Who will England find it hardest to replace?

[jeka]

After our immense victory an number of key players are expected to announce their retirement.

More will probably not make the next world cup.

Johnston, Hill, Back, Dallagio, Greenwood, Dawson, will almost certainly not make the next the world cup.

Personally I thinkl the scrum-half position is going to be the hardest to fill. Simply because of the lack of world class talent coming through.

What do the rest of you think?

 

[robbieando]

I think it will be most difficult to replace any forwards retirement's as even though England will have greater depth in most areas of the forward line, the fact most of the current forward pack is over 30 years of age and has been playing together for the best part of 6 years.

The reason I would be most worried about the forwards would be, that you have the best Flyhalf in the business and at 24 he'll be around for some time to come and should get even better before the next World Cup, when he will be 28. That being said even Johny himself can't put on his magic without the forwards giving him the space to do so.

Ben Kay will still be around and I think you'll get another World Cup out of Johnson, so your set in the line out. Lewis Moody will start to come into his best form and you have Steve Thompson at Hooker, Phil Vickery at Prop along with Trevor Woodman. Joe Worsley should take over at Number 8. So from you World Cup Squad you have your starting pack for the next World Cup, but weather it'll be as good as the current one only time will tell.

In the Backs well you have Johny, do you really need anything else???

 

[Dipper]

Originally posted by jeka
After our immense victory an number of key players are expected to announce their retirement.

More will probably not make the next world cup.

Johnston, Hill, Back, Dallagio, Greenwood, Dawson, will almost certainly not make the next the world cup.

Personally I thinkl the scrum-half position is going to be the hardest to fill. Simply because of the lack of world class talent coming through.

What do the rest of you think?

Bloody hell I started this same debate within about an hour of victory & I came to the conclusion that scrum half is a problem because there's no-one obviously coming through especially after the tragic death of Nick Duncombe earlier this year.

I also think the centres could be dodgy, it's traditionally an area where we do have problems, there's a few out there but I like the French trio of Jauzion, Marsh & Traille, I'd like a couple on those lines.

As for everywhere else it's all tickety-boo, the front row are all young enough to still be here next time plus there's few coming through.
We'll never be short of good locks.
Already the next back row is taking shape, Moody, Worsley & Forrester perhaps, although I don't think Worsley is quite as good as we need.
The back 3 positions should be good as well, the three we've got aren't exactly old plus there's Balshaw & the next Jason Robinson is at Gloucester by the name of Marcel Garvey.

 

[Booze Hound]

The hardest thing to replace will be the iron attitude from the likes of Johnson, Dallaglio and Back and the sheer, quiet quality of Richard Hill (although he mat still be around).

My calls at the moment all realise there are players not yet known out there.

Front Row: Could all still be there but Flatman is also a v.g prop and Titteral at Sale is a developing hooker. Other names might, of course come through. My call - unchanged.

2nd Row: Kay will only be 29/30. Borthwick and Palmer are fine players who would give different attributes to Johnson (more athletic - less powerful). Mind you, whose to say Johnno won't be there? My Call - Borthwick and Kay

Back Row: agree with Dipper. Plus there's a young openside at Leicester who they rate very highly (name escapes me). He's learning the trade from Back and Kronfeld so will be a sly bugger I reckon. With Dipper on Worsley - good man off the bench. Forrester could be the 8, or Chris Jones (mow playing there regularly) who is superb in the line out and gallopes round the field like a young gazelle. Mind you, there's no dearth of good back rows up here. My Call - Taking a flier - Leicester guy, Moody, Forrester.

Scrum half: Hall Charlton at Newcastle had a rough first season but is playing very well now - very long, very fast pass. Shame he has a name almost as bad as Elton Flatley Harry Ellis is rated at Leicester but I'm yet to be convinced. My Call - Wait and see, should know more in a year or so, big shame about Duncombe.

Fly Half: Given what I'm going to say about the centres I have a hankering that Clive may give Hodgson a run here. He's a very creative player and a good kicker from both hand and ground (not quite as good as Jonny in the latter). I think Clive wanted to try him there in the last 6N but wanted the Grand Slam more. My Call - I'd like the Hodgson option, especially if he could crank up his defence (not that he's weak there, just not JW).

