Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder:

This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread.

Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

Thanks.

 

[10571z]

You were talking about people, not the religion.

Um what?

 

[Gethelred]

We could easily go round in circles on a lot of those points, but the bolded is interesting.

Is it racist per se to have some overlap with arguments made by racists? Some would consider me racist for doing so, but I don't believe that can be justified beyond a 'vibe'. In the same way, there's some overlap between my views and those of opponents to trans rights, but I wouldn't accept that I'm bigoted towards trans people based on a 'feel'.

I have no problem with Arabs, Indonesians or Africans. I have a problem with Islam.

I mean, somewhat.

You're allowing them to disguise their racism by providing a non racist means of getting their ends. It's akin to booing Goodes for sliding into other player's legs while the person next to you is booing him because he's black; you are providing them legitimacy they don't deserve.

I shouldn't have to bring in the Lee Atwater of it all whenever I need to tell someone that just because what you're saying isn't actively racist that there isn't racism going on.

In this thread, you have 10571z discussing Islamic family sizes and the prospect of England becoming a majority Muslim country, directly alongside your posts. This is some pretty gross stuff.

 

[Gough]

It used to be the Catholics that were going to breed themselves into a majority and ruin it for us all, now it's the Muslims. There's not a lot of imagination among the religious bigots

 

[Gethelred]

It used to be the Catholics that were going to breed themselves into a majority and ruin it for us all, now it's the Muslims. There's not a lot of imagination among the religious bigots

Ah, but that was a cover for anti-Irish and Italian racism.

This is COMPLETELY different. Supposedly.

 

[10571z]

I mean, somewhat.

You're allowing them to disguise their racism by providing a non racist means of getting their ends. It's akin to booing Goodes for sliding into other player's legs while the person next to you is booing him because he's black; you are providing them legitimacy they don't deserve.

I shouldn't have to bring in the Lee Atwater of it all whenever I need to tell someone that just because what you're saying isn't actively racist that there isn't racism going on.

In this thread, you have 10571z discussing Islamic family sizes and the prospect of England becoming a majority Muslim country, directly alongside your posts. This is some pretty gross stuff.

What’s “gross” about it? Would you be ok to see laws being influenced by Islam if you were British in the future?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Ah, but that was a cover for anti-Irish and Italian racism.

This is COMPLETELY different. Supposedly.

There wasn't much going on between the Catholics and Protestants by the time the bulk of the Italians migrated to Australia.
Probably moreso in the USA.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

What’s “gross” about it? Would you be ok to see laws being influenced by Islam if you were British in the future?

Imagining things to be scared about so you can play the victim.

You sound like Pauline Hanson.

 

[10571z]

Imagining things to be scared about so you can play the victim.

You sound like Pauline Hanson.

What percentage do you believe it’ll reach prior to declining? I’d love to hear your thoughts?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

What percentage do you believe it’ll reach prior to declining? I’d love to hear your thoughts?

Please explain.

 

[sr36]

What percentage do you believe it’ll reach prior to declining? I’d love to hear your thoughts?

Doesn't matter. The things people spout about as fears regarding Islam have applied for Christianity in lots of places during lots of times. Christianity can be just as repressive as repressive Islamic countries. It's our secularism that has removed much of the discrimination that religion can bring. I'd be more concerned about a resurgence of the Christian right due to the much later numbers if you are actually concerned about inclusion of gender and diverse sexuality.

 

[Blue1980]

So you have to protest Yemen to protest Palestine...what a load of s**t.

Israel must be getting desperate, their bots are starting to flood the internet with nonsensical rubbish.

It’s the whataboutism “common other countries can do genocide why can’t we?”

Thing is our govts in the western world are funding Israel to do what they are doing to Gaza.


Mind you they also turn a blind eye to Saudis in Yemen, but that tells you all you need to know about US and allies. It’s not about anything altruistic or moral, just whatever is more profitable. Israel they can just say anything said bad about Israel is anti semetic while they just stay silent on Saudi Arabia.

 

[10571z]

Please explain.

Islam has been growing in the UK and Europe. It’s rising and going to continue to rise.

