encouraging, as was his brave performance in the GF. This year Ihave no doubt that the competition will find out how good he really is.

Alan Didak
Didn't come on last year quite as well as expected but still young and will be a much harder player this year

Jason Cloke
Needs to prove he can blanket an opponent. Wakelin isn't getting any younger and we need somebody to put their hands up for a kp defensive spot. Also owes us after two disastrous Grand Finals.

The following are players who should be relied upon a little less than in past years:

Paul Licuria. Great heart but overrated. Needs to find a yard or he will be superceded by the likes of Holland.

Scott Burns. We will see him less in the midfield as he enters the twilight of his career. Historically he has been injury prone - lets hope his good fitness over the past few seasons holds up for a few more.

Nathan Buckley - will still be a star for years to come but might be better off spending a lot of time in defence, releasing younger types like Lonie and Johnson into the middle. If Buckley wins our b&f again it probably means we have not improved very much.

 

[Nic]

Would it be fair to put Ryan Lonie in the first group of players? Sure, he had a good reason for an average year, but he didn't do a whole lot the year preceeding that, either. So far his best year has been his first year, he needs to stand up because we all know he has what it takes.

 

[understudy]

Our whole bloody list is due imo.

 

[hotpie]

Lonie and R Shaw and Cole are all players who are due to go the next step as well. Tarrant isnt due as such, but we need him to not go backwards.

 

[leonmagic]

this may sound very out of left field for some, but i have a sneaking feeling that this year could be the end of licca being a walk-up starting 22 player.

players who owe us a good year: (no order)
* B.Kinnear (pretty obvious choice)
* A.Rocca (rubbed out for GF)
* R.Shaw (owes us for sticking up for him for the past 3 months)
* L.Davis (see R.Saw)

players who will start their purple patch of 4/5 years: (no order)
* J.Fraser (started 6 months ago really)
* A.Didak (more time in the middle will do him the world of good)
* C.Tarrant (yes, he will go another level)
* B.Johnson (very confident, very strong, and will now get some consistency)

 

[hotpie]

B Kinnear and L Davis owe us a good game. A year is way too much to ask.

 

[Lestat]

Originally posted by hotpie
B Kinnear and L Davis owe us a good game. A year is way too much to ask.

A good quater from Ben Kinnear is beyond his ability.

 

[conVINCEd]

If you guys don't want Licuria anymore, then we'll have him down at West Lakes. Why the negativity surrounding him?

 

[leonmagic]

well, a big heart can only get u so far

dont get me wrong, i love licca as much as anyone, but with the likes of Holland, Lockyer, Didak, O'Bree, B.Shaw, Cole and to a lesser extent Johnson and Nixon all going for a spot on the ball, it looks dodgey for him to keep his.

All of the above players have better footskills then licca, and midfielders NEED to be able to kick

 

[Nic]

I disagree, Lica gives a lot more to the team than some of those players do - yet. He's safe for awhile at least.

 

[lones37]

I also disagree, he is the only tagger i know of, bar cameron Ling, that tags and gets more of the ball himself. He had a downer last year after consecutive copelands, but he will bounce back. He is a quality player who will never be traded before the likes of Holland, Davis and Williams.

 

[sp-mac]

Rocca owes for PF incedent only

Don't worry about Fraser he's fine.

Whoever mentioned Burns is an idiot he held up his end through the dark 90s, (As well as an almost AA year last year) if anything we owe him.

Ben Johnson will be a star defender this year.

Didak needs to find a bit of consistency and endurance, then he'll be fine too.

Names that need a biggie in 04 are Lonie, Cole, Cloke, Williams and Woewodin.

As for Licuria struggling to make the 22, all I can do is put a big, fat,

 

[leonmagic]

i never said he WILL struggle to make it, its just a left field prediction.


i pose u this hypothetical:

if holland does just as good a job at tagging and ballwinning at the same time, why would licuria be picked ahead of him?

brodie is one of the more skilled players at the club, whereas licca is at the other end.

(this thread was very hard for me to write as licca is my 2nd fave and holland is my 2nd most hated at the pies!)

 

[hotpie]

Originally posted by Nic
I disagree, Lica gives a lot more to the team than some of those players do - yet. He's safe for awhile at least.

He's not going to get any better though, while others will. He's the only senior player to have failed miserably in both Grand Finals as well, so he has a monkey on his back

 

[hotpie]

Originally posted by sp-mac
Rocca owes for PF incedent only

His form throughout the 2003 season was patchy.