Centre: Many options in the 13 shirt. Tindall is pretty mighty, Abbott has talent, Ollie Smith would have been there but for injury, Simpson-Daniel is tricky. Twelve is the problem but if Jonny went there it would take some pressure off him and allow him to use his creative skills better. Also there are other 10's in the ZP who will struggle to beat out Wilko and Hodgson for a place there and might look for the inside centre option. Andy Goode maybe. My Call - Smith at 13, Wilko or Tindall 12 depending on what happens inside.

Wings: Cohen will be around, so will Balshaw (a Woodie favourite) JRob may still be. Garvey (who might just be very special) and S-D. Sackey (London Paddies) has major pace as does Haughton and one or two others. Luger will only be 30. No probs there. My call - Assuming JRob has moved on - Balshaw and Garvey (whoosh)

15: Josh is et for a while but the likes of Walder have talent (covers 10 as well, great for the squad) and there's a young chap at Gloucester whose appeared this season - definite pace, sound under the bomb and a good hoof. My Call - Lewsey

The next World Cup sqaud could well see the youngsters from this time as the senior leaders.

I'm pretty hopeful for the future.

 

[Dipper]

I think the guy at Leicester is Will Skinner.

I know that Mike Teague's(what a player, the prototype for Richard Hill) nephew played fullback for Gloucester this season but I'm not sure he's the one you mean I think there's another young but slightly odler fullback there who's caught the eye.

I'm with you on Hodgson, I'm a bit of romantic & like a runner at fly half (spent years screaming for the Barrel to replace Andrew) I think Hodgson looks bloody good but obviously he ain't Jonny in the kicking or defensive department.

I really don't think it would work with Jonny at centre, that's not what he wants, I read that he wrote at about the age of 8 'I want to be out half for England', his dream isn't to be inside centre or '2nd 5/8th' for England, I think something would die in him if that happened.

I don't think Hodgson is strong enough to play at 12.

Really I hope Balshaw makes a comeback, even if it's just lots of time from the bench, that spell in about 2001 when him & Robisnon came into the side was magical, we may not have won the Grand Slam but it was still the most exciting exhilirating rugby I've seen from us, we were playing like the ABs play now.

 

[Booze Hound]

It's not Will Skinner, he's an 8. I'll try and find out.

I don't think Jonny would mind playing 12. The thing that really strikes me about Clive (same with Deano at Leicester) is the team ethos he's created. Jonny would buy into that.

Mike Teague - what an animal? Would love him off the bench with this team.

 

[jeka]

I agree with some of what is being said.

Forrester and Moody will become quality international back rowers.

Abbot and Smith will provide decent competion at Outside Centre, with Tindall probably remaining at inside. I really don't think Clive would move johnny anywhere from 10.

On the wings I'm a massive fan of Jason Robinson but he'll be 32 at the next world cup, maybe too old for an out and out winger. Lewsey is already a better full back IMO. I hope Balshaw does come through if only because I've played in school matches against him. But there is another chap Monye at Harlequins. Plays in the sevens for England I think who is very quick. So with , Cohen, Luger, Balshaw, Garvey, Moyne, Simpson-Daniel I don't think we'll be short of wingers.

 

[Booze Hound]

Sackey at London Paddies is getting good too.

Apologies Dip, I think it was Skinner who I was thinking about as the Tigers openside

The full back at Glaws is Goodridge.

 

[Dipper]

Originally posted by Booze Hound

Apologies Dip, I think it was Skinner who I was thinking about as the Tigers openside

Well it's a bit hard to follow at Leicester because (with the exception of Back) they all seem to play every position in the back row, Moody started off as openside didn't he?
I had a look at Leicester's match report from the weekend & Skinner came on for one of the locks so I started thinking that maybe he was a no8/Lock like Corry but thinking about it just as easily one of the back row might have gone to lock & Skinner went onto the back somewhere.

I suppose really when it comes to Leicester backrowers it's a good idea not to pigeonhole them too soon.

 

[The Passenger]

the fact the pack is aged Woodman (27), Thompson (25), Vickery (27), Kay (27), Johnson (33), Back (34), Hill (30) and Dallaglio (31), you would think that the last four are gone for sure, and with Kay, Woodman and Vickery all into their 30's by the next world cup, they may not still be in the picture by that stage.

Their most valuable players in order IMO are Johnson, Back, Vickery, Hill and Wilkinson.

2 of those 5 certainly won't be there next time around, Hill almost certainly wono't be, whilst Vickery could be on the downside of his career.