Do you think it’ll just continue rising or peak and decline

 

[Blue1980]

Do people believe there is no “to much” Islam in australia? Or do you think numbers need to be capped as such?

wtf why? Also how? What is an acceptable percentage of Islam? How does one measure the amount and when we are reaching a “tipping point”?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Islam has been growing in the UK and Europe. It’s rising and going to continue to rise.

Do you think it’ll just continue rising or peak and decline

Maybe their god is more powerful, more virile, more fertile than yours?

 

[10571z]

Doesn't matter. The things people spout about as fears regarding Islam have applied for Christianity in lots of places during lots of times. Christianity can be just as repressive as repressive Islamic countries. It's our secularism that has removed much of the discrimination that religion can bring. I'd be more concerned about a resurgence of the Christian right due to the much later numbers if you are actually concerned about inclusion of gender and diverse sexuality.

You’d be ok with the UK becoming 30% Islamic if you lived there for example?

 

[10571z]

wtf why? Also how? What is an acceptable percentage of Islam? How does one measure the amount and when we are reaching a “tipping point”?

Easy question. Would you be ok with Australian being 40% Muslim?

 

[CM86]

Easy question. Would you be ok with Australian being 40% Muslim?

No.


Easy question for you.
Would you be ok with Australian being 40% of Middle Eastern decent?

 

[Blue1980]

It’s quite possible? Why is it not.

Call me naive, but I’m willing to bet not over 100% of the Australian population will be Islam by 2100.

I will stick my neck out and say that the total of all religious affiliations will never exceed 100% of the population.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Easy question. Would you be ok with Australian being 40% Muslim?

Your job is to befriend them and corrupt them, so their belief in our society is stronger than their religion.

Hopefully 4th generation Musim's will be like " Grand-Dad's going off about the Jihad, anyone else coming to the footy with me"?

 

[10571z]

No.


Easy question for you.
Would you be ok with Australian being 40% of Middle Eastern decent?

Why not?

No I wouldn’t be, far too much immigration for that to happen.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Call me naive, but I’m willing to bet not over 100% of the Australian population will be Islam by 2100.

I will stick my neck out and say that the total of all religious affiliations will never exceed 100% of the population.

Are you counting visitors?

 

[Blue1980]

We're quick to target fundamentalist Christians and even the US over backward religious views on sexuality and womens rights. Yet surveys show attitudes of many Muslim majority nations to be far more backward and unaccepting than the US.

It seems to me that many give Islam and Muslims a free pass because they're not white or Western.

Islam isn't a race and I have no problem criticising it - I think all organised religion is backwards and dangerous, especially the Abrahamic versions.

While Christianity has been largely tamed in Australian society, it still punches above it's weight in politics. Islam has not yet been tamed and secularised to the same extent and I believe there are valid reasons to be concerned about its potential to influence our way of life. That's being swept under the carpet because we don't want to apper racist towards a religion.

Fundamentalism of any religion isn’t good. I think it’s more people try to make out Islam is uniquely worse than other religions in that regard.

I don’t think we have a problem with fundamentalist Islam in Australia, certainly no greater an issue rhan fundamentalist Christian’s (I’d argue far less here)

 

[sr36]

You’d be ok with the UK becoming 30% Islamic if you lived there for example?

It depends on whether they were secular or not.
If they were secular - no problem. If they're fundamentalist - big problem. Same regarding secular and fundamentalist Christians or Jews.

 

[CM86]

Why not?

No I wouldn’t be, far too much immigration for that to happen.

What about 20% of Middle Eastern decent?
I'm not talking about immigration.

So you're against 40% of Australia ever being of Middle Eastern decent?

 

[Blue1980]

Anecdotal stories don't negate my points. Surveys of majority Muslim nations frequently show low acceptance of diverse sexualities and womens rights - some nations have concerningly high acceptance of honour killings also. This is not a benign religion.

I find it easy to get along with fundamentalist Christians and the Muslims I know personally; that's no issue for me. In large groups, they're able to influence policy to our detriment - that's the problem.

It's hardly controversial to say negative things about Christian groups who have backwards attitudes, yet seems taboo to do the same to Muslims. I don't see how it can be considered punching down when Islam has 2 billion adherents.

I don't really care what someone believes if they're not using it to control me. When imaginary friends are forced down our throats is when I take issue - and I think it's naive to not see the potential for this to go very bad.

How about Muslims living in western countries, how fundamental are they?

I think we will find a common thread here…