 

[MarkT]

Anyone who doesn't rate Lica doesn’t watch footy very closely. He is not super quick but he isn’t slow and rarely gets caught with the ball yet he often carries it. I think he was high up in the bounce stats last year. His kicking is not perfect but he has worked very hard on it and he rarely turns it over like in his early years. He is a player who can tag hard and still get the ball himself. He is miles ahead of any midfielder we have bar Buckley and Burns. No one will pass him in the next 2 years at least.

As for players that owe us I'd say Lonie and Didak disappointed last year and must show serious improvement in consistency this year as well as not being shut out of the game so easily when we are not on top. Guy Richards owes us because we have nurtured him for a few years and not recruited an alternative - showing a good deal of faith. 2004 is the year he must be a serious ruck option. He can't be developing for ever. Ben Kinnear owes but he won't pay. Silly to even ask him for anything. Interesting listening to Balme on SEN morning. A caller asked when Ben was going to produce and Balme said he had to obviously do it this year. Makes a 2 year contract all the more puzzling.

 

[Murray]

Unless he can be traded for a player getting paid a similar amount per year.
Silly me - who would want him.

 

[Nic]

Originally posted by hotpie
He's not going to get any better though, while others will. He's the only senior player to have failed miserably in both Grand Finals as well, so he has a monkey on his back

He may be at his best, but it doesn't mean he'll start going backwards. If his best is enough for two Copelands than he'll have to get a lot worse and quickly.

 

[Pedro]

Originally posted by leonmagic
this may sound very out of left field for some, but i have a sneaking feeling that this year could be the end of licca being a walk-up starting 22 player.

players who owe us a good year: (no order)
* B.Kinnear (pretty obvious choice)
* A.Rocca (rubbed out for GF)
* R.Shaw (owes us for sticking up for him for the past 3 months)
* L.Davis (see R.Saw)

players who will start their purple patch of 4/5 years: (no order)
* J.Fraser (started 6 months ago really)
* A.Didak (more time in the middle will do him the world of good)
* C.Tarrant (yes, he will go another level)
* B.Johnson (very confident, very strong, and will now get some consistency)

Not a bad list. Going to be hard for Kinnear to perform from Willi though I would suggest. Heard Balme on SEN this morning. "Definitely time to perform" "Make or break" etc. Heard it before but surely if he doesn't come good this year, they cannot justify keeping him on any longer. Its already bordering on laughing stock material.

Add Lonie to the "owes us" list. Probably a bit harsh and the excuses are there for him last year, but he has it all and its about time he delivered a bit more consistantly.

I also think Cole is primed to start showing a lot of improvement and will start coming to the fore for us. If he doesn't, at least you'll see him crunch a few blokes.

As for Licca, yes, thats very much out of left field imo.

 

[Pedro]

Originally posted by leonmagic
well, a big heart can only get u so far

dont get me wrong, i love licca as much as anyone, but with the likes of Holland, Lockyer, Didak, O'Bree, B.Shaw, Cole and to a lesser extent Johnson and Nixon all going for a spot on the ball, it looks dodgey for him to keep his.

All of the above players have better footskills then licca, and midfielders NEED to be able to kick

O'bree can't kick over a jam tin. Shaw and Nixon need to worry about getting into the side before they displace Licca. Lockyer ditto (When fit he will come of course, and yes, he is a better kick granted)

At the moment I think Johnson is the one most likely to get some time in the middle. I can't see any of them however rendering Licuria redundant in the middle though, at the moment.

 

[Nardz]

His leadership skills will keep him there, and lets face it, we need all the experience we can get.


he does the job, and until someone can replace him not only skills wise, but also leadership and experience, he'll still be there.

 

[GlovemanGayfer]

I'd take lica over O'Bree in a second. If you ask me the cheese is beginning to smell and owes us a lot more than Lica does. You take him out of the club and you lose its heart.

 

[Murray]

I disagree on O'Bree.

He plays his best footy in the middle.

After his bad run of injuries he came back into the team onto a half forward line.
Since then he has been left there (it is probably more because of the depth of our mid fielders).
I think if he was left in the middle he would recapture that form he displayed in his first couple of years.
I agree his kicking is not long but he can hit a leading target with accuracy.

Failing that trade him for a KP backman or someone that backup Josh, or take over, in the ruck.

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by hotpie
He's not going to get any better though, while others will. He's the only senior player to have failed miserably in both Grand Finals as well, so he has a monkey on his back

Lica wasn't dismal in 2002 although hye wasn;t great by any stretch of the imagination. Tarrant failed in both GF's. So did Davis but he isn't really a senior player. There were plenty thet were dismal failures in 2003 and a few ordinary in 2002. Lica will be good again this year.

 

[mick ryan]

I reckon the whole side is on a downward slide and will be lucky to finish above 7th and I wont be surprised if they dont make the eight.